Reviews of Cousin Marriages

Seraphim —

[quote][b][size=18]Calls for reviews of cousin marriages[/size][/b]

10/ 2/2008

A CABINET minister today backed calls for a review of the high numbers of birth defects among children from marriages between first cousins in Britain's Asian communities.

Chief Whip Geoff Hoon said there was a "particular problem" that needed expert analysis after a fellow minister warned the issue was not being addressed.

Phil Woolas said that while health workers were well aware of the heightened risk of genetic problems, cultural sensitivities made the issue difficult to raise.

The environment minister, who represents ethnically-diverse Oldham East and Saddleworth, said: "Part of the risk, I am told by the health service, is first-cousin marriages.

"If you are supportive of the Asian community then you have a duty to raise this issue.

"Awareness does need to be raised but we are very aware of the sensitivities," he added, pointing out that many of the people involved were the products of such marriages.

The comments come at a sensitive time for community relations following the Archbishop of Canterbury's controversial comments about accommodating aspects of sharia law in Britain.

Traditions

But Mr Woolas insisted that the marriages - which are legal in the UK - were a cultural, not a religious, issue based in the traditions of rural parts of Pakistan.

Defending his colleague, Mr Hoon told Sky News' Sunday Live: "He was commenting on a particular problem about cousins marrying first cousins.

"It is important that we look at that in terms of scientific expertise and the extent to which it is actually causing problems," he told Sky News' Sunday Live.

"But it obviously is a very sensitive matter and no one, no one, would suggest this is a problem for the wider Muslim community.

"I am confident that what he has said will have been said with sensitivity and with proper regard to his Muslim constituents and Muslims right across the United Kingdom."

Disorders

The call for action was supported by Labour MP Ann Cryer who first raised the issue more than two years ago after research showed British Pakistanis were 13 times more likely to have children with recessive disorders than the general population.

Research for BBC2's Newsnight in November 2005 showed British Pakistanis accounted for 3.4% of all births but have 30% of all British children with recessive disorders.

[url]http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/s/1035923_calls_for_reviews…]

[/quote]

Main arguement seems to be genetic defects.

Personally i just think its ikky.

Forum

Adeel — Sat, 26 Apr 2008 - 01:15

Not too long ago, I was in pakistan and I came very close to marrying a cousin. Simply because my grandad said he'd like me to get married in to the family.

At the time I thought, if it's going to make my parents and grandad happy, then what better person was there to get married to? I also thought, if it `makes them happy, then there was nothing wrong about it.
Another thing I thought about at the time was, - well if I dont marry her, who am I going to marry? I don't have a girlfriend or anythin like that, I don't agree with the whole dating thing and the only places I ever find myself are home and uni and work. So the chances of finding someone I might wana marry in the future is slim, so cousin works for me.

Anyway even though I was prepared to, I didnt get married in the end. I came back to england and she got married to another cousin.
Just wasn't ment to be in my case but for a lot of people it is and I know why they would consider it and despite what a lot of people think, its not such a bad thing!

MuslimBro — Sun, 27 Apr 2008 - 00:25

[quote=Naz]She been Pakistan and back and no one is asking for her rhista coz she is now 28 and apparently that’s past the sell by date. :roll:[/quote]
She's got a British passport yet no-one in Pakistan wants to marry her :shock:

Stranger999 — Sun, 27 Apr 2008 - 19:25

[quote=Adeel]Not too long ago, I was in pakistan and I came very close to marrying a cousin. Simply because my grandad said he'd like me to get married in to the family.

At the time I thought, if it's going to make my parents and grandad happy, then what better person was there to get married to? I also thought, if it `makes them happy, then there was nothing wrong about it.
Another thing I thought about at the time was, - well if I dont marry her, who am I going to marry? I don't have a girlfriend or anythin like that, I don't agree with the whole dating thing and the only places I ever find myself are home and uni and work. So the chances of finding someone I might wana marry in the future is slim, so cousin works for me.

Anyway even though I was prepared to, I didnt get married in the end. I came back to england and she got married to another cousin.
Just wasn't ment to be in my case but for a lot of people it is and I know why they would consider it and despite what a lot of people think, its not such a bad thing![/quote]

its convienant yes...but think about it...
your right...where else are people suppose to find this arranged 'love marriage' Naz speaks of...

I hold a similar life style to yours & the way i see it is...
my future husband is very likely to be an uncles son lol or Masi na puthar lol

where does marriage material people hang out...
shaad.com...????
the library???

lol i've looked!! they don't!

so the cousin brother it is!

Ya'qub — Sun, 27 Apr 2008 - 19:28

so how are the people with non-Muslim families supposed to get hitched?

I mean without doing anything dodgy like free-mixing or whatever?

