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Btw all that is haram is stated in the Quran and the rest wich aint stated is halal so thats why its common sense for the person declarin an act to provide evidence and not one that is actually performing the act.
do u only show your love on this fixed day? i dont celebrate milaad but that does not mean i love the holy prophet mohammed s.a.w any less than u do.
Doesn't mean if you celebrate the birth of the Holy Prophet
you are only rembering him 
on that day, by sending durood and salam and listenin to naats and remembering him are all ways of celebratin his 
birthday everyday.
The Holy Prophet
is the biggest blessing to mankind and we should rejoice his birth at every opportunity. There is nothin wrong with holding a gathering on 12th rabi-ul-awal, its a way to tell everyone (muslims and non-muslims alike) that the Holy Prophet Muhammad 
was born on this day.
But i dont think anyone can claim that so an so loves the Holy Prophet
more, only Allah (swt) knows what is in our hearts. I agree the Holy Prophet 
should be remebered everyday.
wasnt referring to you angel!
Actions speak louder than words!
My mistake, sorry.
good for you
most people cant make dua ALL the time for ALL their relatives and convey reward to them ALL the time-24/7
busy people
thats why dates are put aside-such as the day they passed away
but since ur already doing this for ALL ur relatives ALL the time
u dont need to attend/organise khatams
yes very good indeed
u dont neccessarily need to lift ur hands to pray 4 them,taking a few minutes out every day aint asking 4 much.
death ceromonies is a total no no...
riiiiight
so according to u "a few mintutes out of every day" is ALL the time :roll: :roll:
i see to it "ALL the time" means probably every minute for u right,
my ALL the time means praying for the deceased every day, not 1 day in
particular that comes once in a blue moon.
then why dont u say-"I pray for them once every day"
no need to exagerate by saying "ALL the time" :roll:
why should i say i pray for them once in the day, i pray 4 them more than once...
now are u going to tell me to say why dont u say "i pray for them more than once
god PPL.
ur losing it girl
btw if u like to pray for ur relatives ALL the time (whatever that means to u) :roll:
why do u have an issue with people who put dates aside?
its up to them if they pray ALL the time or once a day/once a week/once a month/once a year etc
Salam
Is he a she ?
If so. then she is not losing it.
She's lost it.
Omrow
you know naj to khatam this argument why dont we say that you do it your way and we'll do it ours its all good we all end up praying for the dead
i'm sure like me most people pray for the dead after namaz each time but when we pray on Thursdays having cooked something sweet and do the khatam well its just special and please dont tell me whats wrong with it because none is asking anyone else to do it. i think it is special, jaaiz and obligatory for me
u know what seema....i wasnt asking for anything more than what u've just mentioned, i pointed out what i believed and also stated NO-ONE has to agree with what i think..i aint stopping anyone from doing these death ceromonies, why should i...
some ppl here just get OTT, i aint saying dis about u seema.
Seraph i kinder have a vague idea of what you're on about, my old neighbour used to do it. It's alien to me but is this what your're on about, see if it's relevant. Scroll down to Q5:
http://www.pakistanlink.com/religion/2000/06-30.html
seema maybe u can answer my question...i know my cousins do this thursday night thing where they make nice food etc...its some khatam right, why thursday? just asking generally
Yashmaki: that was the same question.
About dates such as 3rd day, 40th, 47342th etc, they are just as reminders.
I myself do not remember people, and am hardly never emotionally attached. Its a bad thing, but when I do dua normally its just 'Oh allah forgive the sins of all those muslims who have dies, and eluminate their graves.'
Its a nice thing to pray for a person individually. If it takes a certain date to do, I cannot see the harm.
And Naj please refrain from calling things bid'ah without first being 100% sure, and consulting a scholar. Its just inviting a fight. And secondly ignore Omrow. He has a tendency to try and wind people up. He has some good poins he occasionally makes, but you have to find them in the cruft.
