dude i know you wont get punished if you have intention yet not commit , not the point i was trying to make ,, i was saying that even though u don't perform sex out of marriage when your gay the fact is you still have the belief that your gay ,'not intention,' that's different,

Yes its fear of God that stops u performing sin . i was saying about giving into nufs desires...yes it is upto them if they want to give into that desire of gayness .lol the point i was tryna make , perhaps i was unclear ,sorry in advance 4 that. ..Beyonces ugly BTW

St786

Yeah i read about this earlier today was gonna make topic but just never felt right , i mean the writers are doin this on purpose to make musllims look bad ,

and some retard in the article on bbc said u can be gay and muslim aswel and im thinkin are you off your nut or something RETARD< i think i can use abuse in tthis case lol

Its just what they wana do to portray us like hypocrits and stuff

Brother, I completely agree with your last sentence, I wrote an article ages ago about the 'muslim' family in Eastenders and HYPOCRISY is a word that stood out the most. E.g. When their relatives come to visit they all start wearing their dupattay and suddenly its "asalaamalaikum", then during Ramadan they fast and eat whilst hiding behind their own food stall. Her son has a girlfriend, what does she do? Ring her for lunch, lol can we see our mums doing that? Forget lunch her shoe size would be stamped on our foreheads. The Masood family are more cultural than Islamic, big difference.

With being Gay, as you said in a later post, its a SIN, SubhanAllah Allah swt is CLEAR that homosexuality is a sin, why do we justify it when we know that a whole nation was erased off the face of this earth because they indulged in this vice? If it was permitted surely the nation of Lot a.s. would not have faced one of the worst punishments? Allah detests those who commit homosexuality so we stand on that point, there is no compromise it should not be like "oh he/she is gay but theyr a nice person and I shall be nice to them because apart from their sexuality they're good". wE hate what Allah hates. BUT OF COURSE we would not forget our fard to bring Islam to a person who may be committing this or any other sin, we would try to guide them inshaAllah but thats very different to accepting it or consenting to it.

I think this all boils down to this new debate about 'British Islam', how you can be muslim but yet still have the liberty and freedoms that come by being British. So yeah you wouldnt pray at work but you would go make up for it at home, you will read dua over your food (another classic eastenders moment 'Bismillah lets eat!') but when it comes to speaking in Arabic outside the home oooh noo you dont want to do that, it might offend somebody! God Forbid they might thing your seying "lets bomb them" when you say "Alhamdullilah". Of course you can hold on to your beliefs but if you want to sleep with a man and youre a man, fine, if you want to have a girlfriend and keep her in your house without Nikah and hide her in a cupboard, fine. If you want to spy on your son whilst having left him in a room alone with a girl, go for it!!

I hate to sound like its a conspiracy but more and more the agenda to force Islam within four walls of the home is becoming clear, as they did with Christianity before this. As Muslims we ourselves sometimes forget how much

at odds

British freedoms and values are to Islamic values, Hayah just being one of them!

At the end of the day Eastenders is a soap that sooo many Muslims watch and more importantly muslim CHILDREN watch it, and if they see on this programme that its okay to be gay and muslim, of course theyre going to adopt these beliefs which like it or not, are completely against Islam and damaging the Ummah.

I was watching Occupied on BBC1 which portrayed the Iraq war, its amazing what cheap entertainment can do to the masses it reaches, to the point where it can change views on major world events and make us believe romanticized fiction. Its disgusting.

afzana_javed wrote:

Allah detests those who commit homosexuality so we stand on that point, there is no compromise it should not be like "oh he/she is gay but theyr a nice person and I shall be nice to them because apart from their sexuality they're good". wE hate what Allah hates. BUT OF COURSE we would not forget our fard to bring Islam to a person who may be committing this or any other sin, we would try to guide them inshaAllah but thats very different to accepting it or consenting to it.

Completely wrong on that.

It is only Allah (swt) who can judge a person.

As Muslims, ALL we can do it hate the ACT. We shouldn't hate the PERSON who is performing the act.

If the person is a Muslim, we should love them WHETHER THEY ARE GAY OR NOT. We should love ALL Muslims simply BECAUSE THEY ARE MUSLIMS, regardless of their background, class, madhab, sect, sexuality. All those things are COMPLETELY secondary to BELIEF IN THE ONENESS OF GOD.

