Apostasy and Islam

Ya'qub —

[quote]From the Hadith:

Bukhari (52:260) - "...The Prophet said, 'If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him.' "

Bukhari (83:37) - "Allah's Apostle never killed anyone except in one of the following three situations: (1) A person who killed somebody unjustly, was killed (in Qisas,) (2) a married person who committed illegal sexual intercourse and (3) a man who fought against Allah and His Apostle and deserted Islam and became an apostate."

Bukhari (84:57) - "[In the words of] Allah's Apostle, 'Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him.'"

Bukhari (89:271) - A man who embraces Islam, then reverts to Judaism is to be killed according to "the verdict of Allah and his apostle."

Bukhari (84:58 ) - "There was a fettered man beside Abu Muisa. Mu'adh asked, 'Who is this (man)?' Abu Muisa said, 'He was a Jew and became a Muslim and then reverted back to Judaism.' Then Abu Muisa requested Mu'adh to sit down but Mu'adh said, 'I will not sit down till he has been killed. This is the judgment of Allah and His Apostle (for such cases) and repeated it thrice.' Then Abu Musa ordered that the man be killed, and he was killed. Abu Musa added, 'Then we discussed the night prayers'"

Bukhari (84:64-65) - "Allah's Apostle: 'During the last days there will appear some young foolish people who will say the best words but their faith will not go beyond their throats (i.e. they will have no faith) and will go out from (leave) their religion as an arrow goes out of the game. So, wherever you find them, kill them, for whoever kills them shall have reward on the Day of Resurrection."
[/quote]

So what do I tell a non-Muslim who sent this to my friend?

Forum

Noor — Thu, 24 Jan 2008 - 00:00

awliya are at that level where they see Allah (swt) not literally of course, they are engaged in dhikr 24/7. now how can someone who is engaged in dhikr 24/7, who fears Allah (swt) so much, commit a sin? they are at that stage where they are incapable of committing a sin. when the ruh controls you and the nafs is beaten.

You — Thu, 24 Jan 2008 - 00:03

[quote="Noor"]awliya are at that level where they see Allah (swt) not literally of course, they are engaged in dhikr 24/7. now how can someone who is engaged in dhikr 24/7, who fears Allah (swt) so much, commit a sin? they are at that stage where they are incapable of committing a sin. when the ruh controls you and the nafs is beaten.[/quote]

What you mean is they are the stage where it is increasingly hard for them to sin. They can still sin. Hell, they can still lose their faith.

Noor — Thu, 24 Jan 2008 - 00:08

bas kar admin. i'm tireeeeeeeeeeed

yah thats what i meant i think? need to re read my notes. btw there is a village in Yemen where all awliyas live.

you mentioned that before, i would like a source please, about imam ghazali rh. shaykh hamza yusuf was saying he went through a spiritual phase but thats about it.

Ya'qub — Thu, 24 Jan 2008 - 01:30

I know a hadith that says there will be some people who follow the way leading to Hellfire, until they are a footstep away from it, but will enter Paradise, and there are some people who will follow the way leading to Paradise, until they are a footstep away from it, but will go to the Hellfire. I will try to find the reference, insh'Allah.

Plus, I thought the only person mentioned in the Qur'an and Sunnah who was 'Friend of Allah (swt)' is Prophet Ibrahim (as).

I don't see how mere humans can pronounce who is Friend of Allah (swt) and who isn't. That knowledge is only with Allah (swt).

The only people we know for sure to be in Jannah are the people mentioned specifically in the Qur'an and Hadith.

Courage — Thu, 24 Jan 2008 - 14:22

[quote="Ya'qub"]So...a scholar said that the way to the Straight Path is with a scholar, so it must be true, right?

Wow! That like saying that Pantene Pro-V is the way to clean hair, because the Pantene Pro-V advert said so!

OK, I'm just being provocative now...I love scholars and I've got a fat book of tafsir for Surah al-Fatiha myself.

I'm just concerned with the fact that many Muslims follow scholars as if what they say is indisputable. Whereas the lessons and teachings within the Qur'an and ahadith vary when put into different contexts.

e.g. Imam Shafii. When in Madina he issued a fatwa that to get divorced a man must say 'I divorce you' three times and then it is valid. When in later life he moved residency to Cairo, he judged that the fatwa was not applicable in Egyptian society, because in their culture men would often shout 'I divorce you!' during arguments, while not actually meaning it.

This proves that rulings/lessons can/should change from place to place.

This was only a few hundred miles away, and in the same time period, so imagine how different the rulings/lessons are between hundreds of years ago in the Mid-East and modern-day Britain?!

So why is this relevant? Because the scholars here have not grown up in modern-day Britain. How many renowned scholars are there who know about teenage/young people's lives? Very, VERY few.

So while it IS true that we need scholars to point us between 'halal' and 'haram', we can't rely on them to offer SOLUTIONS to our problems, because they've never faced the types of problems we face. So for example, when we read a verse about patience, the principal of patience that is mentioned is universal to all times/places. BUT how we go about implementing patience in our lives/becoming 'patient' ourselves, that is something that today's scholars, imams and sheikhs can't really help us with. (there are SOME, but way too few. There are more Americans but [b]hardly[/b] any fully-qualified British ones).

Insha'Allah this situation will change in the future.[/quote]

Well said Yaqub! 🙂
Sorry, Noor, but I'm with Yaqub here.