Oh, and ladies (well LilSis really...): Its ramadan. Try not to get angry.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
its bidah coz you think it is
how?
angel has kindly gone to the extent to provide evidence that it isnt, weve all backed our views........now can you back yours please?
if its a prefrence, then thats fine....but then dont go sayin we doin bidah!
i agree with Seema
i do thursday khathams - its a day we all can get together, do dhikr and naats
naj, whats wrong with a khatham please?! we recite Yasin Surah, some nasheeds, Dhikr and Dua!
The Lover is ever drunk with love;
He is free, he is mad,
He dances with ecstasy and delight.
Caught by our own thoughts,
We worry about every little thing,
But once we get drunk on that love,
Whatever will be, will be.
ɐɥɐɥ
she does it ALL the time-24/7
thats why doing it on Thursdays is wrong :roll:
oh that makes sense
readin namaz at certain times of the day is bidah then. coz ur not readin all the time? :roll:
The Lover is ever drunk with love;
He is free, he is mad,
He dances with ecstasy and delight.
Caught by our own thoughts,
We worry about every little thing,
But once we get drunk on that love,
Whatever will be, will be.
ɐɥɐɥ
oooooohhhh....sum1z getin a lil touchy
do we have a problem?
The Lover is ever drunk with love;
He is free, he is mad,
He dances with ecstasy and delight.
Caught by our own thoughts,
We worry about every little thing,
But once we get drunk on that love,
Whatever will be, will be.
ɐɥɐɥ
Assalamu Alaikum,
I agree with the link i posted. It basically says there's nothing wrong with supplicating for the deceased or other ppl, or even reading Quran on their behalf etc in fact it's encouraged. But it also says there are certain elements of these khatham reading ceremonies that are steeped in "cultural traditions", rather than religious ones. Ppl have taken these cultural aspects to be part of the Islamic tradition when they're not.
As naj already mentioned why are these khatham readings done on Thursdays is there a religious context or is it just cultural? I'm led to believe it's cultural. Since we aren't supposed to set dates and practise an event on a specific date either anually, monthly weekly etc that aspect would be against Islam wouldn't it? There should be no specific date. We have our two Eids that's sufficient for us. Any other celebrations need to be backed up with evidence, where's the evidence for these Thursday rituals?
Naj has a valid argument instead of belittling her, and mocking her let's try to be civil and explain the reasoning behind these practises. After all if it's an islamic tradition there's no reason why you can't provide evidence for it. If these khatham gatherings are done on thursdays then i suppose there's evidence our prophet
did them on thursdays too. If not has it come from the traditions of our parents rather than prophetic tradition?
Also the lavish food served at these events is it made out to be a "core" element of the gathering, or can one leave it out? My pakistani neighbour tells me it's a must. She obviously thinks it's part of an Islamic ritual, but is it really? Giving food to others is a commendable thing, since it can strengthen bonds, and please Allah. More so if it entails feeding the poor.
More importantly muslims are supposed to bring food to the house of the deceased not the other way round. If the ppl grieving are providing for you as a guest, you are burdening them at a time when they need comfort from you. Basically i'm against it if it's "solely" done with the intention that it's "obligatory" for the khatham gathering. I believe it's another cultural aspect.
Also at these khatham gatherings a lot of ppl are called upon to meet at one house. Many of these ppl live long distances away in different cities. Even for weddings we aren't supposed to invite those who are at a very long distance in case it becomes a burden upon them. Wouldn't this come under the same category? Wouldn't ppl feel obligated to go to the event, to respect the elders etc. So even if it was hard upon them financially and physically they would still make the journey?
Are these khatham gatherings limited to the Pakistani community, because that's how i'm perceiving it. Apart from my neighbour one of my best mates does this also and she too is from the same background.
Finally i'd like to make it clear i see nothing wrong with reading the Quran, making dua etc for other muslims especially the deceased, but i don't agree with certain aspects which seem to be more about keeping up with cultural traditions rather than religious ones.
