"Admin" wrote:

And that's not a ten minue job. It takes time.

I wanst suggesting that it took 10 mins :roll:

these things can even take years-

but if u want to get a job done properly- shudnt rush it

"MuslimSisLilSis" wrote:

"Admin" wrote:

And that's not a ten minue job. It takes time.

I wanst suggesting that it took 10 mins :roll:

these things can even take years-

but if u want to get a job done properly- shudnt rush it

So it defeats the purpose of banning the group then.

It's not very difficult to recognise the main protagonists.

If any dodgy geezers keep joining up together - you know they're up to no good.

Hizb Man Sacked From The Guardian

Trainee journalist Dilpazier Aslam had his contract with the Guardian terminated today.

The move followed an internal inquiry into Aslam's membership of the political organisation Hizb ut-Tahrir.

A statement said: "The Guardian now believes continuing membership of the organisation to be incompatible with his continued employment by the company."

"Mr Aslam was asked to resign his membership but has chosen not to. The Guardian respects his right to make that decision but has regretfully concluded that it had no option but to terminate Mr Aslam's contract with the company."

Aslam said: "I am shocked by the manner in which this whole affair has been handled. My treatment throws up issues which will be of grave concern to all journalists. I am currently taking legal advice."

[url=http://www.mpacuk.org/content/view/6/845/105/]MPAC[/url]

it'll be intresting to see what the courts make of all of this

Breaking News: Tony Blair; HT Will Be Banned, Mosques Closed & Palestinian Groups Silenced!

London has been nicknamed "Londonistan" - centre for militant Islam - by some critics who believe the UK has been too liberal towards radical clerics.

At his final news conference before his summer break, Mr Blair said British hospitality had been abused and people should know the "rules of the game are changing".

"People now understand that when we warned of the terrorist threat it wasn't scaremongering it was real, he said.

The Hizb ut Tahrir organisation and Al-Muhajiroun - or its successor group - are to be banned, Mr Blair announced.

"We will also examine the grounds for proscription to widen them and put forward proposals in the new legislation," he said.

Imran Waheed of Hizb ut Tahrir said his group would fight any ban and insisted they were "non-violent".

Moderate Muslim leaders are understood to oppose the ban on Hizb ut Tahrir.

Mr Kennedy warned that plans to ban Muslim organisations, powers to close mosques and deport people who "visit particular bookshops and websites" risked "inflaming tensions and alienating people".

[url=http://www.mpacuk.org/content/view/6/902/105/]MPAC[/url]

I wonder how they gonna bann them?

a lot of people who may not be HT's agree with some/most of their ideology

HT are very good, if not the best at finding what wrong with the muslim community. The problem is that the Government can not beat them. There are too many hardcore HT member to beat them or finish them off. But I think the motive is different behind this suggestion. I think the government are full aware that HT are a peaceful group.

Salam Muslims
Peace Non Muslims

I for one am a strong supporter of the HT (hizb ut tahrir al islami) even though I do not agree with many of their opinions. I strongly agree with them on the issue of re-establishing the Islamic state (khilafah) (and voting for man to legislate as being Haraam).

Khilafah and HT are so synonymous that banning HT is essentially banning the call for the Khilafah. This I believe is a clear attack on many Muslims ideal and obligatory position of living under a state that rules by complete Islam.

I never thought that I will hear the word khilafah (caliphate) from the mouth of leading politicians especially the prime minister in one of his recent labour conference address. If the Khilafah is truly established will the MCB give allegiance to it? I don’t think so - a British establishment will always adhere to its political allegiance to Britain.

This ‘proscribe’ I believe came from the Muslim MPs persistency and not in origin from Blair. For one thing Tony Blair could not even pronounce hizb ut tahrir!

These Muslim MPs, who were elected not because of popularity but were upon a seat that even if a Monkey was placed upon it would have won it, are so determined to show firm allegiance to Blair that they would even sell Islam if Blair demanded it.