If someone doesn't pray, ALL we can do is tell them they should pray, that it is compulsory etc. we CAN'T tell them that they are going to hell, and we can't hate them either.

And that is PRAYER. On the Day of Judgement the first thing everyone will be questioned about is their PRAYER. NOT who they had sex with.

So how can you say we should HATE a Muslim who is gay, if we shouldn't hate a Muslim who doesn't pray?

You wrote:

1R4M wrote:

I bet when the storyline happens some morons will start protesting on the streets and embarrass us all

Their free and democratic right to do so. Its IMO more embarrassing to think that people standing up for what they believe is embarrassing. Let those that may want to do that go their own way.

its not protesting I have a problem with
its the way some people do it

Once again yaqub is the voice of reason

I dont see why everyone goes on about how the masood family are "hypocrites"
first of all
its a TV programme!
secondly
noone's perfect
theyre not there to represent a perfect muslim family
n the whole wearing a dupatta when relatives come over etc thats just culture; desi people don the dupatta when the elders are over, as they think its respectful
as for his mother inviting the girlfriend round for dinner
she only did that because she wanted to get them married asap
its a universal thing
the son does something wrong but noones says anything
the daughter does something n shes punished for it

its a tv programme, n its not intended to really educate people about muslims or islam
they just added a "muslim" family in it so they could be politically corrext- they needed more brown faces

Ahh eastenders...i quit watching that agess ago. It got boring. I heard my friends talking about the muslim gay. It made me laugh its just a tv program ! there is no point in protesting or anything. There are gay muslims in the world you dont go protesting about them now do you?
And its Gay Pride Day today! LOL

If the person is a Muslim, we should love them WHETHER THEY ARE GAY OR NOT. We should love ALL Muslims simply BECAUSE THEY ARE MUSLIMS, regardless of their background, class, madhab, sect, sexuality. All those things are COMPLETELY secondary to BELIEF IN THE ONENESS OF GOD.

i think certain sects matter i.e those that have erronous beliefs that can take you out of the fold of islam. likewise sexuality matters. If a individual is muslim but they are acting out their feelings on the same gender it would matter to me. Allah and his messenger has informed us we will be like those companions we keep company with. So whether you like it or not someones, sexuality, sect and other factors can have negative or positive effects on our spiritual wellbeing. It won't necessarily turn me gay overnight but it can have other negative effects i/e i may begin to think nothing wrong with being gay, its a life choice, if my kids are gay heck i won't care! I would not be pally with a mate who has made it clear that they are gay, and think being gay is fine within the realms of Islam. I would keep in touch and try and alter their thinking, but i would not be intimate and laugh away like everything is fine and dandy.

Our example is in our prophet (saw), what sort of company did he keep. Did he regularly sit with these sort of sinners, and revel in their jokes, partake of their food, join them for worship? I can't think of a single occasion when he (saW) did, so why should muslims today? Yet i can think of numerous occasions when he told us not to sit with sinners, not to come near any sin they committed let alone contemplate it. hate the sin not the sinner, is that even a islamic concept? Sounds very christian.Not that i have anything against them, i simply don't think that mantra is in line with islamic thought, but i could be wrong, as many have proven again and again.

Hajjar wrote:

hate the sin not the sinner, is that even a islamic concept? Sounds very christian.

I've never been a Christian or learned much about it other than the basic stories/parables of the Bible, so I don't know. It could be, as Christianity has many similarities to Islam.

I don't have any sources at hand or anything, but I learned from Muslims the importance of separating the sin from the person who commits it. The rationale behind it is the fact that Allah (swt) alone is the Judge of each individual. All we can do, whether as a scholar or a layman, is try our best to discover which acts are permissible or forbidden in Islam, and try to follow that code and enjoin good and forbid evil among our companions as much as we can.

For me, that would not be to push a 'gay Muslim' (or even a Muslim with questionable aqida) away from the mainstream of the Muslim community. In my opinion that is the path to more fragmentation/extremism than there already is. I leave it to the scholars to identify which groups/sects fall outside the fold of Islam.

Rather, I would try to sit with them (as long as they weren't flaunting sinful behavior of any form with me or towards me) and encourage them to pray and fast and give charity etc etc.

But I understand your side too. There is a hadith that says we will be raised on the Day of Judgment with the people whose company we kept in this life.

