it twas good, must have been the first program that didn't portray Islam as being a monstrous religion.

What do you mean NOT monstrous?

It clearly took advantage of the poor girls from a dysfunctional family.

Quick, call the Daily Mail - think of the children!

/never watched it.

(to be fair, there are many programs that do not portray Islam as monstrous. Some do show a negative side of some Muslims.)

What about that program that was about that Scottish lady who converted to Islam 10-odd years ago. Now she lectures kids about Islam and she's raised her twin sons as Muslim since they were babies (they both have ginger beards now, masha'Allah!)

And anything about Yusuf Islam...

Hold, I'm seeing a pattern here. White Muslims aren't the problem, it's the Asians that ITV/Channel 4/Daily Mail are worried about.

Which basically proves that this is not a religious issue. It's just plain old-fashioned racism.

I don't know if you watched it, Ya'qub, but it was entirely sympathetic to Islam. Horrible white, nominally Catholic family moves into an entirely Muslim (mostly Pakistani) area, and the oldest daughter, aged 11, finds solace in Islam. The mosque is presented as a beautiful escape from her daily troubles, the Muslims are all terribly wise and would prefer her to get on with her family, and washing and prayer are clearly a beautiful thing to her. The family doesn't get it, but the family are scum in any event, until the exit of the criminal lout father. Having said which, Admin's response is also plausible - Islam on the march again, the girl only succumbs to peer pressure etc. But that could only be an incidental and unkind subtext, a rebellion against the film's actual message which is basically Islam good, indigenous English bad. At the very least I think most viewers will settle for a middle ground - being that every society has its faults - but that isn't what the film showed.

It wasn't a bad film at all. The BBC are being silly and opportunistic grouping these commissions into a "white season".

Those over 16 can watch it (over the next few days)on the [url=http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/page/item/b009gbd4.shtml?src=ip_potpw]BBC iPlayer[/url].

EDIT - just noticed it is 90 mins long. I was gonna watch it... but no idea how far I will get with that length.

PS I had also assumed this to be a documentary (factual). It is a drama (fictional).

EDIT 2 - watched over half of it, and it is kinda slow... but it is more about the dysfunctional family than anything else so far. (the few bits about Islam seemed a little too preachy to my ears... but that is me - I generally hate sales pitches of all kinds. making them or receiving them.)

Nope, I didn't watch this. But my friend gave me his detailed analysis tonight and it sounded quite interesting.

It seems that it was 'based on true events' and I've certainly heard of very young white people who grow up in predominately Muslim areas who start taking on Muslim practices.

Whether or not this type of conversion is based on a belief and acceptance on Tawhid and (B) whether the person remains a Muslim after they have grown up and moved to an area which is not predominately Muslim is unclear.

Apparently there were inaccuracies in terms of the depiction of prayer; I have seen this done before in which people don't line up for salat or the tajweed of the 'imam' is completely incorrect. I'm surprised that TV companies don't consult with Muslims on these matters to make it more accurate. I remember watching Britz and the prayer seemed really weird to me the way it was portrayed. Although I can't comment on this program, apparently the imam was saying 'Subhan ar-Rabbi al-Adheem' out loud when they're meant to do it silently.

Joie de Vivre wrote:

I don't know if you watched it, Ya'qub, but it was entirely sympathetic to Islam. Horrible white, nominally Catholic family moves into an entirely Muslim (mostly Pakistani) area, and the oldest daughter, aged 11, finds solace in Islam. The mosque is presented as a beautiful escape from her daily troubles, the Muslims are all terribly wise and would prefer her to get on with her family, and washing and prayer are clearly a beautiful thing to her. The family doesn't get it, but the family are scum in any event, until the exit of the criminal lout father. Having said which, Admin's response is also plausible - Islam on the march again, the girl only succumbs to peer pressure etc. But that could only be an incidental and unkind subtext, a rebellion against the film's actual message which is basically Islam good, indigenous English bad. At the very least I think most viewers will settle for a middle ground - being that every society has its faults - but that isn't what the film showed.

It wasn't a bad film at all. The BBC are being silly and opportunistic grouping these commissions into a "white season".

The film was not meant to be a comment on Islam but on the state of the white working class.

The "terribly wise" Muslim characters have only bit parts. They are not the main protaganists.

The girl only turns to Islam because her family is falling apart. Once the father leaves, the family gets back on its feet and it can start over. Given this ending it would seem that the girl no longer needs to find solace in Islam because she finds a new respect for her mother.

There is no "actual message which is basically Islam good, indigenous English bad" - that is a crude caricature. However, during the period covered by the film, it did appear to the girl as if Islam was good and her own culture/family was bad. The general message though is that the indigenous population has social issues it needs to deal with and if it doesn't deal with them the moral vacuum will be filled by Islam - at least in areas which are predominantly Muslim and Islam is very apparent.

A similar film could be made about such a family living in an are predominated by Hindus, Sikhs, Jews - but, yes, there aren't many such areas.

That's a fairly good analysis.