Many of my close friends are members of this party and I am sure if they were banned they will continue underground as their allegiance is to Islam and not to any country, group or man. They are probably the or one of the largest Islamic parties in Britain with well over 2000 members and well over 10,000 supporters. Banning them will increase the isolation of the Muslim community as they will be afraid to speak openly about how they really feel.

These HT members are with this party not because they are brain-washed or out of preference but as an Islamic obligation that ultimately leads to the major obligation of re-establishing the Islamic state since they confirm that there is no other party which illustrates a comprehensive method based upon the revelation (wahi).

I think this will make them stronger and more favoured by the ummah of Britain than other Islamic movements as they will come across to be sincere in the face of hardship while other groups may change their stance. I wonder if MAB, ISB and others will remain in their current position regarding suicide bombings in Israel and their stance towards re-establishing the khilafah.

May Allah protect the true thoughts of Islam and protect the Islamic movements that stick to the truth.

Salam Muslims
Peace Non Muslims

HT and the establishment of the Khilafa are not one and the same.

All Muslims should work towards unity and concensus. This does not mean that we rally behind HT and do as they say.

British Muslim orgs represent Muslims in Britain. HT do not. HT do not want us to get involved in Britain. HT has a global outlook.

Groups such as the MCB are defending HT against a ban. Its time HT and their supporters dropped this idiotic approach towards Muslims orgs in this country and worked with them in order to prevent themselves from being banned.

BTW we should not focus on a ban on HT. Tony Blair announced a whole raft of measures. A ban on HT was just one measure. Muslims' civil liberties are being eroded. Muslims are going to have to be careful about what they say, what they do and what websites they visit.

British organisation group do not represent muslims. MCB is consider a joke by everyone, and the Mp are normally voting in because the muslims want a muslim to represent them, not always for their opinion. I go as far as saying no one represent the muslims on a widespread level. But Unity is important and all muslims need to see that including HT, I agree yesterday statement was drawing a line over what muslims can say and do for now on, and what they deem as acceptable.

MCB and the Muslim orgs claim to represent British Muslims. It might not seem that they do, but they come a lot closer to representing British Muslims than HT does. HT's outlook is global whereas MCB eg are Britain-centric.

being a group that thrives on controversy and is used to being banned/condemned

I dont see how this will make much a a diff to them

Well if they get banned everywhere, it will be hard to propogate themselves and too cause controversy. But I can't see their member disappearing, but one thing I know is that if they carry on even if they banned, there enough people in the muslims community, who wouldn't think twice about grassing them up.

Banning HT will set a very dangerous precedent. The gov will then have almost a free hand at banning any org it considers 'extremist' even if that org does not advocate violence.

Remember this is not just about HT. We are all going to be severly limited by these in our ability openly talk about politics, religion, history, current affairs etc.

The ban on HT is part of the gov's oppression of Muslim free speach.

salaam

Even though i disagree 90% of what HT stand for and believe they are misguiding the innocent Muslim youth- I still dont agree withem being banned. They dont promote hatred or violence, so why ban them. If any organisation in the UK should be banned it should be the BNP!

Al Muhajiroun being banned- i have no problem with that- good riddance i say.

wasalaam

Heh, the backlash begins!

The HT from what I have seen recently do not promote violence in the UK.

Banning them will just make them harder to monitor.

OTOH other organisations such as Al Muhajiroun do promote violence, and should be banned.

a plea to mr controversy...ahem... Ed, please dont get the revival banned as well

Well the term 'justifing violence' is very vague.

Saying Iraq war is wrong can be seen as 'justifying the violence occuring in Iraq'.

Saying Palestinians occupation is wrong can be seen as 'justifying the violence occuring in Palestine'.

ANyone can be banned.

Calling rioting yobs 'drunk' can be seen as 'justifying violence'.

salaam

what did HT stand for:
[b]
1. establishing Khilafah[/b].... the only thing they banged on about..talking about anything else was irrellevent to them
[b]
2. their understanding of khilafah was a misguided one[/b], eg no nation states, one governmnet to rule the world
[b]
3. misguided views such as establishing khilafah was fardh ain[/b]- compulsory for everyone- mainstream Islamic scholars totally disagree with that...

