Salaams,
Ive noticed this for quite sometime and I was hoping someone else might bring it up but no one has so here goes. InshAllah no one will take this the wrong way.
When the chat room/tribune was originally introduced to the forum it wasnt such a bad thing BUT as time has progressed not only has it killed the main forum but also a lot of the discussions that take place on there consist of ppl talking about their personal life rather than any Islamic discussion. Dont get me wrong I think some of the discussions that dont involve ppl talking about their personal lives is productive and interesting. However, some ppl have unintentionally fallen into the trap of coming on the chat room/tribune to talk about their personal life (myself included). To me that is abusing the chat room/tribune facility.
Then there is the issue of why hardy anyone uses the chat room/tribune during the day. Ok I can understand there are a lot of ppl that are in full time education so probs only get time to go on in the evening. Most of the conversations do take place in the evening however what concerns me is the conversations that go on between members of this forum in the early hours of the morning. I know for a fact without even asking, my parents would not approve of me talking on a chat room/tribune at 3 or 4 in the morning even if it was about Islam as this is not what respectable practicing Muslims do. And it seems that its the same ppl that do it every night. Im not gonna start naming ppl as its quite evident from the posts who does it. Ask yourself this, Do your parents know what your doing at that time in the morning? If they dont maybe you should have a long hard think about that and ask yourself is it right what Im doing? Now before you all start kicking off Im not accusing anybody of anything I'm just poiting out what i have observed in the past few weeks.
Im not trying to pick on anyone or spoil your fun but there have to be some limits. I think sometimes we get soo wrapped up and start to fall into a trap of doing things without realising what were actually doing, Ive done it myself. For example in the past I always used the word "my love" or "love" when ive wanted to patronise someone. My intentions were clean and I did not think I was doing anything wrong however one member of the forum pm’d me and pointed it out so I stopped doing it.
I think we ALL need to take some time and question ourselves.
Ps my post is not directed to anyone in particular. As a Muslim I feel it is every Muslims duty to correct others when there is something wrong. Thats exactly what Im doing here so please refrain from taking offence.
pps sorry about the extremely long waffle.
May Allah (swt) guide us all.
w/salaam
wa'alaykum assalam
its a PUBLIC tribune, everyone can view it and anyone can join in at anytime.
what people choose to discuss is up to them, as long as haya is maintained and there is nothing unislamic going on i don't see owt wrong with it.
i'm the worst culprit i know and i don't see anything wrong with it. if i can’t get to sleep hey why not kill some time on the tribune and keep others awake too
(i hate that smiley!)
my mum/sisters are always in and out of my bedroom, i share a bedroom with my sis and she knows what i get up. i have nowt to hide.
and lastly, define what a respectable practicing muslim is.
no offence taken and ameen to the dua.
Salaams,
This may sound like an Omrow-esque answer, but the internet does not have a watershed, past which lie demons.
The whole concept of it being "safer" on the 'net during the day is a misapplication of past sensibilities to TV where more adult programmes would come on at night. With even the current "ondemand" TV services that is no longer the truth, but the idea behind it sticks as it has now become a part of "culture". There be demons at night.
What you do on the internet does not have to change whether it is 3/4am, 9am, midday, afternoon or evening.
Is the Tribune a tool for good? I doubt it. But I no longer care anyway and I have used it to encourage both drug use (narcotics) and violence.
Now, if that is not a positive, then what is?
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
yes, but at the same time there is the hope that only the people actively taking part in the convo are reading, so it is not as clear cut.
Pro's and cons of Tribune:
1. It (potentially) gets rid of idle chatter from the forums meaning that new forum posts should be of a higher quality. quality of posts on Tribune on the other hand will always be low, but they scroll away pretty fast, so can be ignored. (as of writing, there have been 36,498 Tribune posts in a few short months compared to approx 133,000 forum posts over a much longer period of time.)
2. Forum posts are generally longer, more thought out, while tribune is more immediate. Its the difference between ordering takeaway food or going to a restaurant.
3. Both are inclusive and exclusive. Forums means the discussion can happen over a longer period of time with refinement of arguments and people can join in days later. Tribune means it only happens for the people that are there at that specific time and once a conversation is off the page, for all intents and purposes its over. Re-discussing any matter generally means starting from scratch for the make benefit of people who missed out on previous installments. Or use injokes to confuse them.
4. Both can be twisted, but there are also private messages and contact forms on this site, or other sites out there altogether. for conversations that "kept hidden", there are other just as easy avenues.
5. People like me have a corrupting influence which is easier to notice on a live system such as Tribune. Seraphim, before he set off for Hajj did make a tribune post suggesting I was actively trying to corrupt everyone around me. There is nothing active about it, but I have special skills when it comes to derailing things, people, arguments, ideas.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
Would parents worry about their kids on an Islamic website's internet forum in the middle of the night...?
