From the other topic, I wrote:

"Forever" is not a term that always applies to Islamic marriage as divorce is allowed. Besides, there is also this hadith quoted in Bukhari:

Narrated Al-Awza:

I asked Az-Zuhri, "Which of the wives of the Prophet sought refuge with Allah from him?" He said "I was told by 'Ursa that 'Aisha said, 'When the daughter of Al-Jaun was brought to Allah's Apostle (as his bride) and he went near her, she said, "I seek refuge with Allah from you." He said, "You have sought refuge with The Great; return to your family."

I also wrote:

If a spouse denies sex in a marriage, the Prophet Peace and Blessings of Allah be upon him did not say "It's your right, so get some action", rather something along the lines of God being displeased or angels cursing the individual (can't remember which).

@ Omrow - how would you feel about someone who had sexually forced themselves onto you? (actually, don't answer, just think about it. I doubt it will leave much... love between your hearts.)

with his acceptance, yes. (What if he was trying to divorce her? What if there were differences between them that were irreconcilable?)

What if the two are going through a divorce? til it is finalised, they are still legally married, even if the same rights may not apply...

Consent is necessary. Otherwise its no different from an attack. I dont know how it works for you guys, but from where I come from a husband does not attack his wife. You dont attack or hurt one of the people you cherish the most.

The true Muslim treats his wife fairly and decently, he cant be ideal if he simply treats her like a piece of property instead of as his life partner.

The relationship between husband and wife is based on love, understanding and respect. We are not animals that we can't control ourselves. Theres a way of doing everything within the universal laws of Allah (swt). Attacking your partner simply becoz you're feeling a lil randy is not one of them.

What's the point of this thread? :doubt:

The curse of Allah and His angels is on the wife who denies her husband his conjugal right. The reason for the curse isn't that she's playing hard to get with the husband, its because the husband won't get to fulfil his passionate desire. Thus, according to the Islamic understanding, it is possible for a woman to prevent her husband from fulfilling his conjugal desire.

It's cursed and its wrong, but it is possible for her to do it.

What about a husband whp says no to his wife
oddly enough, it DOES happen
what then
does he get cursed too?

Seraphim wrote:

...We are not animals that we can't control ourselves...

true, but in the general sense if this was always the case with everyone, there would be no crime, no theft, no murder, no oppression.

There would be no need for punishments, or even a hell for people to go to.

Attacking your partner simply becoz you're feeling a lil randy is not one of them.

Agreed, but at the same time, it will be something that can cause resentment and eventually lead to a broken marriage - as any denial does not have to be a one off, or even over a short period of time like those women did in that African country to protest corruption - it could be a long term thing and used as a method of control and empowerment.

(in which case, the person should MTFU and get out of there, but not everyone will.)

Omrow wrote:

Iram.

Whats the point of that eye you got?

Use it !

I have given the hint above; Read it and your question will be answered.

God !!

haha
are you always like this?

It's pretty simple, even if the evidence is generally not available. Like date rape, the claim is often unprovable but that doesn't change the morality. If someone doesn't want to have sex and they are forced, that is extremely intimidating and unpleasant. A man who lacks control in such a situation becomes a nasty bully one would not want to live with, and it would make sense to cite rape in any legal proceedings.

ok this topic confuses me.

Call a tree a tree, rape is rape. Married or not-forcing yourself on anyone who doesn't want you to is rape.

Ok so if you're married to someone you're attracted to, you're going to want to sleep with him as much as he wants to sleep with you. However, there are certain times that you don't feel up to it but this guy is MARRIED to you... He loves you so he'd understand and give you space when you needed it. And vice versa. Which is why i don't understand why it should be a SIN for a woman to deny her husband sex.

+ also Why, when you guys are talking about it do you guys make men sound like they're soulless shells who only want sex and who otherwise have no personality? These are (usually) rational people...with feelings, and the ability to empathise.

MakeMeRawr_6TeenF wrote:

Which is why i don't understand why it should be a SIN for a woman to deny her husband sex.

Kenyan Women Fight Corruption With Sex - that is deeply insulting.

A husband and wife have a duty to satisfy each other, and I have read that not living up to expectations in the bedroom department is more than enough to be a valid grounds for divorce - even for the woman.

Having reasons and other stuff is one thing, but forced abstinence can also be used as a method to control, to manipulate and to punish. (and then there is the issue of whether such things are the one off or the norm).

If it is long term, the couple need counselling.

