...We are not animals that we can't control ourselves...

Is the title true? (I am talking in general here, noy limited to any individual issue.)

If this was always the case with everyone, there would be no crime, no theft, no murder, no oppression.

There would be no need for punishments, or even a hell for people to go to.

If most people can control themselves all the time and some people can control themselves most of the time, that still leaves some people who can't or won't control themselves some of the times.

Salaam,

Doesnt this fall into the category of Jihad?

i.e struggling against your own desires/controlling ourselves with whatever ability Allah swt has given us

there's a difference between "can't" and "don't" (or even "don't want to").

Don't just do something! Stand there.

The difference in personal - to the person acting out.

To the people suffering, the damage is still done.

"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.

You wrote:
The difference in personal - to the person acting out.

To the people suffering, the damage is still done.

true, but there is still the important issue of responsibility; if it were true that people truly "can't" control themselves, then it wouldn't be possible to blame or punish them, nor would there be a need for them to apologise.

Don't just do something! Stand there.

Ya'qub wrote:
You wrote:
The difference in personal - to the person acting out.

To the people suffering, the damage is still done.

true, but there is still the important issue of responsibility; if it were true that people truly "can't" control themselves, then it wouldn't be possible to blame or punish them, nor would there be a need for them to apologise.

but how do you make the distinction?

I mean there are so many 'psychological diseases' out there now that it seems like no-one has to take responsibility for anything.

But doesn't that also take away from what we believe to be 'free will'?

#Before you look at the thorns of the rose , look at it's beauty. Before you complain about the heat of the sun , enjoy it's light. Before you complain about the blackness of the night, think of it's peace and quiet... #

We learn habits. Changing habits can be very difficult.

  • It can never be satisfied, the mind, never. -- Wallace Stevens

MakeMeRawr_6TeenF wrote:
I mean there are so many 'psychological diseases' out there now that it seems like no-one has to take responsibility for anything.

But doesn't that also take away from what we believe to be 'free will'?

psychological diseases are IMO in many cases simple cop outs. People have a choice or not whether to act on what they think.

"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.

You wrote:
MakeMeRawr_6TeenF wrote:
I mean there are so many 'psychological diseases' out there now that it seems like no-one has to take responsibility for anything.

But doesn't that also take away from what we believe to be 'free will'?

psychological diseases are IMO in many cases simple cop outs. People have a choice or not whether to act on what they think.

But DO they?
what if you're wrong?

What does the Qur'an say about them?

#Before you look at the thorns of the rose , look at it's beauty. Before you complain about the heat of the sun , enjoy it's light. Before you complain about the blackness of the night, think of it's peace and quiet... #

Joie de Vivre wrote:
We learn habits. Changing habits can be very difficult.

Absolutely, the Holy Prophet SAW said that if a man tells you he has moved a mountain, believe him, but if he tells you he has changed his habit which he had maintained for the past forty years, don't believe him.

@You: I think we can control ourselves some of the time. There are other times when for some reason we can't control ourselves.

@Ya'qub: Personal responsibility is that you are responsible for what you do freely. If you are compelled to do something, then fair enough, you should be held responsible. However, if you can't control yourself is this the same as compulsion? If yes then you shouldn't be hel responsible for the times when you can't control yourself. If no, then it indicates that there are levels of self-control. Probably from, "I won't do this" to "I'm trying not to do this" to "I know this is wrong" to "I know this is wrong but I want to" to "I can't help myself" to "it wasn't me...was it?"

@Rawry: Their are psychological diseases and there are psychological diagnoses. I would argue that writing off responsibility because you have been diagnosed with something is not right. I would also say that holding a psychologically afflicted person to the same accountability for their actions as a healthy person is also not right. Thus accountability is probably aslo in levels.

@Seraphim: We are not Seraphim, or as James MAddison said that so mad me fall in love with the spirit of the US constitution, "If men were angels..." But we aren't, despite our best intentions we can screw up...badly. The road to pergatory is lined with good intentions.
But to complete that thought, we are also not merely animals. Sure we share alot of biological material with various animals but we are not grazing live stock. "Mooo" is not the high-point of intelligent conversation. So we need to raise our level of action to match our level of awareness, that is, if we have an awareness in our heart that a particular action is wrong, then we should make sure that we don't act on that action.

I guess this is why Taqwa, "God consciousness" is "moral integrity" because the duty on the human being, regardless of theology, is not to be less than his awareness.

Gentleness and kindness were never a part of anything except that it made it beautiful, and harshness was never a part of anything except that it made it ugly.

Through cheating, stealing, and lying, one may get required results but finally one becomes

Dawud wrote:
@You: I think we can control ourselves some of the time. There are other times when for some reason we can't control ourselves.

Or simply don't want to. That is a big thing too - simply because you can be selfless, does it mean that you should be or that you want to be?

"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.