I think it all comes down to if they can or can't benefit us and/or if we feel we can or can't benefit them. If we honestly feel we have nothing to offer that could help them, then of course we shouldn't take them as supporters/friends.

afzana_javed wrote:

St786

Yeah i read about this earlier today was gonna make topic but just never felt right , i mean the writers are doin this on purpose to make musllims look bad ,

and some retard in the article on bbc said u can be gay and muslim aswel and im thinkin are you off your nut or something RETARD< i think i can use abuse in tthis case lol

Its just what they wana do to portray us like hypocrits and stuff

Brother, I completely agree

Yh i pretty much agreed with everything u said..simple as that haram is haram no reason to reason with it...even if a gay person is nice ..fact is there still doing a major sin that Allah hates and we should also hate for that metter the sin that is being committed....lol watching eastenders recently i saw that 'syeed' is regrettin what he done so question is will he repent and not be a 'gay' or will he give into desires again....does not really matte as its just TV but this stuff happens in real life

Ya'qub wrote:

afzana_javed wrote:

Allah detests those who commit homosexuality so we stand on that point, there is no compromise it should not be like "oh he/she is gay but theyr a nice person and I shall be nice to them because apart from their sexuality they're good". wE hate what Allah hates. BUT OF COURSE we would not forget our fard to bring Islam to a person who may be committing this or any other sin, we would try to guide them inshaAllah but thats very different to accepting it or consenting to it.

Completely wrong on that.

It is only Allah (swt) who can judge a person.

As Muslims, ALL we can do it hate the ACT. We shouldn't hate the PERSON who is performing the act.

If the person is a Muslim, we should love them WHETHER THEY ARE GAY OR NOT. We should love ALL Muslims simply BECAUSE THEY ARE MUSLIMS, regardless of their background, class, madhab, sect, sexuality. All those things are COMPLETELY secondary to BELIEF IN THE ONENESS OF GOD.

Yh but can a person be a muslim if they are gay at the same time..dont make sense...no such thing as a gay muslim

St786 wrote:

Ya'qub wrote:

afzana_javed wrote:

Allah detests those who commit homosexuality so we stand on that point, there is no compromise it should not be like "oh he/she is gay but theyr a nice person and I shall be nice to them because apart from their sexuality they're good". wE hate what Allah hates. BUT OF COURSE we would not forget our fard to bring Islam to a person who may be committing this or any other sin, we would try to guide them inshaAllah but thats very different to accepting it or consenting to it.

Completely wrong on that.

It is only Allah (swt) who can judge a person.

As Muslims, ALL we can do it hate the ACT. We shouldn't hate the PERSON who is performing the act.

If the person is a Muslim, we should love them WHETHER THEY ARE GAY OR NOT. We should love ALL Muslims simply BECAUSE THEY ARE MUSLIMS, regardless of their background, class, madhab, sect, sexuality. All those things are COMPLETELY secondary to BELIEF IN THE ONENESS OF GOD.

Yh but can a person be a muslim if they are gay at the same time..dont make sense...no such thing as a gay muslim

Obviously there are since Gay Muslims exist :roll:

Define Muslim and Define Gay because i believe it's possible.

You wrote:

Definitions are important and do matter.

I know. That's why i said it.

You wrote:

Definitions are important and do matter.

If you define Gay as person a person who not only commits same gender acts of a sexual nature, but also BELIEVES that there is nothing wrong with it and that there is no sin in the actions, then that does go too far. Being "openly gay" atleast to me suggests the latter - that the person thinks there is nothing wrong with it, that it is not a sin.

Homosexuality is being physically (maybe emotionally, I don't know) attracted to members of the same sect.

It's not a 'belief'.

Anyway...

I understand people's concern that if we, as a wider community, 'tolerate' and 'apologise' for gays within our community, that it might lead to our own children being gay or the erosion/dilution of the Islamic doctrine in the long run. This is of course a terrible thing which we should guard against.

HOWEVER:

There is also a danger that young, vulnerable people might be confused about sexuality and feel they can't turn to their parents, Muslim friends or community leaders because of the stigma attached and very real threat of violence.

This could lead them seeking help from non-Muslims, who might give advice such as "don't worry about all that, let's get drunk and forget your problems." This could in turn lead to further alienation from mainstream community and then the door by which a young person might come back to mainstream Islam might appear SHUT to them forever.