MakeMeRawr_6TeenF wrote:

also Why, when you guys are talking about it do you guys make men sound like they're soulless shells who only want sex and who otherwise have no personality? These are (usually) rational people...with feelings, and the ability to empathise.

...and with the desire to not be manipulated? Withholding sex is seen as a technique for empowerment.

You wrote:

MakeMeRawr_6TeenF wrote:

Which is why i don't understand why it should be a SIN for a woman to deny her husband sex.

Kenyan Women Fight Corruption With Sex

Having reasons and other stuff is one thing, but forced abstinence can also be used as a method to control, to manipulate and to punish. (and then there is the issue of wether such things are the one off or the norm).

If it is long term, the couple need counselling.

MakeMeRawr_6TeenF wrote:

also Why, when you guys are talking about it do you guys make men sound like they're soulless shells who only want sex and who otherwise have no personality? These are (usually) rational people...with feelings, and the ability to empathise.

...and with the desire to not be manipulated? Withholding sex is seen as a technique for empowerment.

of course THAT is an issue, but that's totally different and at the end of the day God will judge that.

But denying his conjugal rights or whatever, isn't necessarily withholding sex repeatedly. it's even just ONCE-which is what i'm addressing.

And either way, that's something between him and her... maybe he's ugly and she's not attracted to him.

Why can't it be his fault?

Ofcourse it can be his fault (us guys can be morons) - but that would probably be considered a separate thing.

and if he is too ugly for her, divorce.

But denying his conjugal rights or whatever, isn't necessarily withholding sex repeatedly. it's even just ONCE-which is what i'm addressing.

The actual hadith I think mentions resentment/anger - where the spouse is cursed at by the angels until the other is no longer angry or something. So this is not like a one off "I am tired/ill/dying" type of thing.

The Kenyan campaign is a good thing. I especially like the detail of paying prostitutes not to have sex. If enforced abstinence is powerful enough to spread awareness of and opposition to corruption I don't see why it's insulting.

and who's to say that the prostitute will not be double dealing?

If they got rid of all corruption, would they also not potentially be out of business?

the insult is being considered corrupt. and also that the person you decided to marry thinks that little of you.

The implication is not that the husband is corrupt, and a sympathetic husband won't lose his mind in a week of abstinence. It is to bring the anti-corruption agenda to the fore through publicity and by agitating the men. There may be some (functional) corruption here, but by comparison with Kenya we are just lucky.

Never been there, so I wouldn't know how bad it is, but I just found the whole idea to be frivolous.

You wrote:

O
and if he is too ugly for her, divorce.

Omgosh.

Shallow much?

yes.

You wrote:

yes.

What if you're not that shallow, you appreciate him in other ways but you just aren't attracted to him?

Then don't marry the guy in the first place.

You can't care for someone so much that you expect that person (not you) to be abstinent for ever and ever and ever.

The husband and wife have rights over and duties to each other. If they do not fulfil them, others may, so don't be surprised if you lose the person.

("you" being in the generic and not "you" you. or even me "You".)

All IMO as I am not an expert in such situations.

I don't think it's a huge sin not to have the energy for sex at a given time. A man should intend to satisfy a woman every time, or else he will be the only one really getting any satisfaction, and he can expect sympathy for any shortcomings in that department but not if he doesn't bother. With a woman it's more complicated as women's mood and physical wellbeing are greatly affected by the time of month, and only a foolhardy man would ignore that fact and dictate his own rules. Also the burden of carrying a child is the woman's, so she won't take sex quite as lightly. Any which way, a rape is a specific and nasty thing and marriage is not an excuse. Nothing is an excuse.

You wrote:

The husband and wife have rights over and duties to each other. If they do not fulfil them, others may, so don't be surprised if you lose the person.

Pft.

Any guy who goes to another woman for sex just because his wife didn't feel like it a couple of times wasn't worth marrying in the first place.

Why can't he fill his time better by... doing something spiritual? or positive in a different way. It's not like he's gonna DIE if he doesn't have sex every day. they both need to work on it, not just him or just her.

Both have a duty to satisfy each other, but if there is a reason why having sex at that paritcular time isn't a good idea, then both of them should respect that. And realise thatsex isn't everything.

Omrow wrote:

1R4M wrote:

What about a husband who says no to his wife

oddly enough, it DOES happen

what then

Iram.

Whats the point of that eye you got?

Use it !

I have given the hint above; Read it and your question will be answered.

God !!

That made NO sense
and did NOT answer my questin

and I'm sure if a wife said 'no' once in a while, the husband isn't gonna start foaming at the mouth and run around like a sex starved lunatic

ps
this isn't my eye
so whatever