Ancestry doesnt matter.

[quote=You]
not the backwards minded and cultural views of some which say that their ancestors did something wrong, so they must also do that same thing.

[/quote]
Anyone with a bit of common sense would realise how ridiculous that sounds!

I think Lollywood needs a history lesson on the West, since he thinks they've always been so great.

ooooh I can share a very little known fact:

The British were the first to use concentration camps. Yes, not the Germans, but the British.

[quote=You]Just something a person who pretends to have once been Muslim keeps going on about - ancestry.
[/quote]

How can I prove that I was a Muslim and that my parents still are?

[quote=You]
His view is that since Islam was revealed in Arabia, people elsewhere should not believe it.
[/quote]
No, they should not become "Islam ke Thekedaar"

[quote=You]
He also mentions how many Muslim personalities from the past were not Pakistani (lets pretend to forget that even my gran is older than pakistan... and that we are not in Pakistan).
[/quote]

I'm saying that they have nothing to do with Pakistan or Pakistani's

The military of Pakistan has named its short-range ballistic missile in the honour of Mehmood of Ghazni, the Ghaznavi Missile.

Why? was he a Pakistani? what connection does he have with Pakistan?

why did they not name it after Qahid e Azam[ father of the nation(PBUH)

Fatima Jinnah (PBUH) sister of father of the nation

Sir Alama M. Iqbal (PBUH) who had the dream of a separate muslim nation for the Muslims of India or converts

CH. Rehmat Ali (PBUH) he is known for his steadfast dedication to the idea of Pakistan. After its
formation in 1947, he argued on its behalf at the United Nations over the issue of Kashmir, and the rights
of Muslim minority of India.

Raja Aziz Bhatti who received Pakistan's highest award for courage
Rashid Rajput Minhas

and many many more who gave up their life for Pakistan yet knowone cares

you see what I mean

[quote=You]
But what he fails to realise (mainly because he is a full on retard) is that what matters is what we do, not what others do or what others have done in the past.
[/quote]

I do understad that

Ok let me ask you, what is going to happen to the people who were around BEFORE ISLAM?

[quote=You]
I will be accountable for my actions and my actions alone.
[/quote]

If we started thinking like that we would not sin at all

[quote=You]
In the same way, when it comes to heritage, while you can draw links to many places in many ways, what matters is what you learn from it.
[/quote]
What I have learnt is that my ancestors were raped and converted to Islam, 100 or 200 yrs ago

[quote=You]
You learn from the good, leave the bad and you try to be good people.
[/quote]

you can't

[quote=You]
That is what good - not the backwards minded and cultural views of some which say that their ancestors did something wrong, so they must also do that same thing.

In Islam sin does not pass from one person to another.
[/quote]
thats a good thing

[quote=lollywood]Ok let me ask you, what is going to happen to the people who were around BEFORE ISLAM?[/quote]

This is a question that the likes of christianity struggle with.

but guess what? we are not christians!

There were prophets from the start of humanity - from Prophet Adam (as) all the way to prophet Muhammad (saw), the final messenger.

All communities were sent messengers from within them.

The people will be judged by the message delivered to them.

For those that may not have heard the message from any prophet, or recieved it in a distorted form, what would matter is what they did and thought with their own heads. If they tried to be good (God has instilled an innate nature of goodness in people), tried to find the truth, contemplated on stuff - then even if they never got any of the messages they will not be held accountable for this.

(I dont care if your parents were Muslim or not - they live their lives, you live yours. The only thing that matters right now is that you are not Muslim and are here not to learn but to try and misguide others. I am tolerating you because you are doing such a poor job of it.)

As for the naming of a missile, how does it matter? its a missile. for all I care it could be called x30147658n42 - the name will not change the nature of what it is.

As for a historical link to the name ghaznavi, Mahmud of Ghazni ruled over land which is now covered by Afghanistan, Iran and Pakistan.

[quote=You]This is a question that the likes of christianity struggle with.

but guess what? we are not christians!

There were prophets from the start of humanity - from Prophet Adam (as) all the way to prophet Muhammad (saw), the final messenger.

All communities were sent messengers from within them.

The people will be judged by the message delivered to them.

For those that may not have heard the message from any prophet, or recieved it in a distorted form, what would matter is what they did and thought with their own heads. If they tried to be good (God has instilled an innate nature of goodness in people), tried to find the truth, contemplated on stuff - then even if they never got any of the messages they will not be held accountable for this.
[/quote]

Not fair

[quote=You]
(I dont care if your parents were Muslim or not - they live their lives, you live yours. The only thing that matters right now is that you are not Muslim and are here not to learn but to try and misguide others. I am tolerating you because you are doing such a poor job of it.)
[/quote]

How can you prove that I was never a Muslim?

