Did she scrap Muslim assemblies or collective worship? The media really over sensationalise the whole thing.

You wrote:

No idea - just getting this in before it hits all the tabloids over the next few days and potentially causes a furore.

There are plenty of people from around sheffield here who may or may not know more.

Either way, I did not know that there HAD to be "acts of worship" at school - anyone got a torch to shine some light on this?

By law there has to be a certain amount of time (10 mins a day? 30 mins a week?) of 'worship' in every state school.

My primary school was VERY mixed, and our headteacher did very well by telling us stories from all religious/ethnic backgrounds, so one wasn't 'favoured' more than others.

But Muslim parents insisting their kids get a separate assembly with 'Muslim worship' involved?

Either send your kids to a private religious school or to the mosque in the evenings. Don't expect a state school to provide everything for you.

They already bend over backwards not to offend at Christmas time, to provide halal school dinners and give extra holidays at 'Eid. Why they should be expected to do any more is beyond me.

Yes it is a law, a law my school have never abided! but now we have a new headteacher and sometime in the near future i think we will start doing collective worship but i dont really see the point of it.

Ya'qub wrote:

But Muslim parents insisting their kids get a separate assembly with 'Muslim worship' involved?

Either send your kids to a private religious school or to the mosque in the evenings. Don't expect a state school to provide everything for you.

They already bend over backwards not to offend at Christmas time, to provide halal school dinners and give extra holidays at 'Eid. Why they should be expected to do any more is beyond me.

i agree.

my primary school onnly did christian acts of worship and the other muslim half of the school just had to sit tere quietly while the head teahcer or priest talked and read prayers
but we don't do any collective act of worship at my high school just an assembly twice a week

assalamu alaikum

this is more propaganda to feed the sheep with more lies about the muslim masses, who are "extremists" if you didn't already know, coz now they want their very own assemblies, and more funding to carry it out :roll:

we used to sing hymns in school, and other non religious songs as well like "the sun has got his hat on", "the grand old duke of york" lol etc But the bulk of it was christian hymns. We didn't know. Most parents back then either didn't know and/or didn't care because they were not religiously inclined. I admit i enjoyed singing those hymns, because they were gospel and were fun. It must have effected me in some way, but I cannot say how because I was only a child.

Also for half a year i went to a special school coz i had a pretty horrific rd accident. Adjoined to the special school was a great cathedral. I told my parents we had to sing hymns every morning in church and listen to what i think was a sermon by clergy. I can remember that quite clearly, i remember feeling guilty for even touching that hymn book, and entering that great big cathedral. But things could have been different, those hymns could have been the thing that touched my heart to leave Islam. The smallest event can work on a persons mind. So i think Muslims who want to bring up their children with strong Islamic values, and maybe want them to take up a religious vocation should not be sending kids to state schools.

They shouldn't be trying to change state schools either, like separate assemblies for muslims? Come off it would we like it if another faith like say Jewish parents said we want a separate assembly, some muslims would think it was a conspiracy and all the zionists were taking over :roll: What's wrong with having your child not participating in religious assemblies. Don't hold hands up to pray if you are urged to repeat a christian prayer. This used to occur in my secondary school, and it was permitted, and respected.

Hajjar wrote:

assalamu alaikum

this is more propaganda to feed the sheep with more lies about the muslim masses, who are "extremists" if you didn't already know, coz now they want their very own assemblies, and more funding to carry it out :roll:

we used to sing hymns in school, and other non religious songs as well like "the sun has got his hat on", "the grand old duke of york" lol etc But the bulk of it was christian hymns. We didn't know. Most parents back then either didn't know and/or didn't care because they were not religiously inclined. I admit i enjoyed singing those hymns, because they were gospel and were fun. It must have effected me in some way, but I cannot say how because I was only a child.

Also for half a year i went to a special school coz i had a pretty horrific rd accident. Adjoined to the special school was a great cathedral. I told my parents we had to sing hymns every morning in church and listen to what i think was a sermon by clergy. I can remember that quite clearly, i remember feeling guilty for even touching that hymn book, and entering that great big cathedral. But things could have been different, those hymns could have been the thing that touched my heart to leave Islam. The smallest event can work on a persons mind. So i think Muslims who want to bring up their children with strong Islamic values, and maybe want them to take up a religious vocation should not be sending kids to state schools.

