I think its interesting reading and something people should be familiar with and thats the history of Islam and some of the major events that took place through out Islamic history.
I'll begin with something thats been on my mind for that few days 'The Origins of the Sunni/Shia split' i've very sketchy on exactly what happened during the time period after the death of the prophet(pbuh) so bear with me.
Since the death of the holy prophet(pbuh) there has been a debate as to the rightful succession to Caliph (Successor to the prophet(pbuh)).
From what i know Hasrat Ali (ra) became the fourth and possibly (IMO) last of the Caliphs after Hasrat Abu Bakr(ra), Hasrat Umar(ra) and Hasrat Usman (ra)... (i hope thats correct... pls say so if thats incorrect). Now as far as i know Shia felt that Hasrat Ali (ra) should have been the first Caliph and that the Caliphate (is that even a word?) should only pass down to direct descendants of the holy prophet(pbuh) (often refered to as ...i hope im getting this right 'Ahl Al Bayt' or "people of the house[of the prophet(buh)]".
Im a little sketchy on what took place next. When Hasrat Ali (ra) finally became Caliph he was opposed by Hasrat Aisha (ra) (wife of the prophet(pbuh)) for some reason which has eludes me still. Help me out if you know. Apparently there was a big battle and Hasrat Aisha's (ra) forces were defeated.
Soon after Hasrat Ali (ra) was involved with another battle against Mu'awiya Ummayad (Hasrat Usmas's cousin) where in battle (atleast this is what i heard) Mu'awiya's soldiers stuck verses of the Quran onto the ends of their spears so that Hasrat Ali's soldiers would refuse to fight them. Apparently Hasrat Ali struck some kind of compromise (details of which i'd be interested in if anyone knows) with Mu'awiyah, but this shocked some of his hard-core supporters who regarded it as a betrayal and struck him down and Hasrat Ali (ra) passed away.
I know that Hasrat Ali's (ra) sons were both killed some how, but of this im unsure... and im guessing it has something to do with the death of Hasrat Ali (ra) as well as the death of his sons that lead to the Sunni-Shia split.
Any info would be greatly helpful.
Just out of interest if anyone knows, whats the difference (practice wise) between Sunni's and Shias?
Bismillah
Unbridgable Divide is an excellent book available on the internet. I believe Ulama from south africa have compiled htis book and I refer interested persons to that book.
The doctrinal differences between Truth and Falsehood are explained clearly in this booklet.
Become obedient to the Chief, Muhammad salallahu alayhi wa sallam, so ALL chiefs become obedient to you.
there's lot of diff types of Shia
some more extreme then others
my aunty is a shia...she opens her fast at a diff time, azaan in her area sounds diff (in pakistan), she does Mahtam in Muhurrum, her dad reads prayer on some stone thing...
she's kinda superstitious,
nice lady
reads prayer on a stone? wats that all about?
I heard that they believe in only one Kalma (the first one) and dont regard the other five as Kalmaa, but still read them during their namaaz. I also heard somewhere that their version of the Quran is different and has like 40 chapters compared to our 30?
Not sure how tru that is.
Keep the information coming people... especially on the history part... as that the main point of this thread.
Back in BLACK
yeh their quran is a bit diff
they have 35 parts instead of 30
and the reason why some pray on a stone is cos they believe its importnat for the head to touch the Earth whilst in prayer
if a persons quran is different to the True Quran then that person is not from islam.
Denying a single quranic verse is kufr and this is accepted.
Adding verses to quran is also kufr.
If i explicitly make mention of takfeer others will attack me but ask yourselves those who believe that shia have different quran that usoolan ie fundamentally this is a religious difference that cannot be brigded
Become obedient to the Chief, Muhammad salallahu alayhi wa sallam, so ALL chiefs become obedient to you.
Not ALL Shia's have different Quran....
I REFUSE to discuss the shia any further.
Become obedient to the Chief, Muhammad salallahu alayhi wa sallam, so ALL chiefs become obedient to you.
Why take part in the discussion in the first place?
There are many sects of Shia. Many different beliefs. We cannot know all of them without a lot of study, so I think its not a good idea labelling them all.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
nice topic seraph!
lilsis mentioned the reason behind y they pray on a stone - usually this stone is from Karbalah, a holy site for them (where Husayn, his family and followers were murdered by Yazid's army).
the majority of shi'as have the exact same Quran as us Sunnis. in fact i have never heard of this 35 chapter quran. however, its worth noting that this refers to a difference in the number of 'man-made' chapters i.e. Juz, as opposed to the actual surahs which were revealed, therefore i dont see how this is a fundamental change to the Quran - it would not involve the addition or removal of a single verse.
in terms of history, here's all i know about the Sunni-Shi'a divide:
After the death of the Prophet (s.a.w), Abu-Bakr (r.a) (who had been leading prayers whilst the Prophet (s.a.w) was ill) was elected to be the first Khalifah. From this point on, Muslims were divided on the issue of the Khalifate (although they weren't officially divided until much later on). Sunnis acknowledge that Ali (r.a) gave his allegiance to Abu-Bakr (albeit a little later than other companions), whereas Shi'as argue that the latter was elected whilst Ali was busy preparing for the Prophet (s.a.w)'s burial, and therefore Ali did not get a say in the election of Abu-Bakr.