Between these two extremes, we should try to identify which is more likely, and put more effort into avoiding THAT, rather than the other extreme.

This way, insha'Allah, we are more likely to be closer to the MIDDLE PATH.

From where I'm standing it is quite clear that there is much more danger of the SECOND extreme happening than the former, so that is why I advocate support for/dialogue with young Muslims. Gay or not. Educate them but show the importance of tawhid, of faith, of life-after-death. THIS is what is important.

HOW DO YOU EXPECT SOMEONE TO FOLLOW/RESPECT ISLAM IF THEY DON'T EVEN UNDERSTAND WHAT IT MEANS?

IF, in the future, there suddenly becomes a big danger of 'gay Islam' being preached in the mosques by so-called 'imams', and a new 'sect' forming which views homosexuality as 'all right with God', THEN I would advocate making a clean break between the 'homosects' and Sunni Islam.

To define broadly

'Gay'/Homosexual is one of the three sexualities, and is someone who is attracted to people of the same sex and may believe in AND/OR act upon these sense of their individual sexuality. (Hence to some extent this influences their life, their values and actions as he may or may not satisfy this desire)

A Muslim is someone who accepts the Aqeedah of Islam, believing there is only One God, and believing in his: Angels, Books, Prophets, The Day of Judgment, Predestination (fate). Thus this belief will influence his life, his values and actions as he will satisfy these beliefs through various forms of obedience and actions.

Although homosexuality itself isnt a whole system of life the way Islam is, it still does affect that person's daily affairs, So how is it that these two separate ways of lives can be harmonised into one to make a Gay Muslim...?
From what I know and I am aware of, Homosexuality has no room within the Islamic way of life (that is why it is HARAM), and belief in ALLAH and his BOOKS and what his MESSENGERS before us taught us, should make it clear to us that being gay and Muslim is NOT something we should even dream of existing as. Its something that is at complete odds. That is why such things are Haram but these are the very things being promoted alongside Islam under the pretence of 'gay muslim' or 'british Islam'.
This notion of a 'gay muslim' it is a social construct from this Kufr society as I would like to point out no such term existed under Islam for centuries!

The love/hate thing- we DO love and hate for the sake of ALLAH, we hate homosexuality and that is plain. Just as we hate adultery and alcohol and riba and so on. But like I have said before it is Fard to do Dawah and more importantly to do it with Hikma to these people who believe Islam has room for haraam like homosexuality.

At the end of the day we dont love sin, we would not love the flames of Hell, we would not love to smell the scent of our burning flesh. What I meant before when I was talking about this is we would not ignore someone's homosexuality and still love them for the Sake of Allah, whilst neglecting our FARD. This would be the same with any other situation where we see someone committing sin isn't it? It goes back to your accountability.
We are only the means by which people can change, the ultimate decision to guide is ALLAH swt's.

P.s I think there is already a big danger of Gay Islam as it is already a topic being discussed, the question is WHEN do you take a stance? At the beginning when the ball has been set in motion, or when it's rolling full speed downhill? When does the moment come for us to put our foot down?

I think that if non muslims want to get involved in homo acts then thats their burden and fault..however again to gove dawa is important and that duty should not be ignored

but if it is tolerated in islam then this could lead to such tolerances such as 'gay muslim' which is just soo wrong because 'being gay' is completely forbidden in islam 'harram' no reasoning with it..

so i feel that dont wait for it to become a big problem as it can be argued already has,,,the problem should be sorted out from day one ..

its like anything else for example drinking..most muslim parents from day one forcefully say drinking is haram so can never be involved in... So the same should be done with homosexuality...problem is who can youth of today turn to ofcourse not their parents IMO as it would lead to disowning etc

but i feel if parents could like anything else haram educate their children properly and not be scared to talk about such things then there may not be the problems we face today such as concept of being gay in islam and such concepts of dating, gambling etc

afzana_javed wrote:

To define broadly

A Muslim is someone who accepts the Aqeedah of Islam, believing there is only One God, and believing in his: Angels, Books, Prophets, The Day of Judgment, Predestination (fate). Thus this belief will influence his life, his values and actions as he will satisfy these beliefs through various forms of obedience and actions.

But you have to accept that none of us are even CLOSE to being 'perfect' Muslims. We all sin, every day.

