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Is that what you normally do, just quote a random verse.
You don't get my post do you.
Well
It's not upto us lay people to suddenly decide the exact jurisdiction on such matters
but
I personally beleive Islam is a peaceful religion
and not one that would sanction stoning to death for something like adultery
if that was true, then MANY people would have been dead by now!
I'm not condoning adultery, I think it's one of the vilest things ever, but to stone someone to death for it, I don't think it's right
castration perhaps... no I'm jokin! ... ish...
Didn't ANYONE listen to Sheikh Ibrahim on the Let's Talk Show???
Now that is slippery ground... You can find a few hadith where stoning was used as the punishment for adultery.
By saying that such a punishment is wrong, you are also saying that the actions encouraged in those ahadith are wrong.
Be careful with your words.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
Not punishing and going to the total top are fairly different, in my opinion. Like it or not, hudood has been abused so often.
And MuslimBro: I was saying it's part of the Sharia to be merciful. The emphasis is on mercy and helping people to change ie. rehabilitation. And it really doesn't help if it could be interpreted as though you're defending what happened.
“Before death takes away what you are given, give away whatever there is to give.”
Mawlana Jalal ud Din Rumi
But how can it be going on the top when the punishment is within the limits proscribed?
Yes, its sad that someone received the death penalty. I also felt a tinge of sadness when I read the the Bali bombers had been executed - and they were mass murderers. It is probably a good thing to not want people to die. However, in some instances, it can be the right course of action.
We need to know what happened before attempting to make a solid judgement call. If the case was as originally suggested (13 year old raped), maybe the death penalty for the people who gave the original punishment?
Somalia is desensitised to violence. Unfortunately this means death for the people living there where it would mean far less if the people were living elsewhere.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
Or is it? Yeah I know that sometimes it could be the best thing to do. But very rearley, nowadays it's used too often. Plus if there is something only to be used as a last resort then surely using that too readily is plain incompetence or corruption.
“Before death takes away what you are given, give away whatever there is to give.”
Mawlana Jalal ud Din Rumi
Assalaamu alaykum wa rahmatullah wa barakatuhu
Where did you read of this case?
ام حسام الدين
Thats fantastic... i mite steal that
The above article is sickening. I dunno whose, worse the rapist or the people who stoned the poor girl.
When life offers you a dream so far beyond any of your expectations, it is not reasonable to grieve when it comes to an end.
If all the conditions are met and a person is found guilty of adultery, there is no chance of rehabilitation, they have to pay the price. They should have thought of it before they did their business. The punishment which is handed out is upto the Qadi as they are knowledgeable in this field.
Btw I am not defending what has happened.... if it did really happen according to what the report says.
If all the conditions are met, ie. guilty of commiting adultery, caught by four ultra-reliable witnesses and they still think they're absolutely right. I don't think you can generalise and say that there is no chance of rehabilitation. Remember Umar bin Al Khatab? People would have said that he had no chance of changing. Look what happened! Mate, your way of thinking doesn't seem to be reasonable, people make mistakes, punishing is one thing, whereas going to the maximum penalty is something totally different.
If you're really not defending what happened then it would be nice to hear you denounce it every now and then.
“Before death takes away what you are given, give away whatever there is to give.”
Mawlana Jalal ud Din Rumi
I agree 100% Lamp
And that is why neither of you would be any good as a judge.
Its not about rehabilitation - its about giving the ordained punishment - no matter if you feel otherwise.
Remember Umr Ibn Al Khattab (ra)? His son (ra) was flogged as punishment for a crime and he died while being flogged.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
I'm not talking about whether a person can be rehabilitated or not.
If they are found guilty then the qadi hands out the punishment. Fortunately hudood law is not like US law, as You described nicely.
Thats right, but regarding rehabilitation, one should understand the philosophy oif the hudood punishments. They are not extensive to cover any number of crimes, they cover only a few crimes. They are painful to bear.
The philosophy behind them is that they are 'preventative' punishments, meaning that they exist as a strong deterant against crime rather than for their ownsake. If you do the crime, you'll get the time, but thats not the point of hudood. The point is that you loose your nerve when considering doing something bad.