Courage wrote:

Good analysis, but why is someone who willingly converted to Islam feel as though they don't need it anymore and can leave it just like that?

Because they are 11 years old.

The film doesn't specify or even imply that the girl will leave Islam.

Shush...

You're ruining the sequel!

Ali (ra) converted to Islam at the age of 9, and was mocked by the Quraish. Of course he later ruled over them as Caliph.

And I have heard of other young people converting to Islam with full belief and conviction, even in modern times.

But I also know of many people who have converted to Islam for many reasons (other than the fact that they fully believe in Allah (swt) and the Qur'an).

Some people have done this for marriage, and they have become practising and devout Muslims later on...Allah (swt) guides people in a variety of ways.

I know other people who have converted because they liked the companionship and brotherhood which is so strong between Muslims - When they have found that they can get it elsewhere too, they have sometimes left Islam (and I obviously had to chop their head off).

Joie de Vivre wrote:

The film doesn't specify or even imply that the girl will leave Islam.

We could get a bit abstract and say that that the milk represents solace, comfort and meaning etc.

The mother usually forgets to get the milk. When they move to the new house the Muslim neighbours provide the milk. At the end of the film the mother runs off to get the milk. The Muslims next door no longer need to provide it.

I'd better cut my losses and concede the point. You know your beans.

An interesting, if long, article about the BBC's 'White' series in general:

Ruqayyah Collector wrote:

White lies

The BBC's White season claims to explore the under-representation of the white working class. In reality, the programmes are about Muslims and the impact of migration, questioning the merits of multiculturalism.

As someone born and bred in Bradford, I kept an open mind while watching two in the series, Last Orders and Rivers of Blood. My concerns about this season were first raised when Newsnight interviewed the BNP leader Nick Griffin, allowing him unfettered airtime to falsely blame Pakistani people for the drug problems in Britain.

The BBC should not allow the promotion of racist propaganda as fact; where the BNP does so, racist attacks increase and the BNP makes gains at the ballot box. Its vote has grown from 3,000 votes to just under 300,000 in the last decade.

Last Orders promoted many racist myths unchallenged. The BNP was the party favoured by most of those who mentioned voting in the programme, unchallenged by the narrator, who failed to point out it wants an all-white Britain and has a history of leading members with convictions for inciting racial hatred and violence. Instead, we see myths about Asians and Muslims presented as fact, the culmination of which is a young BNP supporter in front of a union flag with a swastika saying: "If I saw a young Paki getting kicked and knocked over, I would not blink an eyelid, I hate them so much."

No one would argue that legitimate issues such as poverty, isolation, deprivation and so on, which affects all communities, including white people, should not be addressed and dealt with. The problem is to make such issues about race, or to imply that white people are being neglected at the expense of black or other minority communities. Such an approach turns reality on its head. One could argue that issues affecting poorer communities in general are not prominent enough. But this is not about race.

The truth is that the BBC does not ignore white people. Its programming all year round reflects many aspects of life for white people in Britain: In terms of programming, it is the under-representation of black and minority communities and the often stereotyped way they are depicted which remains the problem. Major soaps such as EastEnders are practically devoid of the Asian and black communities - a ludicrous situation given that it is set in east London.

While the subsequent programmes in the season may have a more positive orientation towards migration, and last night's White Girl was an excellent, thought-provoking drama (albeit focusing on an issue that will be irrelevant to most white working-class people's lived experience: only a tiny minority of white teenage girls convert to Islam), I'd imagine it is the first two programmes that will resonate beyond this week, in the same way that negative stories about Muslims and migrant communities permeate much further than the surveys which show the positive reality of our community ) and the net gain (pdf) of migration to Britain.

[url=http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/ruqayyah_collector/2008/03/white_lie... article[/url]

watched the last 30 mins it was okish. If the purpose of the program was to educate the ignorant then they havent done a good job. For starters a women cant divorce a man by word of mouth. Also as far as im aware if your wanting to revert to Islam you must have done your wudu, say the shahada in Arabic and also point your index finger up when saying the shahada.

Courage wrote:

So if a non-Muslim friend gives me some milk, while a Muslim friend hasn't got any, that means I'm leaving Islam? Give me a break! The thing is we don't know what happens next.

Since this is a dramitisation, nothing happens next. The story finishes when the program finishes. Beast is implying about what he thinks the writers meant, by putting something like that in the program.

Without having seen the program, I am inclined to believe Beast's interpretation. You have to try to look at things like this in a none-literal way. Hope you don't interpret the Qur'an in such a literal way(!)

i was watching jeremy kyle the other day and there was this woman complaining about her daughter who converted to islam, when the daughter came she wasn't wearing her islamic clothes, for some reason she said she left it in a bag. :? . any way the girl said her mum never loved her and when she converted she started begging her and pretended to love her, but the gilr didnt listen, she married a pakistani man who some how looked like a gangster, and they had three kids, her mum throws stuff at thier haouse every time she passes by, coz they're muslim, and she doesnt even want to see her grand children because they look like their dad i.e thier pakistani