Apostasy and Islam

Published by Ya'qub on 30 December, 2007 - 22:34
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Submitted by You on 23 January, 2008 - 23:54

Innocent - incapable of sin.

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"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.

Submitted by Funzo on 23 January, 2008 - 23:55

Guys guys guys this is really off topic.

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Those who danced were thought to be quite insane, by those who couldn't hear the music...

Submitted by Noor on 24 January, 2008 - 00:00

awliya are at that level where they see Allah (swt) not literally of course, they are engaged in dhikr 24/7. now how can someone who is engaged in dhikr 24/7, who fears Allah (swt) so much, commit a sin? they are at that stage where they are incapable of committing a sin. when the ruh controls you and the nafs is beaten.

Submitted by You on 24 January, 2008 - 00:03

"Noor" wrote:
awliya are at that level where they see Allah (swt) not literally of course, they are engaged in dhikr 24/7. now how can someone who is engaged in dhikr 24/7, who fears Allah (swt) so much, commit a sin? they are at that stage where they are incapable of committing a sin. when the ruh controls you and the nafs is beaten.

What you mean is they are the stage where it is increasingly hard for them to sin. They can still sin. Hell, they can still lose their faith.

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"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.

Submitted by Noor on 24 January, 2008 - 00:08

bas kar admin. i'm tireeeeeeeeeeed

yah thats what i meant i think? need to re read my notes. btw there is a village in Yemen where all awliyas live.

you mentioned that before, i would like a source please, about imam ghazali rh. shaykh hamza yusuf was saying he went through a spiritual phase but thats about it.

Submitted by Ya'qub on 24 January, 2008 - 01:30

I know a hadith that says there will be some people who follow the way leading to Hellfire, until they are a footstep away from it, but will enter Paradise, and there are some people who will follow the way leading to Paradise, until they are a footstep away from it, but will go to the Hellfire. I will try to find the reference, insh'Allah.

Plus, I thought the only person mentioned in the Qur'an and Sunnah who was 'Friend of Allah (swt)' is Prophet Ibrahim (as).

I don't see how mere humans can pronounce who is Friend of Allah (swt) and who isn't. That knowledge is only with Allah (swt).

The only people we know for sure to be in Jannah are the people mentioned specifically in the Qur'an and Hadith.

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Don't just do something! Stand there.

Submitted by Courage on 24 January, 2008 - 14:22

"Ya'qub" wrote:
So...a scholar said that the way to the Straight Path is with a scholar, so it must be true, right?

Wow! That like saying that Pantene Pro-V is the way to clean hair, because the Pantene Pro-V advert said so!

OK, I'm just being provocative now...I love scholars and I've got a fat book of tafsir for Surah al-Fatiha myself.

I'm just concerned with the fact that many Muslims follow scholars as if what they say is indisputable. Whereas the lessons and teachings within the Qur'an and ahadith vary when put into different contexts.

e.g. Imam Shafii. When in Madina he issued a fatwa that to get divorced a man must say 'I divorce you' three times and then it is valid. When in later life he moved residency to Cairo, he judged that the fatwa was not applicable in Egyptian society, because in their culture men would often shout 'I divorce you!' during arguments, while not actually meaning it.

This proves that rulings/lessons can/should change from place to place.

This was only a few hundred miles away, and in the same time period, so imagine how different the rulings/lessons are between hundreds of years ago in the Mid-East and modern-day Britain?!

So why is this relevant? Because the scholars here have not grown up in modern-day Britain. How many renowned scholars are there who know about teenage/young people's lives? Very, VERY few.

So while it IS true that we need scholars to point us between 'halal' and 'haram', we can't rely on them to offer SOLUTIONS to our problems, because they've never faced the types of problems we face. So for example, when we read a verse about patience, the principal of patience that is mentioned is universal to all times/places. BUT how we go about implementing patience in our lives/becoming 'patient' ourselves, that is something that today's scholars, imams and sheikhs can't really help us with. (there are SOME, but way too few. There are more Americans but [b]hardly[/b] any fully-qualified British ones).

Insha'Allah this situation will change in the future.

Well said Yaqub! Smile
Sorry, Noor, but I'm with Yaqub here.

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Chin up, mate! Life's too short.

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