Stranger999 — Sun, 27 Apr 2008 - 19:28

[quote=MuslimBro][quote=Naz]She been Pakistan and back and no one is asking for her rhista coz she is now 28 and apparently that’s past the sell by date. :roll:[/quote]
She's got a British passport yet no-one in Pakistan wants to marry her :shock: [/quote]

Am shocked...but then again...people are finding other ways of getting across nowadays without having to marry these 'modern British girls'

And 28 is pushing it a bit...!

Tell the girl to hang in there...surely there is a Masi na puthar or chachai na puthar that is not married yet!

Stranger999 — Sun, 27 Apr 2008 - 19:28

[quote=Ya'qub]so how are the people with non-Muslim families supposed to get hitched?

I mean without doing anything dodgy like free-mixing or whatever?[/quote]

Someone give this man an award!

Ya'qub — Sun, 27 Apr 2008 - 19:33

[quote=Stranger999][quote=Ya'qub]so how are the people with non-Muslim families supposed to get hitched?

I mean without doing anything dodgy like free-mixing or whatever?[/quote]

Someone give this man an award![/quote]

Like what, Revival Forum Personality of the Year 2007?

I already got one of those.

Stranger999 — Sun, 27 Apr 2008 - 19:37

[quote=Ya'qub][quote=Stranger999][quote=Ya'qub]so how are the people with non-Muslim families supposed to get hitched?

I mean without doing anything dodgy like free-mixing or whatever?[/quote]

Someone give this man an award![/quote]

Like what, Revival Forum Personality of the Year 2007?

I already got one of those.[/quote]

Not Fair!

How do i get one??? 🙁

im feeling quite unloved myself at the moment lol!

Noor — Sun, 27 Apr 2008 - 20:01

[quote=Ya'qub]so how are the people with non-Muslim families supposed to get hitched?

I mean without doing anything dodgy like free-mixing or whatever?[/quote]

You join ISOC 😂

Naz — Sun, 27 Apr 2008 - 20:58

[quote=Adeel]despite what a lot of people think, its not such a bad thing![/quote]

No one said it were a bad thing, it has it advantages, but its not everyones cup of tea. One should never marry out of convenience or coz it will make their parents/relatives happy. While everyone else might be happy you wont be. You have to spend the rest of your life with this person not your parents or relatives.

[quote="Stranger999"]
where else are people suppose to find this arranged 'love marriage' Naz speaks of...[/quote]

My dads friends sister got married to her cousin from back home. Her parents esp her bro was really happy that she married the cousin. They were two very different ppl with very different upbrinings. They werent together for long before it called it quits and got a divorce. Her brother refused to talk to her when she divorced the guy. She was in her early 30s by now and thought that she would never find anyone but she did. A guy at work (they were both teachers). They are now happily married, think they got a kid as well.

Anyway the moral of the story is dont lose hope ppl. Dont settle for the cousin from back home or the cousin from Britain whos been around. Put your trust in Allah(swt) and He will not let you down.

Ya'qub makes an excellant point. Not everyone has Muslims cousins that they can marry . They make the effort to find someone instead of saying oh well i cant find anyone to marry so il think i will settle for second best option the cousin.

If you dont wanna marry the cousin then do something about it! through halal means of course.

Adeel — Sun, 27 Apr 2008 - 23:52

[quote=Naz] One should never marry out of convenience or coz it will make their parents/relatives happy. While everyone else might be happy you wont be. [/quote]

You make your own happiness, if you go in to it thinking "yeh i'll be happy", you'll be happy but if you go in to it thinking "hmmmm, maybe i'l be happy, maybe i wont", then you wont be happy, its as simple as that.

[quote=]Put your trust in Allah(swt) and He will not let you down.[/quote]

I agree. All the while I was thinkin of getting married, I said to myself, if its meant to be, it'll happen but I didnt get married and I know its because it wasn't meant to be and that means Allah(swt) has someone better in store for me.

Amal — Wed, 30 Apr 2008 - 19:02

Going back to the topic.. Our beloved prophet ﷺ married his own first cousin - Zainab bint Jahsh (ra).. (enough to show, i think, sufficient grounds for validity or justifiability)

Seraphim — Wed, 30 Apr 2008 - 19:44

[quote=Amal]Going back to the topic.. Our beloved prophet ﷺ married his own first cousin - Zainab bint Jahsh (ra).. (enough to show, i think, sufficient grounds for validity or justifiability)[/quote]

Never said there was something wrong with it. Just saying dont see the advantage in this day and age. Plenty of semi-decent folk to go around.

Ya'qub — Wed, 30 Apr 2008 - 19:51

I think inter-racial marriages is the single thing that will most contribute to the Ummah becoming united.

Inter-cousin marriages will lead to more division.

Noor — Wed, 30 Apr 2008 - 19:56

[quote=Ya'qub]I think inter-racial marriages is the single thing that will most contribute to the Ummah becoming united.[/quote]

defo. allhamdulillah that is starting to happen now.

mixed race kids are so cute maasha'Allaah.