Salaam
I don’t know ther reference to these hadith as I have read the following in Imam 'Abdallah Ibn 'Alawi al-Haddad book “The lives of man”.
It is related that the gifts of alms, prayers, and Qur'anic recitation sent by the living to the dead reach them carried by the angels on plates of light, and adorned with silk handkerchiefs, and they say to them: 'This is a gift from so-and-so', and in this way they find joy and delight.
The Holy Prophet
said “Your deeds are shown to God on Monday and Thursdays and to the Prophets, fathers, and mothers on Fridays. They rejoice at your good deeds, and their faces grow in radiance and in light. Therefore fear God, and do not distress your dead”.
It is also recommended to visit the cemetery on Thursday night, Friday, Friday night until sunrise, and on Monday, for it is said (and this is supported by various narrations) that the spirits of the dead return to their graves at those times.
Thursday night is known as being Friday night according to Islamic dates. A time where dua’s/ forgiveness are more likely to be accepted in the court of Allah (swt).
That’s why many people put aside Thursday to carry out Esale-Sawab.
Wasalaam
ok,i just found out why its bidah,apparently in islam you mourn the dead for 3 days,why celebrate their anniversery then?? pray for them,thats not wrong but you shouldnt force others to pray for ppl they prob dont know,i remeber when my nani did a khatam in pakistan the main reason ppl attended was coz of the food,milad isnt bidah as far as i've heard but now days the mufti's advice you not to go coz of the way they are done,there is no pardah,they take out jalooses etc etc and their not segregaded or the done the way they should be done..khatams are a pakistani riwaaj,have you guys ever heard of then being done in the prophets (p.b.u.h) day and age??
Actions speak louder than words!
u know what admin i believe it is bidah, and i've lived wiv scholars who believe the same...kuri asked are khatams jaiz? and i answered to what i believe saying for ME they are and i also mentioned NO-ONE AGREE...
why ppl are over reacting i dont know,
hayder, yes i totally agree wiv the proof that angel gave regarding ur allowed to convey your sawab to the deceased, where did i mention u cant pray for them or intercede on their behalf ? i made it clear in my previous post u can,
i dont agree with these compulsory dates set aside for these khatams
i believe its stated in hadhrat moulana ashraf ali thanvis kitaab (heavenly ornaments) setting aside these compulsory dates ie 40th 3rd etc...is bidah,
im clearly say i aint in a position to show u proof,but i believe that the scholars who i follow have proof to back their claims, if there were hadiths on setting aside these dates or if it were a sunnah of our prophet mohammed s.a.w then i believe no-one would go wrong
what u've backed u'r views? with what?cant see any evidence from u hayder i admit i got no proof to show u right, why dont u be nice and tell me where its stated the 40th 3rd thurday night khatams are part of the islamic shariah.
mourning and celebration/commemoration are two (three really) different things. Such as ashura. We do not mourn, but celebrate or commemorate the person's life, and offer dua. Nowt wrong with that.
noone can force anyone to pray really. Its all about intention.
In the prophet's time eveyone ate together anyway. it is now that we all eat alone, and have gatherings where we occasionally eat together.
If someone does something wrong at an event, the act should be condemned, not the event.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
mr Thanvi there in lies the problem my dear
we perform Khatams on Thursday before Maghrib as well because we believe the Souls of the departed are sent from Heavens to earth to see there living relatives.
after varies duaas then food is shared to neighbours in poor countries to the poor
we consider ourselves very blessed that we can deliver khatams as much as possible if my motherinlaw had her way we'd have one every day (the full works) bless her
the truth abt the thursday khatam.
I maintained silence but the ancestor worship and saint worship that ppl are doing is condemnable and should be shunned. It is believed by the people of innovation that on the friday night (night between thursday and friday) the souls of the dead visit their homes and the homes of their relatives. On arriving at the house they are pleased to see their relatives making their favourite dishes. Also it is believed by the people of Innovation that Laylatul Bara'ah is the night of teh dead when all the deceased souls are released and visit the houses of their deceased relatives.