[quote=You]
As for the naming of a missile, how does it matter? its a missile. for all I care it could be called x30147658n42 - the name will not change the nature of what it is.
[/quote]

Ok it does not change the nature of what it does why not name it after the people who helped you get that land? if they did not Ghaznavi could not have done anything

[quote=You]
As for a historical link to the name ghaznavi, Mahmud of Ghazni ruled over land which is now covered by Afghanistan, Iran and Pakistan.[/quote]
[/quote]

But he was not a Pakistani and he did not do anything for them

ok, so your view is that heritage is good and ok. As long as that heritage does not link to historical Muslim figures.

[quote=lollywood]

What I have learnt is that my ancestors were raped and converted to Islam, 100 or 200 yrs ago
[/quote]

i've been trying not to insult you but you're making this really hard.

how would a religion that people did not want and were forced into would pass down all the way to you? wouldnt they throw it out as soon as they could. or did they think some ghosts were holding them at ghostly gunpoint and would haunt them forever and curse them forever if they even THOUGHT about leaving islam. coz everyone knows ghosts can read thought. and can walk through material stuff but can stil hurt you.

oh no wait!! they were blackmailed right? into accepting islam? "if you do not keep islam we will come back as ghosts and rape your daughters" is that it? i knew it man!! this is IT!!

no wait..maybe it was some invention they invented in the desert in arabia. a gadget that wipes your memory and that changes your genes somehow that you have no freewill and that this no-freewillness is passed down to the kids. so then they make the people muslims and then because of this no freewillness the kids are still muslims! AMAZIN! WHY DIDNT I THINK OF THAT BEFORE!!!!!!

and maybe its not ghost. maybe its some doctor who thing going on where they actually come back in flesh and bones and rape and do all sorts right?

geez man. now i understand why the people who were supposedly (with no evidence yet) forced into islam, their kids are STILL muslims. and HAPPY! that explains the happy bit! they have no freewill!! of course you'd be happy if you had no freewill!! i cant believe i was blindfolded for so long.

oh and admin. thank you for that title. couldnt have put it better myself!

[quote=Lilly]
i've been trying not to insult you but you're making this really hard.

how would a religion that people did not want and were forced into would pass down all the way to you? wouldnt they throw it out as soon as they could. or did they think some ghosts were holding them at ghostly gunpoint and would haunt them forever and curse them forever if they even THOUGHT about leaving islam. coz everyone knows ghosts can read thought. and can walk through material stuff but can stil hurt you.
[/quote]

They fought back but then they were told about the good things that are going to be happening in jannat and they were frightened of the things that were told to them about Qayamat or Dozakh hell, to make sure they converted it was said to them that the things they had been doing in the past were considered gunah E- Qabira and Gunah –E- Saghira and Allah would will only forgive them if they converted to Islam and in the end they gave in and converted to Islam

[quote=Lilly]
oh no wait!! they were blackmailed right? into accepting islam? "if you do not keep islam we will come back as ghosts and rape your daughters" is that it? i knew it man!! this is IT!!
[/quote]

We're going to loot your house burn it down and kill your men and rape your women [at least that's what is told]

[quote=Lilly]
no wait..maybe it was some invention they invented in the desert in arabia. a gadget that wipes your memory and that changes your genes somehow that you have no freewill and that this no-freewillness is passed down to the kids. so then they make the people muslims and then because of this no freewillness the kids are still muslims! AMAZIN! WHY DIDNT I THINK OF THAT BEFORE!!!!!!
and maybe its not ghost. maybe its some doctor who thing going on where they actually come back in flesh and bones and rape and do all sorts right?
[/quote]

Plesae

[quote=Lilly]
geez man. now i understand why the people who were supposedly (with no evidence yet) forced into islam, their kids are STILL muslims. and HAPPY! that explains the happy bit! they have no freewill!! of course you'd be happy if you had no freewill!! i cant believe i was blindfolded for so long.[/quote]

Muslims do leave Islam but they're scared to tell people

Lollywood do you mind sharing your childhood experience on here?
It's related to the topic in that I'd like to see how your family affected you 🙂

Muslims do leave Islam but they're scared to tell people

why should they be?!?! we build bonfires for them!!!

