http://www.therevival.co.uk/forum/events/5071 < Wondering about all your opinions on abortion?
Tbh i kind of find it a bit odd, people saying "unborn children" and "it doesn't matter at what stage they are in the womb, they're still human"
They're not 'unborn children' or humans YET, they're foetuses
Islamically, are we supposed to consider them children? They have no organs or anything... what makes them human?
If i argued against abortion, for the sake of the child, i would argue from the viewpoint of someone who respects the sanctity of life, the potentiality of that... 'being' of having life is what's important, but i would definitely make some kind of distinction between an actual baby in the womb and a foetus at a very early stage of "living"... Is an acorn an oak tree?
"millions of babies killed" Babies? Killed?
What also confused me was: "Can you please help us as Islamic supporters in our campaign to stop the killing of thousands of innocent unborn children through abortion"
I thought Muslims believe that every human's date of death was written in stone,God knows and nothing can be done about it- i.e we all die when we're supposed to die? It's annoying trying to word this without sounding silly, but i'll have to try: why are people trying to stop what's inevitable?
Which brings me onto... Why interfere?
When i posted on the forum i said
"But i mean... these people getting abortions know what they're doing...
If anything, shouldn't people be making an effort to make sure they make an informed decision?
What's the point of protesting and making these people who are probably already emotionally distraught feel even worse?
I thought we were all responsible for our own actions and only those?
Why not protest for Gaza....they actually WANT you to."
And i do strongly believe that...
That more effort should go into educating these probably young and probably frightened girls so they make an educated decision, not scaring them even more...
It's all well and good saying "they shouldn't have gotten pregnant anyway, why did they have sex"
but it's done, and i thought Islam endorsed the idea of forgiveness? Once it's done, shouldn't the effort go into the sort of... damage limitation than make it worse?
Comments
using that argument, are you saying suicide is acceptable in the eyes of God?
abortion is haram as far as i'm aware. only case when it's allowed is when the woman has been raped or if her life is in danger i.e. she can die.
The suicide thing confuses me a lot too.
like "If someone who was going to commit suicide who didn't, would they have died?"
but obviously that's ridiculous, because they'd be alive because they DIDN'T commit suicide so they'd be alive. For example if i was about to stab myself but didn't, i'd be alive...
It's difficult for me to word it, but it's a whole different subject
And anyway, that's not a claim i'm making- it's something i'm putting out there, if i was sure of any of this i wouldn't be making an issue of it.
#Before you look at the thorns of the rose , look at it's beauty. Before you complain about the heat of the sun , enjoy it's light. Before you complain about the blackness of the night, think of it's peace and quiet... #
I would like to come at this from a different angle and suggest if a body was just that - a body. organs. an organic computer.
A "human" as we understand it would be a soul that is attached to that organ.
I am sure I have read that a "soul is put into a featus after 40 days" - no idea if that 40 is a literal 40, or it means "at some point".
I would also argue against the point that a baby is not a baby til its born. Yes, at the starts its just a lump of cells, but it is functional well before the actual birth.
While early abortion is a big subject with emotions running high on both sides, another issue is late abortions - abortions at a stage where if the baby was born, it would most like live a long life. Would that then not be murder?
You know after they remove kidney stones, some people get to keep them in a jar? Maybe the same stuff should happen here? Allow it as it is, but then show them what was terminated.
While life and death is in the hands of Allah (swt), we have also been given some control over it, and while whatever we do will technically be "according to God's will" because he gave us free will, that does not mean it will be right or wanted or allowed by the laws laid down by God.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
Agreed, but abortion is not "damage limitation" - that is potentially digging a bigger whole to hide the previous smaller one.
People need to get over the "scandal" that humans are not angels.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
No you misunderstood...
The abortion wasn't damage limitation, i was referring to the damage limitation AFTER the abortion
#Before you look at the thorns of the rose , look at it's beauty. Before you complain about the heat of the sun , enjoy it's light. Before you complain about the blackness of the night, think of it's peace and quiet... #
i disagree.
the woman got herself pregnant and now she must deal with the consequence. yes islam is all for forgiveness, God is the one that forgives (we too have a role to play in this depending on the action and if we were hurt but ultimately this is up to God), bottom line, abortions are haram.
hmmmm, and while whatever we do will technically be "according to God's will". is that your thinking are did you get it from somewhere? i disagree. free will means free will. God has given it so that doesn't mean whatever happens is according to Gods will. I'll use the example of suicide again, if someone decided to commit suicide are you saying that was Gods plan?
Don't get what you mean. The sin has been hidden. What damage limitation would be done afterwards? The people could potentially go on as before with no change to their lives etc, or they can ammend their ways... it's their choice, but that is not "damage limitation"...
Am I missing something?
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
You don't disagree - you are saying the same thing I did!
As for "God's will"/"God's plan", well he has given us free will, but he has also given guidelines as to how we should live our lives. What matters is what we do with the free will in order to follow/not follow the guidelines.
It is an article of faith that both Good and Bad are from God.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
Once again, you don't disagree.
As I said, abortion is not damage limitation (its an escalation - I gave the example of digging a bigger whole to hide a smaller one...), but even here apparently the meaning of damage limitation was different from what was originally intended by Rawrry.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
ok. thanks for telling me what i think.
No probs, you're welcome.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.