Gentleness and kindness were never a part of anything except that it made it beautiful, and harshness was never a part of anything except that it made it ugly.
Through cheating, stealing, and lying, one may get required results but finally one becomes
The Sharia isn't about being brutal, it's about getting people to change and getting them to think twice before doing something they shouldn't be. Yet having the conditions so high to promote leniency but taking the buzz out of commiting the crimes.
It's ironic that you say Ibn Umar RA (May Allah be pleased with him).
The Qadis in this day and age have proven to be out of touch with reality, generally though not all of them. They aren't above criticism and shouldn't be treated like such.
The reason why so many people convert to Islam is not because they see Islam as brutal, it's becasue they see Islam as giving them the motivation to change. So think.....
“Before death takes away what you are given, give away whatever there is to give.”
Mawlana Jalal ud Din Rumi
Ofcourse. The punishment should deter the person from committing the crime in the first place. But if it doesn't and the person is punished, then it also acts as a deterrent to other people.
And then once again we forget that Islam isn't about being brutal, it is about consensus and getting people to change. If that was Islam then Islam would probably be gone by now, Cruel and harsh Regimes never last, which is why the regimes and not Islam have died.
“Before death takes away what you are given, give away whatever there is to give.”
Mawlana Jalal ud Din Rumi
Islam is not a social club. It is NOT about consensus.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
Isn't their a hadith that says that the Prophet
said he would cut off Fatima's (ra) hand if she was caught stealing?
Don't just do something! Stand there.
Well you can't force Islam on people There is no compulsion in religion, compulsion and religion are incompatible.
Oh by the way Yaqub: Don't take my word here, but I would imagine that applies when she's been caught and found guilty and EVERY single condition has been fulfilled. No one is above the law.
“Before death takes away what you are given, give away whatever there is to give.”
Mawlana Jalal ud Din Rumi
Unless the judge feels compassionate...
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
You do know a qadi can sentence a person to death for not praying... if all the conditions have been met ofcourse.
You seem to make it like there's hundreds of conditions, there's not many.
what happened to free will and freedom of choice
Besides
why is everyone here acting as tho they're experts and scholars
we're not
So how are you advocating lenience?
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
Some companions (ra) held the view that persistent neglect of prayer amounts to apostasy. They did not consider apostasy to any other sin except leaving out prayer.
Imam Ahmad ibn Hanbal even held the view that a person who leaves prayer and dies in that state, should not be given a funeral service and nor should they be buried in a Muslim graveyard.
Neglecting prayer is not a minor thing.
the prophet
said who ever misses a prayer intentionally has commited kufr
Those who danced were thought to be quite insane, by those who couldn't hear the music...
May Allah (swt) forgive us all!
AMEEN!!
Don't just do something! Stand there.
OK MuslimBro, you can stop playing around now. We are under the obligation to not push people away from Islam, and not force people to pray. Becasue religion and compulsion are incompatible.
You seem to make it like there's hundreds of conditions, there's not many.[/quote]
There are high safeguards and conditions.
“Before death takes away what you are given, give away whatever there is to give.”
Mawlana Jalal ud Din Rumi
We are advocating moderate leniency and compassion which Islam encourages.
“Before death takes away what you are given, give away whatever there is to give.”
Mawlana Jalal ud Din Rumi
In life, not in the role of a judge - who has to follow the letter, simply because is some cases (not this), leniency would no longer be just.
The reason that Adultery is punished harshly is that Family is an important concept and if a player wants out of a marriage, it is easy. You do not have to give up half your property, future earnings or things of the like.
I am sorry, but I have not seen any reason being cited to give lenience. Other than "it's the Islamic way, innit?"
It might be, but it needs a stronger advocacy than that.
(I have even given examples of better arguments! Another one: Do the hudood punishments apply to such a desensitized place?)
This argument is utterly futile since the deed has been done and we do not have full details.
It could have either been a 13 year old wrongly murdered. Or it could have been a 23 year old who actually did meet the criteria. Who knows?
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
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