They shouldn't be trying to change state schools either, like separate assemblies for muslims? Come off it would we like it if another faith like say Jewish parents said we want a separate assembly, some muslims would think it was a conspiracy and all the zionists were taking over :roll: What's wrong with having your child not participating in religious assemblies. Don't hold hands up to pray if you are urged to repeat a christian prayer. This used to occur in my secondary school, and it was permitted, and respected.

Going into a cathedral isn't haram! You can pray there if needs be (not Christian prayer, you can do salat).

Anyway...

While I think its utterly stupid to have any sort of enforced worship for any child of any religion (in state schools), I don't think singing Christian hymns affects anybody. Like you said, it didn't change your beliefs, because you were too young to understand. You were probably too young even to understand Allah (swt) properly, let alone the difference between monotheistic religions.

My college was attached to a Catholic girls' school, and they were amongst the least-moralled people I've ever met, so that should perhaps demonstrate that enforced worship doesn't lead people to become practising Christians.

I strongly disagree with faith schools, if all the Muslims in my area had gone to them I wouldn't have ever met and been friends with Muslims when I was a child, and then when 9/11 happened I maybe would have thought that Islam was bad or all Muslims were violent or something. But because I'd been friends with dozens and dozens of Muslims I knew this wasn't the case. This meant that later, when I started reading about Islam, I didn't see it as 'foreign' or 'alien' or 'scary'.

If someone wants their children to have an Islamic education, they shouldn't look to faith schools (especially state-funded ones), they should educate their children about Islam at home. If they lack the required knowledge to do this, they should send their kids to the mosque to learn. If the local mosques don't cater for this, or the lessons the mosques give are crap, the parents should campaign and hassle the mosques to provide a better service.

They/we shouldn't push the government to do anything for them/us. Not unless they/we want a 'government approved' 'version' of 'Islam' taught to their/our children.

You wrote:

I think faith based schools are a good idea, but they also should not be exclusive to people of that faith.

How does that work?

A Muslim in a Jewish school?

A Christian in a Hindu school?

Ya'qub wrote:

I strongly disagree with faith schools, if all the Muslims in my area had gone to them I wouldn't have ever met and been friends with Muslims when I was a child, and then when 9/11 happened I maybe would have thought that Islam was bad or all Muslims were violent or something. But because I'd been friends with dozens and dozens of Muslims I knew this wasn't the case. This meant that later, when I started reading about Islam, I didn't see it as 'foreign' or 'alien' or 'scary'.

Fantastic! Totally agree.
Now, if the headteacher actually scrapped Muslims from their prayer/Jumma time then I think that's uncalled for. But if she just told them to all sit in an assembly where they can all hear about every religion (so long as nothing was imposed on them) then I don't see anything wrong with that.

Same reason as Yaqub, for people to understand that ISlam isn't what the media make it out to be, ordinary people need to come into contact with good practising Muslims. Otherwise segregation will just lead to hate and distrust and we'll be in a worse situation than what we are in now.

Basically what lamps said; it creates an 'us' & 'them' mentality. You saw what happened in oldham & bradford a few years ago, segregation on the basis of faith will only lead to more distrust. better results in faith schools is not an excuse. They can select students so they're bound to get better results. and what if the state-funded muslim school has better facilities than th state-funded catholic school down the road? It could only lead to resentment and frustration. Personally I disagree with the existence of fee paying private schools, although I recognise the right of parents to choose (disregarding how unfair the system is), I can only think that privately-funded Muslim (or other faith) schools are acceptable. Although I would never send my kids to one nor advise other people to either.

Not all state schools are that bad. Plus a good mosque can provide RE.

The Lamp wrote:

Plus a good mosque can provide RE.

Must?

I went to a church of england primary school and clearly remember the assemblies in which 4 out of 5 days we sang hymms and said the lords prayer. The other day we had an hour long hymm practice so that we knew the words to the hymms to sing in assemblies. Also one day a week a vicar came in to read from the Bible.

Us Muslim kids never thought anything of it until a little wiser in year 6. If a teacher saw you not singing along or particularly not saying the lords prayer you were told off and embarrassed, by being made to stand up in your spot throughtout the assembly or sent to the front of the hall to stand up there. We would just move our lips when we’d have to stand and put our hands together for the prayer and a couple of teachers were aware of the lack of sound and happily ignored it but a couple would get really cross and tell us off for it. Looking back now, this was just stupid and arrogant of those teachers.