[b]4. their biggest blunder- to say if we die now then we die the death of jahilliyah[/b] because there is no khilafah and we havent gave our oath of alliegance to a caliph :shock: any scholar will tell them these hadith apply ONLY when an Islamic state exists and you dont give bayah to the caliph
[b]
5. THEIR BIGGEST MISGUIDED VIEW- voting for non muslim parties is haram...[/b]
massive scholars from every corner of the worls have gave arguments, proofs, statements, wrote articles, books that it is permissible but also necessary...yet they still go round saying it is haram....ridiculous!!!
For the few of you who still think its haram, read this:
http://www.therevival.co.uk/islam_politics.php

[b]6. misguided view on nationalism,[/b] eg to celebrate independence day of pakistan is haram! to hold a paksitani flag, wear a paksitan cricket shirt is nationalism an dharam, to love your country is haram.....again ask ANY scholar an dthey will tell you otherwise, it is only nationalism if you love your country more than your deen, and if you follow yopur country before islam.... they have created fitna on this issue... :twisted:
[b]
7. THIS ONE MAKES ME LAUGH- TO FOLLOW LAW OF THE LAND IS HARAM[/b] again any scholar will tell you , you can follow law of land unless it contradicts shariah...HT say if you follo wman made law its shirk!!!! in that case why dont they do hijra to a muslim country then- they created havoc and division and fitna at al unis on this issues...confused the heck out the youth!!!

[b]8. TO TAKE PART IN ANTI WAR MARCH WITH NON MUSLIMS IS NOT ALLOWED[/b]- remember the anti-Iraq war protests? and HT's ridiculous leaflets telling Muslims it snot allowed to take part....what a joke...

[b]9. DEMOCRACY IS HARAM.[/b]...what can i say? speak to scholasr and they will tell you Islam also teaches and promotes democarcy, which means sovereignty belongs to Allah (swt) and the people vote for their leaders.

The list is endless....

there are many organisations in the world who are also working towards implementing the shariah of Allah, the difference is they dont banged on about the catchphrase KHILAFAH, they have scholars (name two HT scholars?) and dont spread misguided views and confusion like the HT's do. If they do disappear they wont be missed...

[b]HAVING SAID ALL THAT, THEY STILL SHOULDNT BE BANNED... SIMPLY BECAUSE THEY DONT PROMOTE VIOLENCE OR PROMOTE HATRED, IF THEY SHOULD BE BANNE DTHEN SO SHOULD BNP

THIS ISSUE IS NOT ABOUT H.T.
ITS ABOUT THE GOVERNMENT BANNING MUSLIM GROUPS, TELLING US WHO IS OK AND NOT, TELLING US WHAT IS EXTREMISM AND NOT, TELLING US WHAT KIND OF AN ISLAM THEY WANT, TELLING US WHAT IMAMS ARE GOOD AND WHAT ARENT, TELLING US HOW MOSQUES SHOULD BE RUN, TELLING US WHAT SHOULD BE TAUGHT IN MOSQUES.....

AND WE SAY TO THE GOVERNMNET...BUTT OUT, LEAVE MUSLIM ISSUES TO THE MUSLIMS....[/b]

wasalaam

"TheRevivalEditor" wrote:

[b]
3. misguided views such as establishing khilafah was fardh ain[/b]- compulsory for everyone- mainstream Islamic scholars totally disagree with that...

Could you expand on this point please Ed with references? :?

"TheRevivalEditor" wrote:

[b]
2. their understanding of khilafah was a misguided one[/b], eg no nation states, one governmnet to rule the world
[b]

Can you also explain this one for me as well.

My main problem was that guilt was their main tool to get too people. They would use the same method too a 12 year old boy as they would too 20 year old one, which I personally didn't like as the capability of the two are so different and there a good chance the young one would take it the wrong way and get the wrong ideas.