If you realised what I used to do in the middle of the night without my parents knowing (and I know many Muslims who do the same) you would be suggesting to every Muslim parent in the country that they FORCE their kids to use the Revival Tribune.
Don't just do something! Stand there.
Something i came across the other day.
No not the gum drop buttons! – Gingy
Is it just me or do some when they hear about chatting seem to think about two people flirting and trying to seduce each other.
“Before death takes away what you are given, give away whatever there is to give.”
Mawlana Jalal ud Din Rumi
How do you seduce with emoticons? Is it just lots of winks? Doesn't really do anything for me, I must say.
Don't just do something! Stand there.
You know: "Hey, let's come and do some "work" at mine."
“Before death takes away what you are given, give away whatever there is to give.”
Mawlana Jalal ud Din Rumi
Salam
Not a chance.
I am very upset at a few things (in italics) said in the above post !
How dare she assume that pious ladies get up to no good !!
It is she herself that needs to clean her own habbits to which she has confessed!!!
Omrow
Good
A question for everyone:
"Just imagine it was your brother, sister, son or daughter who was up at that 4 in the morning in the morning having a conversation with a non mahram how would you feel?"
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
^^^ disappointed and hurt probabley blame myself for being inadequate mother or sister. If they continued to do as they please that self blame would soon turn into anger and then i would break their legs.
No not the gum drop buttons! – Gingy
wow, you are angry.
Me? I would be much cooler.
Time and actions are two separate things.
I would probably be more inquisitive over why the person was up at that time. and maybe question the subject matter. (I would expect to be lied to on both fronts.)
I have no idea if I will hold by the principle that a person has the right to fail in their own way, but I hope I will.
If the person was doing bad, there is much worse than could be done.
I do not think I would be disappointed or hurt by actions of another as long as they are not in about me.
Alas, my thinking is not terribly cultured.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
I little bit of generalising, but I do not think I know many people who do not have a Yahoo or hotmail account, and never use their messengers.
I would posit that there are very few users of msn/Yahoo/AOL who only have contacts that are mahrems.
I can live with this world.
There is a lot of useless banter on Tribune, but things could always be worse, and IMO talking to strangers is not always a bad thing.
Saying that, there WAS some refined conversation on there about books earlier on today...
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
I forgive lying once but if they persist to lie I show no mercy. Why should i?
In a situation like that (where you catch your sibling/kid chatting to a non marham in the early hours of the morning) it would be best to take the cool approach as showing anger will just peev them off and before you know it your both arguing and you havent made any progress and found out what that person was doing up at that time in the morning.
In agreement. Sometimes it is easier to talk to strangers then ppl you may know however, one needs to bare in mind its not done on a regular basis and stick with your own gender as they can understand better and thus the advise they give is more catered to your problem/s.
I do have a hotmail account but find messenger extremely boring and have only ever used it 2/3 times in the past 10 years (no joke). The ppl I know that use it, their contact list consists of ppl they do not know and use the messenger facility to chat members of the opposite sex. :roll: Im not saying that ALL those that use messenger do this but MANY ppl do.
No not the gum drop buttons! – Gingy
Going on a tangent now - what would be the Islamic status of a random site that is there just for people to chat? Not an Islamic site... just a random site. One that is pushing no angles, no conversations and is not (overtly? it will be people just talking randomly...) religious in nature.
And what if that site created revenue? would that revenue be halaal?
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
Well before one can reach a conclusive decision we need to take into consideration a number of factors:-
Is it a group or just 2 individuals?
What exactly is meant by random conversation? (give me an example)
Is this random conversation chatting a frequent thing or just a one off?
What is the purpose of the random chatting?
Never thought about it in that way but now that you mention it, that is an intersting question you have posed.
I think it is leaning towards the dark side of grey.
By random conversation I mean I set it up and then never look back. Like a "drive-by" website.
and it will still be group chat, but potentially multiple ones where users can set up a new one on a different topic if they like (and since there will be noone around to moderate... it could be anything).
It would be run via chaos and anarchy.
I guess I have to avoid this money making scheme.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
Its too broad to call it. If people could talk about anything there then its similar to a public place where people cn meet up. In itself it is neutral.
If people waste time their, incessantly then for them it is makruh(disliked) to waste their time there. But I don't think it would be disliked for you to make such a place unless your intention was that people waste their time incessantly. If its facilitating more time wasting than anything else, it might be better if you moderate or close it.
If people get up to dodgy things their, that's probably haraam for them but I don't think its haraam for you to make such a place unless yopur intention was that they get up to dodgy stuff there. Having said that, if its doing more harm than good in terms of dodgy stuff then its not good for you to keep it running or unmoderated.
