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"feet" - u automatically think humans
horse "feet" are actually called hooves.
so i think my point still stands.
:/
"How many people find fault in what they're reading and the fault is in their own understanding" Al Mutanabbi
You say things without proofs?
Anyway, here's a little something I read on the subject:
A Maturidi scholar (Zabidi al-Hanafi, d.~1200AH) mentioned,
Your saying, ‘we take it by its literal meaning, and it is incomprehensible’ is contradictory in itself. If you take by its literal meaning, then ‘as-saq’ mentioned in Suratal-Qalam (ayah 42), is a ’shin’ which is a part made up of flesh, bones, muscle, and nerves. If you take by that the literal meaning, then you have committed blasphemy, and if you deny it, then how do you claim to take by the literal meaning?
The great Shafi’i traditionist al-Khattabi (d. 388AH) said about the texts pertaining to Allah’s Shin,
This Hadeeth is one where our scholars dreaded saying something, so they passed it on in accordance with the literal meaning of the wording (fa ajrawhu ‘ala dhahiri lafdhihi). They did not explore the depths of its meaning, in accordance with their Madhab of ceasing to give tafseer to anything the essence of which is not encompassed with knowledge (al-Asma wal-Sifat, al-Bayhaqi)
So if scholars dare not play with why should you? (I assume you're not a scholar- just a street scholar) Islam's boundaries are far and wide reaching, but keep within them.
Correct!
We should just leave it at that and hope we get to see Allah SWT on the day.
No one is denying that there is a mention of hands and feet etc.
What the question is, is are those hands like our hands? 5 fingers, five toes etc etc? Does God need them to walk? Are the hands used to pick things up? or are all of these things physicalities that are something that has been given to ceration and would be too limiting for God?
This is a deep subject and I doubt you have enough of a grasp of it to really be arguing - more just a zeal for argument.
Do you understand the concept that space is created? by space I do not mean "outer space", but space? even the nothingness is created. the gaps between two objects... created. the objects, created. their size, created.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
whether its called feet or hooves, its the same thing at the end of the day it is the horses feet, in this case horses also have a face, so by saying face of a horse are you humanising the horse? no your not as a horses face is completely different to a human, just like that allah's face is completely different to human, do yuo think muhammad SAW would say/mention allah's face as a metaphor, second in a hadith muhammad SAW says in the day of judgement allah will not show his to 3 types of people, again does tha sound liek a metaphor aswell? or have you sufis fabricated and innoated something out of that aswell, as expected you probably have made something false out of it or never even heard of this hadith, so your point was never valid to start with. I can show more examples but dont see the point.
dude your pathetic, get your research done,do you know who ibn tamiyyah is? if yes then even ibn tamiyyah agreed that allah ahs face hands and feet, not only him ibn katheer another great scholar also agreed with this and gave their evidence, the only people who dont agree are you sufis the liers and innovaters, other then that the rest have no problem with this, and these 2 scholars i mentioned are one of the best not dodgy like your so called deviants. and whats the point of knowing nothing was created? i know that, first their was allah then nothing, then he created his throne and placed it above water, then came many other things until it ends with the creation of aadam AS.
as for the earth and the rest it took 7 periods.
Yes I know who ibn taymiyyah is. I also know that he is not the founder of a madhab, so doing blind taqleed is not necessary.
And... NONE of that post contradicts what I wrote. You just threw around accusations hoping that your lack of knowledge and lack of information provided is overlooked.
"do your research" is not a valid criticism.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
well i never said ibn tamiyyah is a founder of madhab did i? your just saying that.... why i dont know dont care, and the whole arguement of this is on the face of allah hands feet, so your the one who seemed to got sidetracked to somewhere else, as for ibn tamiyyah i gave you the evidence of scholars who have agreed to the fact that allah has hands feet face, i proved my point and you totally ignored that in this post, well not my problem as its obvious this debate is over, i said do your research cause you think allah has no face and yet i showed you someone who clearly stated that allah does have a face hands and feet, and not only that but theirs evidence for this aswell, so im not the one lackining information or knowlege,as i have given the infomation, the daleel, in other words i done my bit to prove you wrong, now as muhammad SAW said to khalid ibn walid, if your smart then surely you must see the truth now.
Will you stop being rude?
If you don't like it here, leave but expect to be disagreed with if people disagree with you :doubt:
Anyway, i thought it was obvious that the eyes, hands, throne of God were all metaphorical. If God is omniscient, that means he's all knowing and all seeing but just because God can see all, does that mean that there are Physical God's eyes everywhere? No of course not, because physical eyes would take up time and space so surely we would be able to see/feel them?
And about the Brelvi thing. My friend said, don't know how true it is, that the thing that distinguishes Brelvi's is that Brelvi's think it's okay to celebrate the Prophet (saww)'s birthday and others don't.
I think it's okay, i think the birth of the greatest man of all time Should be celebrated tbh.
Does that make me a Brelvi?
