There have been "caliphates" til 1924. Not in the singular and I think I have quite convincingly proven that with the help of pretty pictures from a single time in history (though we can go both forwards and backwards from there).
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"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
Submitted by Anonymous1 (not verified) on 2 June, 2010 - 19:04 #32
I have not disputed from the start there have not been parallel Caliphates - Andalus and Fatimids come to mind which the scholars addressed historically.
The point I raised which it appears you agree is that there has been one continuous legitimate Caliphate (Rashida, Umawiyya, Abassiya, Uthmaniya) till 1924 all of whom faced problems of their time which they had to address.
I disagree with the "one" in "one continuous". I would say "multiple overlapping" is more accurate.
and if we be lax about the rules, we can say that there are multiple caliphates now and thus it did not end in 1924 (but that would be disingenious of me - Most muslim governments are a disgraceful farce).
And ofcourse they would all have their own "issues of the time".
—
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
Submitted by Anonymous1 (not verified) on 2 June, 2010 - 20:06 #34
It's probably more inaccurate to say multiple overlapping through history as there were not multiple overlapping caliphates in many periods of history (rashida, umawwiyya, ottoman etc).
Why is it inaccurate to say there was one continuous chain of caliphs (albeit 3 years in 1258) with some periods where there 1 or 2 competing Caliphates(Fatimid/Andalus - any others who claimed to be caliphates?) ?
There have been "caliphates" til 1924. Not in the singular and I think I have quite convincingly proven that with the help of pretty pictures from a single time in history (though we can go both forwards and backwards from there).
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
I have not disputed from the start there have not been parallel Caliphates - Andalus and Fatimids come to mind which the scholars addressed historically.
The point I raised which it appears you agree is that there has been one continuous legitimate Caliphate (Rashida, Umawiyya, Abassiya, Uthmaniya) till 1924 all of whom faced problems of their time which they had to address.
I disagree with the "one" in "one continuous". I would say "multiple overlapping" is more accurate.
and if we be lax about the rules, we can say that there are multiple caliphates now and thus it did not end in 1924 (but that would be disingenious of me - Most muslim governments are a disgraceful farce).
And ofcourse they would all have their own "issues of the time".
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
It's probably more inaccurate to say multiple overlapping through history as there were not multiple overlapping caliphates in many periods of history (rashida, umawwiyya, ottoman etc).
Why is it inaccurate to say there was one continuous chain of caliphs (albeit 3 years in 1258) with some periods where there 1 or 2 competing Caliphates(Fatimid/Andalus - any others who claimed to be caliphates?) ?
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