Courage — Thu, 1 May 2008 - 11:33

[quote=Amal]Going back to the topic.. Our beloved prophet ﷺ married his own first cousin - Zainab bint Jahsh (ra).. (enough to show, i think, sufficient grounds for validity or justifiability)[/quote]

Wasn't she his foster son, Zaid's ex-wife, which he was ordered to marry?

Naz — Thu, 1 May 2008 - 12:38

My auntie’s sister is married to a half cast and her kids are beautiful. White and Asian is most definitely a good combination.

[quote=Courage][quote=Amal]Going back to the topic.. Our beloved prophet ﷺ married his own first cousin - Zainab bint Jahsh (ra).. (enough to show, i think, sufficient grounds for validity or justifiability)[/quote]

[b]Wasn't she his foster son[/b], Zaid's ex-wife, which he was ordered to marry?[/quote]

:? I think you mean Zaid was the Prophets ﷺ adopted son. Zaynab bint Jahsh (may Allah be pleased with her) was originally married to him but it didnt work out.

Ya'qub — Thu, 1 May 2008 - 13:04

[quote=Naz]My auntie’s sister is married to a half cast and her kids are beautiful. White and Asian is most definitely a good combination.
[/quote]

First its spelled 'half caste', and secondly it is used as a racist term and you should say 'mixed-race' instead.

Here is a poem regarding it:

[quote=John Agard]
Excuse me
standing on one leg
I'm half-caste

Explain yuself
wha yu mean
when yu say half-caste
yu mean when picasso
mix red an green
is a half-caste canvas/
explain yuself
wha u mean
when yu say half-caste
yu mean when light an shadow
mix in de sky
is a half-caste weather/
well in dat case
england weather
nearly always half-caste
in fact some o dem cloud
half-caste till dem overcast
so spiteful dem dont want de sun pass
ah rass/
explain yuself
wha yu mean
when yu say half-caste
yu mean tchaikovsky
sit down at dah piano
an mix a black key
wid a white key
is a half-caste symphony/

Explain yuself
wha yu mean
Ah listening to yu wid de keen
half of mih ear
Ah looking at u wid de keen
half of mih eye
and when I'm introduced to yu
I'm sure you'll understand
why I offer yu half-a-hand
an when I sleep at night
I close half-a-eye
consequently when I dream
I dream half-a-dream
an when moon begin to glow
I half-caste human being
cast half-a-shadow
but yu come back tomorrow
wid de whole of yu eye
an de whole of yu ear
and de whole of yu mind

an I will tell yu
de other half
of my story
[/quote]

Naz — Thu, 1 May 2008 - 13:14

[quote=Ya'qub][quote=Naz]My auntie’s sister is married to a half cast and her kids are beautiful. White and Asian is most definitely a good combination.
[/quote]

First its spelled 'half caste', and secondly it is used as a racist term and you should say 'mixed-race' instead.

[/quote]

I missed out the e big deal.

Other ppl might use it to be racist but i dont. I dont understand why ppl find it offensive. If you have two different backgrounds it does make you a half caste. Im Pakistani and when ppl say Paki i dont get offended coz i am one!!

Courage — Thu, 1 May 2008 - 14:06

[quote=Naz]My auntie’s sister is married to a half cast and her kids are beautiful. White and Asian is most definitely a good combination.

[quote=Courage][quote=Amal]Going back to the topic.. Our beloved prophet ﷺ married his own first cousin - Zainab bint Jahsh (ra).. (enough to show, i think, sufficient grounds for validity or justifiability)[/quote]

[b]Wasn't she his foster son[/b], Zaid's ex-wife, which he was ordered to marry?[/quote]

:? I think you mean Zaid was the Prophets ﷺ adopted son. Zaynab bint Jahsh (may Allah be pleased with her) was originally married to him but it didnt work out. [/quote]

Yeah, that's what I meant. 🙂
But I didn't knwo that she was his cousin. If she was wouldn't it be Zainab bint Abi Talib?
And anyway, halfe-caste is offensive. You might not mean it in an offensive way but most do. That's like saying Paki or n***** aren't offensive. That thing is, most people find them offensive and normally they're used to cause offence.
Oh, and only Hindus acknowledge castes. That's where the word came from.

Stranger999 — Thu, 1 May 2008 - 14:37

[quote=Ya'qub]I think inter-racial marriages is the single thing that will most contribute to the Ummah becoming united.

Inter-cousin marriages will lead to more division.[/quote]

You have a really good point there, when a marriage falls apart, the whole family does aswell...

but that doesn't justify inter-racial marriages...i think they cause more trouble to be honest...despite the 'cute kids'

I mean what if a muslim girl marries a non-believer (and she decides to follow his way of life) and yes their kids may be 'cute' but how is that uniting the Ummah..