And if someone is 'gay', that just means they have urges to have sex. What if they DON'T give into their urges? What if they NEVER had sex? What if they did that for the sake of Allah?

Would they still be classed as a Muslim?
Would they still be gay?

I count myself as strait, even though I'm not married and don't have sex, so surely a celibate person who is attracted to members of their own sex is STILL gay?

Therefore: a 'gay Muslim'.

But you have to accept that none of us are even CLOSE to being 'perfect' Muslims. We all sin, every day.

Lol I was defining what a Muslim believes in, Not what a 'perfect' Muslim is. The thing is a person can sin but their Aqeedah will always remain the same; a Muslim might drink alcohol or commit other sins but essentially he still believes in ALLAH, he still believes in the Afterlife and he stills understands it is a sin and he would be punished. His actions may fall in line with obeying this but like u said people sin so he may disobey also. We are Insaan so naturally we will make mistakes I wasnt defining a 'perfect' Muslim as the list would obviously be much longer than that and impossible to achieve.

Just wanted to make a quick point. Someone said before that being gay and muslim is not possible, to which (i think) someone replied yes it is possible.
If there was a young Muslim who was confused about this and did come to, for example me, and asked what Islam says about homosexuality, and imagine if I said "Being gay and a muslim is a possibility".
SubhanAllah my job which should have been to break down misconceptions and give him Islam. Instead by compromising what Islam really says about homosexuality, I consented to something which ALLAH has not consented to. And at the same time even encouraged this person to go away and think it is permissible.

And if someone is 'gay', that just means they have urges to have sex. What if they DON'T give into their urges? What if they NEVER had sex? What if they did that for the sake of Allah?

Would they still be classed as a Muslim?
Would they still be gay?

I count myself as strait, even though I'm not married and don't have sex, so surely a celibate person who is attracted to members of their own sex is STILL gay?

Therefore: a 'gay Muslim'.

Sorry but I cant for the life of me engage in this philosophical psychobabble. There is no need for me to even go down this route of using my own brain to determine where the boundaries are of when a person is still classified as straight or gay or not. Allah alone knows.

well i think this storylines over.

basically the gay muslim fees he made a mistake and is ignoring his desires cuz he believes he's a good muslim. The guy he kissed doesnt believe he can "lie" to himself and tells him he really cares about him etc, but the gay muslim just keeps telling him to go away and to prove he really doesnt wanna be gay he proposes to his GF.

the end.

i felt kinda sorry for the other gay guy LOL

and now im gna go bak to watching random episodes of enders.

for a start saeed isnt a muslim his name is simon!
secondly- our creator made things in pairs, night and day- hot and cold- hard and soft- fast and slow- moon and the sun- dry and wet...
man and woman
it is written that towards the last day signs will be shown that the end is near one of which is youngsters wont respect their elders ( we can all relate to that )
islam and christianity will goto war
i think its time to to ponder if our lonely graves are to be a garden of paradise or a pit of hell
as we are best of all creation- and best of the best. we are supposed to be a means of guidance for the others....

harun wrote:

for a start saeed isnt a muslim his name is simon!

?

harun wrote:

for a start saeed isnt a muslim his name is simon!

I have a friend called Simon who's a Muslim!

You need to get out more.

First of all, I want to say that it is really inappropriate to call someone a retard and say they are off their nut, clearly YOU are the one making us muslims look bad.
Secondly, if you had read the whole article from a non-biased view, you would have realised that they are not trying to portray Muslims as bad. They are trying to respresent the inner conflicts and struggles that people have to go through, even people from ethnic minorities, and to be honest, there are many people out there who are Muslim and are struggling with their sexuality. Many people in Britain don't see homosexuality as bad anyway, so it wouldn't be any different coming from a Muslim.
Also, in reference to "the retard in the article on bbc who said you can be gay and muslim", there are Muslims out there who think it is acceptable, they interpret the Quran in different ways and whilst I don't believe homosexuality is allowed in Islam, I am tolerant of their views, as you should be.
I think it's ok for you to air your views, obviously you disagree with the storyline, but please do it in a respectable manner and not one that demotes others for their opinions.

No one can make something haram, halal, their interpretations are wrong and they should be told that if they are Muslims and believe it is ok.

This is sick, we have enough homosexuality going on as it is with out this nonsense

2 men were thrown out for kissing in a pub a few day ago