There is nothing wrong in praying for the deceased, nor in conveying the reward of virtuous acts to them. These are praiseworthy. But the so called khatm of the people of innovation is far removed from such things. The khatm they practice is a chance for intermingling, it is a chance to feast on food, it is a chance to gossip. It is common knowledge that these khatms are considered compulsory by the people for 3rd, 7th, 40th day anniversaries and infact a person is compelled to do them out of fear of shame in the community. The khatm has become a cultural activity, it is made into a compulsory part of deen and so opposing it and its innovation is a must.
The example is thus. A person daily reads 10 raka'ah nafl. If he does this on the basis that it is nafl for him and no sin is incurred if he misses nor is it a must for others then subhanALLAH it is a great deed. On the other hand if he begins to consider the 10 raka'ah as being an obligation/ a must on him, and on others then it becomes innovation and bid'ah and must be shunned. It makes no difference if verbally he calls it nafl and doesnt not declare on his tongue that it is obligatory. What matters is the point when he begins to consider it an essential aspect of religion.
In this light, the khatm of the people of innovation is innovation because those who dont do it are declared wahhabi and haters of this and that.
1. Khatm have become compulsory upon the people and are considered a must in deen, and so become bid'a and must be opposed.
2. They have intermingling.
3. They have wastage of food.
4. Supposedly people come for reading Quran but in actual fact most of the time is spent in gossip
5. If one is invited to a khatm it is considered a must for him to attend. If he does not then he will suffer censure and isolation from the famiyl who invited him. This is the greatest proof that the khatm is not a religoius but cultural act. If i am invited and i dont attend then ppl will abuse me as one who didnt attend a good khatm function, this is the innovation .
The people of innovation argue we read quran, we feed ppl, we convey the reward to the deceased so u calling these things bad?
answer
1. U read Quran. The ones who are going to read with sincerity for the deceased will read even when no1 is present and their sincerity of recitiation by ALLAH is immensely valuable. The majority who attend only read Quran because they were invited and even then they only read a small amount. So if you talk about quran. the ones who are actually reading with a clean intention, and NOT because they will be censured if they dont turn up, will be reading anyway and their recitation is better than the people who come because of the culture.
2. Feeding ppl is good. But dont the people of innovation know that food is meant to be sent to the house of the mourners rather than going there to be fed. This is a huge evil. The poor grieving family have enough to deal with and then the people of innovation have made it that the mourning house must also worry about feeding the sympathisers. Any1 who doesnt see this evil is blind. Go to pakistan and they poor souls become more worried abot feeding the ppl when a matam happens cos if the ppl arent fed then there is censure that we went to such and such and read and condoled them and they didnt feed us a feast. If the people of innovation really wanted to convey great rewards to the deceased by feeding then what stops them from sending that 300/400 pound to a poor country and feeding the msulims there? The money will feed more, will save lives as opposed to increase waists, and the duas that come from the stomach of a hungry person are worth a thousand times more than the ones that a full stomached person in uk gives.
In conclusion, Oh People of Innovation, fear ALLAH and desist from this evil.
You say we read quran and feed the ppl and he calls it innovation. I reply that Abu Jahl did hajj every yr saying Labbayk to ALLAH but his hajj was not accepted because he walkd around the kabah naked. But he was doing hajj, he was saying labbayk. The deen is not so simple as u wish to make it, opening the doors for all innovations.
Ya ALLAH grant us tawheed and save us from shirk. Oh ALLAH grant us imaan and save us from kufr. Ya Rabb ennoble us with the sunnah and protect us from the innovation.
ameen Ya Rabb E Muhammad salallahu alayhi wa sallam
I have outlined fully my stance, u will not take it but I have alhamdulillah fulfilled my duty.
Truth has come and falsehood has perished, for falsehood by its very nature is doomed to perish.
Ya ALLAH Madad.
Haq Chaar Yaar
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