[quote=ThE pOwEr Of SiLeNcE]Lollywood do you mind sharing your childhood experience on here?
It's related to the topic in that I'd like to see how your family affected you :)[/quote]

I've done the impossible I've finally interested someone lol

[quote=Lilly]
why should they be?!?!
[/quote]
In case someone harms them

[quote=Lilly]
we build bonfires for them!!![/quote]
[/quote]

They don't know how to thank you for that noble gesture

French Muslims girls are evil and funny at the same time, what can do huh?
give them a few cashews I say?

[quote=lollywood][quote=ThE pOwEr Of SiLeNcE]Lollywood do you mind sharing your childhood experience on here?
It's related to the topic in that I'd like to see how your family affected you :)[/quote]

I've done the impossible I've finally interested someone lol[/quote]
Yep, c'mon then, share the story 🙂

Arabs are the most noble people in lineage, the most prominent, and the best in deeds. We were the first to respond to the call of the Prophet. We are Allah’s helpers and the viziers of His Messenger. We fight people until they believe in Allah. (Al Tabari Vol IX number 69)

The reason for their greatness was that they accepted and enforced Islam.

The ones that were the first to respond to to call of the prophet ﷺ were indeed special. but that is not because of lineage and most would have had to reject the beliefs of their forefathers in order to attain that greatness.

[quote=You]The reason for their greatness was that they accepted and en- forced Islam.
[/quote]
We did as well

[quote=You]
The ones that were the first to respond to to call of the prophet ﷺ were indeed special.
[/quote]
Why?
Is this a race about who does it first?

[quote=You]
but that is not because of lineage and most would have had to reject the beliefs of their forefathers in order to attain that greatness.[/quote]

We rejected the beliefs of our forefathers and they were KINGS we were not given the status of greatness still the Arabs see us as " Mawali, Chura, Mussali they even think the same about high caste converts like RAJPUT MUSLIM

The SYED’s are the most arrogant then the SIDDIQUI, (children of Abu Bakar Siddique RA) FAROOQI, (Children of Umar Farooq (R.A)
QURESHI (Children of Mohmmed (PBUH’s family)

These families arounf the world all claim Arab ancestry

No, its because they chose the truth when everyone else was against it.

It is only you who seems to be obsessed with those other words. and you can maintain it if you want but the rest of the world has moved on.

We did as well

no you didnt.

you have admitted yourself that you are not Muslim. stop pretending to be a part of the "we". you arent.

[quote=You]
you have admitted yourself that you are not Muslim. stop pretending to be a part of the "we". you arent.[/quote]

We the rest of my family

You didn’t answer the rest

Egypt
90% Arab look at the state of it

Syria
90% Arab look at the state of it

Libya
97% Arab look at the state of it

Jordan
98% Arab look at the state of it

Bahrain
51.4 Arab look at the state of it

All butchering one and other

and?

[quote=You]and?[/quote]

Why are they all butchering one and other?

Some do it in the name of fiqa which I think is a form of bigotry

Listen to this and wake up if you don't understand urdu I can translate for you
English one is not available

[video:/http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88twc5pogxM[/video]

you sometimes have to back up your points and give evidence instead of just slinging mud.

Answering them is easy.

For instance a large amount of the current violence can be attributed to the undoing of the world order created by the British empire a century ago. That is unraveling and before things return to a more natural norm, there is more chaos.

But I would guess that you wouldnt understand the above paragraph.

Now, you need to link this with ancestry and belief somehow.

WHy are North Korea and South Korea almost always on a war footing? how will you link that?

[quote=You]you sometimes have to back up your points and give evidence instead of just slinging mud.

Answering them is easy.

For instance a large amount of the current violence can be attributed to the undoing of the world order created by the British empire a century ago.
[/quote]

Who killed Bin Qasim? The British
Who killed Siraj uddin Dohla? The British

Does the death of one person wash over the lives of hundreds of thousands of others?

The early Muslim world did have death and assasination of important people, but the average person was way better off in general.

It became so important and pivotal to all around it because it provided a better civil society than other places around it.

But how is this linked to ancestry?

What we say is follow what is right and not what has always been done.

[quote=lollywood]Listen to this and wake up if you don't understand urdu I can translate for you
English one is not available

[video:/http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88twc5pogxM[/video][/quote]

An angry man ranting.