#Before you look at the thorns of the rose , look at it's beauty. Before you complain about the heat of the sun , enjoy it's light. Before you complain about the blackness of the night, think of it's peace and quiet... #
i already wrote all the evidence of the hands face anf foot of allah, so i dont see the point of repeating myself, just read ibn tamiyyah and ibn kathirs book where they clearly state they agree with this, as for milad un nabi i already gave the evidence of it being haram, major scholars including ibn tamiyyah who also rejected it, so again no need to repeat my self over and over again. check my milad un nabi thread for the evidence:http://w3.hidemyass.com/index.php?q=aHR0cDovL3d3dy50aGVyZXZpdmFsLmNvLnVr...
And surely everyone here know why im here to educate you about sufism and barelvi.
You're not going about it the right way.
By being rude you're just alienating everyone and so naturally it's hard to take much you say seriously.
I read all your 'evidence' and i'm still not convinced, and you must realise that if it was that 'obvious' everyone would believe it.
a} I don't know why you're being all literal and fundamentalist christian-y about it because it's not like EVERYthing in the Qur'an is ever taken completely seriously &
b} Why do you think that EVERYone has to agree with you when you've supplied a few quotes which could STILL be taken different ways.
I can't believe there is a whole GROUP devoted to the Birthday of the Prophet. But in any case, what's Your problem if people want to celebrate it? If it's a sin, it's their sin and i can think of much bigger sins than celebrating the Birth of Prophet Muhammad saww.
#Before you look at the thorns of the rose , look at it's beauty. Before you complain about the heat of the sun , enjoy it's light. Before you complain about the blackness of the night, think of it's peace and quiet... #
my problem is people trying to corrupt the deen with bidaah, and milad un nabi is one of them. So if i see anyone doing that i will do my best to make them stop, and its not myopinion that i want people to agree, its the true thing which i want people to follow, the quran and sunnah, not innovation made by people.
And not everything in quran is taken seriously? so why did allah reveal it to make jokes, if you dont take the quran seriously then surely youll be lost, which is why sufism is a lost cause today. Even the nonmuslims take their holybook seriously and you as muslims not doing that is a disgrace.
You took that COMPLETELY out of context.
I'm sure you know full well that when i said it wasn't taken 'seriously' i meant every single word isn't usually taken literally.
You talk about the deen being corrupted by Bid'ah and Sufis, but that wasn't a very Muslim thing you just did.
Surely the deen is in more danger of being corrupted by people who go around forcing their opinions, twisting words and being rude than from people who think the birth of the prophet was an important time for Muslims and people who commit themselves completely for Allah?
#Before you look at the thorns of the rose , look at it's beauty. Before you complain about the heat of the sun , enjoy it's light. Before you complain about the blackness of the night, think of it's peace and quiet... #
Its a valid debate whether it is ok to do milad al nabi or whether it is bidda - however the view against doing it is that
1. Prophet PBUH did not do any such thing as milad al nabi (however people say that prophet fasted on a certain day - yet fasting is presrcibed for us in ramadan and can be done all throughout the year)
2. to this day i have not come across any valid sai hadith proving it to be right to celebrate
3. looking at the sahaba and khalifs after the prophet Muhammad PBUH passed away it can be seen in history that it was not celebrated there either
yet .... there will be people who attend the mosque on that day and listen to seerah of Muhammad PBUH ... i do not know if that is valid or not but it seems better than some other ways in which people celebrate milad al nabi .
and also Awlia i appreciate that you are trying to educate everyone here about sufi and berelvis .... however you are going about in slightly the wrong way ... please calm down and explain what you are saying in short paragraphs as not everyone can read long posts and decipher what is being said hence there is no point in debating. thnx
seeing brother st786 concluding the topic very welli dont need to say anymore on milad un nabi.
Now to your response:
firstly their are parts in the quran where it says one thing but means something else, this things have already been narated by muhammad SAW his sahabas and one of the most important books in islam tafsir ibn kathir, if you look at the tafsir ibn kathir it clearly states those verses which are like that, and the ones sufis usually state arent the ones that are like that. So why dont you show me verses which you think are like that and i'll see if its correct or not and give you the evidence to what i say aswell.
BUT their are verses in the quran that cannot be like that, such as when allah describes himself, these things cannot be described in a metaphric way, because why would allah sue himself and such important info i a metaphoric way, and again as i already gave the proof of ibn tamiyyah ibn kathir and more importantly muhammad SAW have already confirmed and provided the evidence of the face of allah so theirfore i dont plan on to repeat myself again, if you want to go through it then read the previous posts.
Second last i checked its sufis who innovated things into the deen and did the damage,you said people like me are twisting words, show me a single thing, ruling of islam people like me twisted, cause i can show you a hundread things which sufis have twisted and fabricated over the years. Now show me what have i twisted and fabricated, and i will then show you the amount of things sufi twisted.
i'llsee it tomorow as its night i need to go to bed.
That's what you don't get.
I'm not trying to prove anything and i'm saying that nothing is correct or incorrect.