Shi'as do not recognise Abu-Bakr (r.a), Umar (r.a) or Uthman (r.a) as being leaders of the Ummah - they only accept Ali (r.a) being a Khalifah, and the subsequent imaamate of those who were direct descendants of the Prophet (s.a.w) (Ahl al-Bait). In contrast, Sunnis hail all 4 as "Khulafaa-al-Rashidun" (the rightly-guided Caliphs) and believe that a Khalifah should be elected according to his piety and good reputation.
u mentioned the Battle of the Camel seraph - that which took place between A'isha (r.a) and Ali (r.a). the rift took hold after Uthman (r.a) was murdered in his house by mutineers (who some claim were Khawarij/Kharijites). around the same time, there were problems with governers posted abroad (notably Mu'awiyah, the then governer in Damascus, Syria). Ali (r.a) felt it was important to sort out the upset in Damascus first, whereas many Muslims were more intent on the murderers of Uthman (r.a) being found and brought to justice. These people took their concern to A'isha (r.a) (who happened to share their view) in the hope that she would convince Ali (r.a) of the greater importance of bringing the murderers to justice. Hence this rift formed, and the fitnah-mongers i.e. Khawarij, managed to stir up the situation so that eventually one side faced the other in the Battle of the Camel. (thats a condensed version, this battle is a topic in itself!)
As u mentioned, Mu'awiyah and Ali (r.a) eventually faced eachother in battle, and Mu'awiyah's side was losing. thats when his men decided to show the Quran as a way of asking for a truce. it was the Khawarij who felt thus 'betrayed' by Ali (r.a) and they were responsible for his murder.
in order to dispel any misconceptions, its worth noting that the Khawarij were a seperate group, not connected to either the Sunnis or Shi'as. they are the perfect example of what we'd today call a 'fanatical extremist group'.
the incidents surrounding the deaths of hassan and husayn (r.a) are a little harder to condense, mayb i'll go into that in another post, or u cud check it out on the net, there's plenty to read.
Beliefs and Practice-wise....
- most Shi'as believe in the 'Twelve Imaams', some believe this number to be seven - the 12th (or 7th) is meant to be Imaam Mahdi.
- they have a minor pilgrimage (ziyarah) to Ghadir al-Khumm (a pool between Makkah and Medina) where it is claimed the Prophet (s.a.w) stopped on his Farewell Pilgrimage to appoint Ali (r.a) as the future Imaam.
- they break their fast when the sun has completely set (and hence later than when Sunnis do so).
- Shi'a women have more right of inheritance than Sunni women because they are reminded of the high status of Fatima (r.a)
[size=9]I NEVER WORE IT BECAUSE OF THE TALIBAN, MOTHER. I LIKE THE [b]MODESTY[/b] AND [b]PROTECTION[/b] IT AFFORDS ME FROM THE EYES OF MEN.[/size] [url=http://www.adherents.com/lit/comics/Dust.html]Dust, X-Men[/url]
I thought the battle did not take place, just a face-off?
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
we've already discussed this before, a lil' while back.
Aisha (r.a) and Ali (r.a) did not intend to fight, but the Khawarij (yes, them again!) sent over some of their men in the night and attacked the muslims on Aisha's side. Hence the latter fought back and amid the mayhem Sahaabis were killed before both Ali (r.a) and Aisha (r.a) realised what was going on. Aisha especially was overcome with remorse at her actions and apologised to Ali (r.a) before returning to Medina.
[size=9]I NEVER WORE IT BECAUSE OF THE TALIBAN, MOTHER. I LIKE THE [b]MODESTY[/b] AND [b]PROTECTION[/b] IT AFFORDS ME FROM THE EYES OF MEN.[/size] [url=http://www.adherents.com/lit/comics/Dust.html]Dust, X-Men[/url]
sorry, I must pay more attention. Thanks.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
lol, well u R the admin of the forum, so i ges we can let u off
[size=9]I NEVER WORE IT BECAUSE OF THE TALIBAN, MOTHER. I LIKE THE [b]MODESTY[/b] AND [b]PROTECTION[/b] IT AFFORDS ME FROM THE EYES OF MEN.[/size] [url=http://www.adherents.com/lit/comics/Dust.html]Dust, X-Men[/url]
Thanx for filling in the blanks there Aasiyah.
I've been doing some reading (or trying to anyway: long story wont get into it) and i read that Hasrat Ali's (ra) elder son Hassan accepted a pension in return for not pursuing his claim to the caliphate. He died within a year, allegedly poisoned. Hasrat Ali's(ra) younger son Hussein agreed to put his claim to the caliphate on hold until Mu'awiya's death.
However, when Mu'awiya finally died, his son Yazid made a claim to the caliphate. Hussein led an army against Yazid but, hopelessly outnumbered, he and his men were slaughtered at the Battle of Karbala (in modern day Iraq). Hussein's infant son, Ali, survived so the line continued. The division between the Shia and what came to be known as the Sunni was set.
If anyone has anything else to add to this: regarding the Shia and Sunni split please do, as i think its important to know some of this history.
Back in BLACK
Just a few mistekes there Seraph. Mainly, Imam Hussain (ra) did not lead an army against Yazid. It was his family moving to kufa, as the residents had invited him to be their governor.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
Thnx for correctn me Ed.
Back in BLACK
eh u mean admin, wakey wakey. do u post whilst asleep lol
Well since Zahid Maqbool was quoted as 'Ed in the papers, maybe I should also be...
Ed, You're fired. Long live the new 'Ed
:twisted:
Erm... hate the name so I shall be henceforth greeted as Admin.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
lol, sorry totally my mistake. :shock:
and yes angel i was half asleep when i was posting that.
Need sleep... hate work... hav to get up really early... must work need cash...
Back in BLACK
lol u in a trance or somethin , learn to take it easy.. when you get worked up like that it aint healthy for ya