[quote=You]Does the death of one person wash over the lives of hundreds of thousands of others?
[/quote]

I did not mean that, my point was you can't blame everything on the British

[quote=You]
The early Muslim world did have death and assasination of important people, but the average person was way better off in general.
[/quote]
Are you kidding me?
There's a saying in Urdu 2 Waqt ki roti were did that come from?

[quote=You]
It became so important and pivotal to all around it because it provided a better civil society than other places around it.
[/quote]
Did I see the word civil? Khuda ka naam lo for god sake

Muslims are not civil they’re killing their own people and have done since Islam begin who killed Hazrat Ali (R.A)
Imam Hassan and Hussain?

[quote=You]
But how is this linked to ancestry?
[/quote]

Listen to the video I’ve posted at 18:42 to 20:53 if you or anyone can't understand Urdu then ask me and I will translate it for u

[quote=You]
What we say is follow what is right and not what has always been done.[/quote]

What is right?
The Sunni way, wahabi way or the shia way?

Do you actually understand what is read or written?

my point was you can't blame everything on the British

I dont. but we cannot ignore the deliberate designs from 100 years ago and their effects on the arab world now - it was deliberately carved up into small states that hadnt existed before with an aim of keeping them squabbling and weak. It worked for a century and maybe a bit longer depending on how long the leaders there take to sort their act out. That is not to discount foreign interventions in that century too, which have also taken place, often to get rid of popular leaders and groups that had the ear of the population (Iran, Algeria, possibly Turkey, Syria, Egypt and others too.).

This doesnt make the locals totally innocent but if you ignore the complexity and the reasons for why things are the way they are, your arguments become totally bogus.

[quote=You]
I dont. but we cannot ignore the deliberate designs from 100 years ago and their effects on the arab world now- it was deliberately carved up into small states that hadnt existed before with an aim of keeping them squabbling and weak.
[/quote]

Muslims cant do Eid on the same day as each other how are they going to get together? if they did some how the sunni and shia would end up killing each other and the casualty rates would be far far higher then any currant invasion if you want to call it that

[quote=You]
That is not to discount foreign interventions in that century too, which have also taken place, often to get rid of popular leaders and groups that had the ear of the population (Iran, Algeria, possibly Turkey, Syria, Egypt and others too.).
[/quote]

Lets take Iraq when Saddam was captured I saw people dancing on the streets and throwing shows at his pictures

Mubarak I heard people saying gooooo toooo heeeel mubarak la mubark la mubark same with Bashar ul asad

The Sunni leaders of Bahran don't want to let go of power they are power hungry despite the majority Shia's protesting, Muslims just love power or in funny terms Musalmano se Iqtedar hazam nahin hota

[quote=lollywood] Muslims just love power [/quote]

thats where you're wrong. stop chatting crap. Leave muslims alone please. they are NONE of your business.

Admin, why do you argue with him? and how about you post a blogpost about what you think is happening in middle east? i like your ideas. i wish you werent wasting telling them on someone who isnt really paying attention. And i wanna hear more. and im sure others do too.

[quote=lollywood]Muslims cant do Eid on the same day as each other how are they going to get together?[/quote]

Who says it needs to be done together?

It would be nice, but its not necessary.

your version of unity is one that soviet russia would be proud of. Comrade Stalin would be proud.

For everyone else, unity is being able to tolerate differences of opinion.

Not everyone likes pasta.

[quote=You]
Who says it needs to be done together?
It would be nice, but its not necessary.
[/quote]

Where is itehad ul Muslimin?

[quote=You]
For everyone else, unity is being able to tolerate differences of opinion.
[/quote] Again Khuda ka naam lo:)

Muslims and tolerance

Abd-al-Rahman ibn Muljam al-Sarimi,was the cousin brother of prophet Mohammed

WHAT DID HE DO? He assassinated Caliph Ali ibn Abi Talib (r.a)

Yazīd ibn Mu‘āwiya ibn Abī Sufyān who was the second Caliph of the Umayyad

WHAT DID HE DO? He killed baby Ali Asghar ibn Hussain (r.a)

Why don't the Muslims tolerate the Ahmediyya Muslims?
Was Al-Mutawakkil tolerant of the Shia?

Sunni and Shia have being killing each other for ages so I don't see any tolerance among Muslims, Sunni and Shia don't even pray at the same masjid, Shia open fast at a different time

If there was tolerance and itehad then no Muslim country would have ever been invaded

LISTEN TO THE WHOLE VIDEO if any of you don't understand ask me to translate

[video:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ucSRVOIUQgU&feature=related[/video]