I think revenues depend on the site. If the site is fine, the money is too.
Incidentaly, people could argue that the tribune facilitates more time wasting than anything else. Definately, there's a load of mindless banter going on there but I, personally, don't think its 100% time wasting because some of the mindless joking is to let off steam.
Gentleness and kindness were never a part of anything except that it made it beautiful, and harshness was never a part of anything except that it made it ugly.
Through cheating, stealing, and lying, one may get required results but finally one becomes
I’ve been on the forums forever, in the old forums there used to be at least 8 of us up until 3am +, we used to chat about anything and everything (totally acceptable things IMO), I would never care if anyone saw what I wrote on the forums because I didn’t chat in a wrong manner I did however waste a lot of time on those forums because at time we did chat about silly stuff. I think it was all part of growing up to be honest, most members on the old forum very rarely post now (myself included) because everyone is busy with their lives now and don’t have time to give to forums.
you've all growed up.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
Im not quite sure that i follow. Do you mean like rooms within a chatroom/tribune where ppl can enter and leave freely?
It sounds complicated.
That is the bit i am worried about. You need to bare in mind that even though your intentions are clean (ie your not setting it up for ppl to use it for dodgy purposes) that doesnt mean to say ppl will. Obviously that will not be your fault BUT if you dont intervene and do anything to stop such behaviour then technically your encouraging it which goes against Islam. At this point your probably thinking oh its not my responsibility, what ppl get up to is there own business. No, it would be your responsibility because its your invention.
There is 2 ways that this new invention of yours could go:
1) It is a total disaster, ppl use it dodgy purposes, you might even get married ppl using it for dodgy purposes, marriages could be ruined. Could you have that on your conscience? When it all ends in fighting and tears everybody will be looking for someone to blame and it will be YOU they point the finger at.
2) It could all work out, ppl use it to discuss Islamic things and everybody is counting your praises.
Think it through.
No not the gum drop buttons! – Gingy
hey assalam alaykum
its good u have shared ur concerns.
firstly, yes i am in full education so i cant use the tribune during the day but otherwise i would and i dont be on here early on the mornings either. you also said that people talk about their lives instead of islamic stuff, well the general discussions are just general too - they may start off on a certain topic but people start bringing in their own views and give personal examples etc and the "no topic" is very random too. so tbh i dnt see much difference.
and yes the tribune is convenient. i like using it for certain things. for example i prefer using it to ask personal advice rather then making a new topic becuase the same people come on and i know what they are like and what sort of response i will get but at the same time we don't each properly so its much easier (<
"How many people find fault in what they're reading and the fault is in their own understanding" Al Mutanabbi
jazakallah khair for this old topic!
everything i just read is basically the same thing i've always heard. i guess i allready knew what the rules were of free-mixing.
i have generally always stuck by those rules whilst here on tribune but there is always that danger of idle chatting which could lead to haram.
i guess it's just a question of everyone needing to kinda moiderate each other whilst on the tribune. everyone always needs a reminder now and then. it's true that atleast there on here rather than being on any other site. we just need to know our limits and keep to them.
conclusion: there's good and bad in everything, it just depends on how you use it.
thanks for the reminder
May Allah(swt) guide us all Ameen
Lets reunite the ummah under one flag LA ILAHA IL ALLAH MUHAMMADUR RASULULLAH
definitely!
"How many people find fault in what they're reading and the fault is in their own understanding" Al Mutanabbi
elaborate
hmmmm...what i mean is as far as i know you shouldn't really be talking to non mahrams unless it's necessary. i.e. for the purpose of dawah, business, education etc.
So idle chatting (general convo) isn't really allowed between non mahrams. it can lead to the two people or one of the two to have feelings for each other, lustful thoughts etc.
any act that can lead to haram becomes haram or is disliked in Islam. for example telling a lie is haram, now even if you lie as a joke it is haram as it can make telling lies easy for you.
i don't really know if any of that makes sense to you.
Lets reunite the ummah under one flag LA ILAHA IL ALLAH MUHAMMADUR RASULULLAH
Something that leads to haraam is not necessarily haraam.
Grapes are used to make alcohol, but eating grapes is sunnah.
Moderation and using common sense is a requirement - Islam in no way requires people to circumvent such tools that have been granted to us by God.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
yes i totally agree with that. i think i should have been clearer.
what i meant was acts that have been clearly mentioned as haram in hadith etc. the acts that have been made haram strictly because it could lead to another haram. for example the selling of alcohol etc.
i'm just no good at explaining myself, so just try to make sense of that please.
we should always use our common sense too.
Lets reunite the ummah under one flag LA ILAHA IL ALLAH MUHAMMADUR RASULULLAH