Just throwing around ideas, i don't think there's anything wrong with keeping an open mind before you adopt a stance. Also that makes your opinion in the end an all the more knowledgeable one.
Everything's not an argument, sometimes it's just a discussion :]
#Before you look at the thorns of the rose , look at it's beauty. Before you complain about the heat of the sun , enjoy it's light. Before you complain about the blackness of the night, think of it's peace and quiet... #
What do you think people do to celebrate the prophet (saw)'s birthday? Tbhey do exactly the things that have been recommended by Islam - Things like fasting, like praying more, by remembering ,by teaching, by learning more etc.
If someone decides to do something haraam to celebrate the prophet's birthday, I will agree with you and say that that is haraam.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
Alot more than that happens on the streets like mad parades which have no significance what so ever and a get together just for corrupt molvis to have a meal
No, you're not a brelvi. I doubt it anyway. It would be difficult for that to be the case...
from two of the major groups in the indian subcontinent, one believes that celebrating the Prophet's birthday is rewardworthy, the other, that it isn't. From there, things have become more polemic where some from one might say that you must celebrate, while some from the other might say "no, you cannot celebrate it at all".
Either way, that is only one small part of it all, and there be other differences too.
All minor. IMO. The majoirty of these opinions have been passing through the muslims for centuries, the the groups just taken opposing interpretations, that have both historically been thought of as valid.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
There is nothing wrong with having a meal - as long as the food is halaal.
The Prophet
when he first preached, gave a banquet. He fed the people (his relatives), and THEN he gave them the message. Providing food on occasions of da'wah etc is following the sunnah of the Prophet (saw).
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
nothing is incorrect or corect? and its the opinion, so your saying theirs nothing wrong or right in islam? and you jsut follow your opinion, then in this case any muslims can go out and commit sins and say hey this is my opinion of islam that their is nothing wrong with this, your trying to say that? in islam their are right things and wrong things, their are the halal and the haram, and following islam is not about your opinion or my opinionm you follow the rules and law which allah and muhammad SAW has given, not what youthink is correct or not the opinions you want to follow, but what athe quran and sunnah says.
And what ive been saying is NOT my opinion it is the law which is from allah and his messenger SAW, as i have shown you the evidence these are the rules which allah and his messenger SAW have given and we ahve to follow them, and milad un nabi is one that has been ordered not to.
Urgh. :doubt:
#Before you look at the thorns of the rose , look at it's beauty. Before you complain about the heat of the sun , enjoy it's light. Before you complain about the blackness of the night, think of it's peace and quiet... #
I see Awlia has nothing to say in reply to this!
P.S when did i say i was a sufi?
please don't assume stuff.
"How many people find fault in what they're reading and the fault is in their own understanding" Al Mutanabbi
Yous must be totally lost, i already gave my evidence of this statement, anyway for the schoars above i have never seen their view but it is jsut another easy refute for me, first of all when showing the comment of scholars you have to see their evidence, how strong their statement is, the 2 scholars mentioned above statement is obviously weak compared to the evidence provided by other schoars and their statement,
Now starting with the great scholar ibn tamiyya, he has agreed the fact that allah has face hands and feat, in sahih muslim it is stated that allah has a veil that covers his face, it also says allah will remove his veil and everything will perrish accept his face, bhukari, allah will put his foot on hell fire and the hell will say it doesnt need anymore people.
again another thing not only manjority but major scholars accepted and agree with and when commented on this hadith celarly stated its valid. check these explanation is sahih muslim and bhukari if necessery.
And allah also says in the quran that he created aadam AS with his own hands.
So my evidence has been put, and its priety obivous whos evidence is stronger.
If you've never seen their view before how can u say its weak?
"How many people find fault in what they're reading and the fault is in their own understanding" Al Mutanabbi
i have never seen their statements before until now, and i have already researched them checked not only theirs but many others who disagree with this, and compared it to the evidence shown by them with those scholars who believe that allah has a face their evidence, and it was quite openly clear the scholars who agree allah has a face not only gave better evidence but also were able to back it up with quran and sunnah.
because the evidence provided by the scholars who have spoken about this
but why do u think it would be silly for Allah swt to descirbe using metaphors? whats wrong with that?
"How many people find fault in what they're reading and the fault is in their own understanding" Al Mutanabbi
it depends on the verse, their are certain vesres metaphors are used BUT certain verses that are not, when allah describes himself it is defentely amongst those verses that metaphors are not used.
Such as when allah says the sky of the heavens is the throne of allah, is that a metaphor? no its not. When allah describes himself its the same as that, not metaphor but a direct statement.
how do u know its not a metaphor tho? :/
"How many people find fault in what they're reading and the fault is in their own understanding" Al Mutanabbi
What a terrible confession. Bless.
FIRST FIND OUT WHAT SHIRK IS !
AND THEN YOU WILL FIND THAT YOUR CLAIM IS FALSE !
AND YOU SHOULD FEAR ALLAH WHEN MAKING FALSE CLAIMS !
AND CAUSING UPSET TO MUSLIMS !
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