In a totally non racist way i think people are better off sticking to people from their own background and community..

yes it has its disadvantages...(when it all falls apart there will be world war 3)
but atleast your kids wont grown up confused about who they are..
what their background is...

when your young your likely to follow the crowd...so if you look like a white person...you tend to copy their behaviour..!

not a good thing for the Ummah at all me thinks!

Courage — Thu, 1 May 2008 - 14:49

Since when was race and religion the same thing? I don't think you'll copy everything your husband or wife does, regardless of their or your colour. And surely some of us will be more compatible with someone who's lived in Britain and knows what we go through.

[quote=]In a totally non racist way i think people are better off sticking to people from their own background and community..[/quote]

Don't you think that's like saying we should live in ghettoes? Bad idea, mate!

[quote=]yes it has its disadvantages...(when it all falls apart there will be world war 3)
but atleast your kids wont grown up confused about who they are..
what their background is...[/quote]

Just by living in Britain, most of us are "confused", and surely we should learn from different races and cultures as it says in the Quran?
As long as they're compatible with you I don't think it matters what they're race is. I'm Asian myself, but I wouldn't mind marrying a non-Asian, why should I, as long as she's compatible?

Stranger999 — Thu, 1 May 2008 - 15:00

[quote=Courage]Since when was race and religion the same thing? I don't think you'll copy everything your husband or wife does, regardless of their or your colour. And surely some of us will be more compatible with someone who's lived in Britain and knows what we go through.

[quote=]In a totally non racist way i think people are better off sticking to people from their own background and community..[/quote]

Don't you think that's like saying we should live in ghettoes? Bad idea, mate!

[quote=]yes it has its disadvantages...(when it all falls apart there will be world war 3)
but atleast your kids wont grown up confused about who they are..
what their background is...[/quote]

Just by living in Britain, most of us are "confused", and surely we should learn from different races and cultures as it says in the Quran?
As long as they're compatible with you I don't think it matters what they're race is. I'm Asian myself, but I wouldn't mind marrying a non-Asian, why should I, as long as she's compatible? [/quote]

bad example let me try and re-explain...

a Muslim (pakistani) guy i know married a white girl of no faith..even when she got married to him she made it clear she wasn't going to follow the faith

they have 2 beautiful kids now a little girl and a boy

the girls is 9 wears a headscarf and is a quran hafiz (i think thats what you call it..her dad sent her to islamic school and made sure she hasnt stepped moutside to see the world yet

her mum on the other hand still behaves like a white woman...she drinks, wears tiny clothes (if any at all), and husband is okay with it!

when that girl grows up shes going to go out there and c the world herself...shes going to look at mummy n daddys lifestyle and you don't think she's going to copy...

you don't think she's going to marry a white guy...coz her daddy married a white woman ...

or she's going to want to wear teeny tiny clothes coz her mum does...or drink coz both of her parents do!

thats how i meant it...

i mean if the woman converted to Islam...by all means it would be a beautiful match...but she hasn't and the kids are going to grow up very confused aout who they are...

Ya'qub — Thu, 1 May 2008 - 15:23

first of all, when I said mixed marriages I meant 2 Muslims of different races, so an Asian man with a black woman, An Arab man with a far-eastern woman etc.

Plus, a Muslim guy is not allowed to marry disbelieving woman in any case, so he knew what he was getting himself into. Someone marrying a non-Muslim (or Christian or Jew) is completely unrelated to my point about mixed-marriages 'uniting the Ummah'.

And I also find some of the ways you talk about 'white women's behaviour' very racist and offensive. My mum is a white, non-Muslim woman and she behaves a lot better, more modestly and more politely than 90% of young Muslim girls I've seen (yes, I mean [b]90%[/b]).

Stranger999 — Thu, 1 May 2008 - 15:29

[quote=Ya'qub]first of all, when I said mixed marriages I meant 2 Muslims of different races, so an Asian man with a black woman, An Arab man with a far-eastern woman etc.

Plus, a Muslim guy is not allowed to marry disbelieving woman in any case, so he knew what he was getting himself into. Someone marrying a non-Muslim (or Christian or Jew) is completely unrelated to my point about mixed-marriages 'uniting the Ummah'.

And I also find some of the ways you talk about 'white women's behaviour' very racist and offensive. My mum is a white, non-Muslim woman and she behaves a lot better, more modestly and more politely than 90% of young Muslim girls I've seen (yes, I mean [b]90%[/b]).[/quote]

i apologise if you found my comments racist...they weren't intended to be

i didn't say all white non muslim women are the same...nor was my intention to portray them all like that...i was just using a real life example to make a point

ooohh and one more error...

i misunderstand about what you meant...mixing race and not religion...2 completly different things i know!

i'm going to stop digging myself deeper now 🙁