90% of the pupils at the school were pakistani Muslims and all the parents pretty much went with things, probably because they were unaware of what really went on, or took little interest. When one family asked that their 2 children be removed from assemblies teachers were offended and annoyed and it was made into a big deal, especially when the school didn’t oblige and the father found out. I didn’t actually know that parents had the right to remove their child from collective worship, reading that makes me a little annoyed that such a big deal was made by the school.

I don’t think it did me any harm and all us kids enjoyed singing, we rarely thought deeply about the words. But I did a few years later really think about this and didn’t think it was a wise choice, I wouldn’t send my child to a church of england school. My friend sends her child to a catholic school purely because it is a really good school, but personally I don’t think it’s worth it and advised against it.

If parents can choose that their kids opt out, even if for only part of the assembly, (which I think it's great that there is that option), and the teachers don't label the kids or be awkward about it, then it should all be fine. If not, then send them to an Islamic school.

Islamic schools I think will do more harm then good in the long run.

Ya'qub wrote:

You wrote:

I think faith based schools are a good idea, but they also should not be exclusive to people of that faith.

How does that work?

A Muslim in a Jewish school?

A Christian in a Hindu school?

i went to a catholic school for a while during yr 5 it was kinda cool actually

also about islamic schools its kinda mixed views for me because some people will benefit from islamic schools and be better muslims and stuff but some people will feel like is being rammed down their throats with "islam this" and "islam that" and will feel get sick of it and turn out to be worse muslims that they would be if they went to a state school

You wrote:

I can remember in primary school eating chips with a knife rather than a fork because the dinner ladies would not let us hold forks with the right hand.

Stab the chip, eat it.

we were forced to eat the main course with forks and the dessert with spoons even if the main course was rice which at home i eat with spoons

when i refer to islamic schools i mean those that teach GCSEs with Arabic, Alim/Alima course etc aswell. Most masjids don't offer this level of education, it's usually evening madrassas or islamic boarding schools, which have hefty fees.

I know there are state funded islamic schools which are no different to non religious schools other than the islamic ethos it teaches. They offer no Islamic courses apart from Arabic. I suppose even these are of benefit to muslim children. I thght non muslims could attend these ones? But the one i'm describing, I doubt non muslims would want their kids doing hifz. Or maybe im wrong?..........

I know that going to cathedrals not haram, but i think singing hymns can effect you. You know why? A family member of mine is a revert. She reverted because the call to prayer effected her so much that she felt this was the truth path, even though she didn't understand a single word except Allah. After doing some study for a short while she took the shahadah. Likewise hymns could work similar miracles don't you think?

P.S why are we talking about knives and folks? lol You lot had ruthless dinner ladies! In my school we could eat with hands if we wanted, as long as we cleared off before lessons began lol.

You wrote:

I can remember in primary school eating chips with a knife rather than a fork because the dinner ladies would not let us hold forks with the right hand.

Stab the chip, eat it.

Lol, I remember that, but not in primary school but infants. Alhamdulillah they were slightly more chilled at the primary school. And in the infants you were not allowed to leave the table until you finished everything on your tray. Even if it meant a dinner lady standing over you or even feeding you herself! :shock: They certainly were ruthless. I remember loads of kids crying in the dinner hall. Luckily, we rarely stayed school dinners. My little bro went to the same infant school years later and he would cry if he had to stay school dinners.

Hajjar wrote:

I know that going to cathedrals not haram, but i think singing hymns can effect you. You know why? A family member of mine is a revert. She reverted because the call to prayer effected her so much that she felt this was the truth path, even though she didn't understand a single word except Allah. After doing some study for a short while she took the shahadah. Likewise hymns could work similar miracles don't you think?

She didn't convert because of the adhaan.

She converted because Allah (swt) guided her to Islam.

If Allah (swt) diverts someone from Islam using hymns, then it is His will. Just to clarify, I was not condoning sending kids to Catholic schools either. I don't think the (currently secular) government should have any active involvement in religion, and this refers to funding Catholic schools just as much as it involves funding Muslim schools.

I completely disagree with what admin said earlier, but I'll write up a reply when I have more time...