"MuslimSister" wrote:

"kash" wrote:

My main problem was that guilt was their main tool to get too people.

That's a good thing isnt it...?

The guilt trip factor always works.

Not really, because they ain't doing anything different to what I doing apart from standing outside the mosque on Friday handing out leaflets.

Also you can't use their sort of guilt to make some a practicing. The guilt I refering to is the one that when they say [b]what are you doing for the Ummah[/b]. I personally don't think this is a good basis, it better to tell people about Islam and inform them of their duty, rather telling them muslims are getting attack and you should do something, IMO it become a pride thing for many and their belief is not on solid ground.

"MuslimSister" wrote:

"kash" wrote:

Not really, because they ain't doing anything different to what I doing apart from standing outside the mosque on Friday handing out leaflets.

Also you can't use their sort of guilt to make some a practicing. The guilt I refering to is the one that when they say [b]what are you doing for the Ummah[/b].

The one who was REALLY doing something for the Ummah wouldnt big himself up.

Yeah that so true. It what I was trying to say yesterday to some brothers, just because you don't feel the need to show everyone what you doing or thinking, doesn't necessary mean it ain't getting done. I think people are so inclined too getting their reward on earth it become second nature to want to get big up.

Salam Muslims
Peace Non-Muslims

TheRevivalEditors 9 points disagreement on what HT stands for is stupendously laughable.

I agree with HT on 8 of those 9 points. The disagreement i have with them is mainly on issued related to ‘aqeedah.

The 8th point regarding Marching with others is the only point I agree with TheRevivalEditor and even on this I say it is a valid Islamic opinion but weak since they based it upon Islamic text.

Well there you have it. TheRevivalEditor wasn’t kidding when he says he disagrees with HT on 90%!!!!!!!!

Perhaps my disagreement with him may beat that?

Salam Muslims
Peace Non-Muslims

"irfghan" wrote:

"TheRevivalEditor" wrote:

[b]
3. misguided views such as establishing khilafah was fardh ain[/b]- compulsory for everyone- mainstream Islamic scholars totally disagree with that...

Could you expand on this point please Ed with references? :?

salaam

HT's say it is the duty of every Muslim to work for the establishment of the khilafa....

but majority of scholars say no it is fardh kifaya, like the janazah salah, if one from community does it then sin is lifted from the rest of the people, same applies with working for khilafah...

if u ask scholars from any madhab or jamaat today, none will say it is fardh kifayah...

wasalaam

"kash" wrote:

"TheRevivalEditor" wrote:

[b]
2. their understanding of khilafah was a misguided one[/b], eg no nation states, one governmnet to rule the world
[b]

Can you also explain this one for me as well.

salaam
HT believe if u set up an islamic state in pakistan and one in iran for example, then that is wrong and not true islamic states because u can only have 1 islamic state which is for the whole world... because having countries is not islamic according to HT, u cant have borders, all that colonialist argument....they live on cloud cuckoo land...
to have khilafah in the whole world, u have to first have islamic states across the world, u have to start with one, and many countries in the world today are working towards implementing shariah law in Muslim lands- not just HT , who just talk about it and come out with their doo-lally ideas. :!:

wasalaam

Too be honest this is something I agree with HT alot on. Nationalism is one of the biggest treat to islam. You just need to look at the pride aspect that this carry with people. Being Pakistani, Bengali and whatever other nationality they may have is so important to people. It a form of status, it was as Taji mustafa said one of the sole reason that the muslim ummah was destoryed in the first place and why they was so much conflict. Too beat this problem, they need to stem the idea of the global body for the muslims. So having countries remaining with the idea of nationalism and Islam, is alway going to be destined for failure, people need to drop the pride that comes with belonging too a certain country and focus on a common objective, which need tp be set up first. Because if this isn't the case, everything will be broken up before it even begins.

My biggest problem with HT is there method of doing and accepting differences, the ht however in my area are generally nice guys and are always willing to explain things, so it isn't much of a problem, just wish they propogated more islamically to the kids rather then politically.