Yes
10% (2 votes)
Yes
10% (2 votes)
No
40% (8 votes)
No
40% (8 votes)
Total votes: 20
Are the Muslims Preachers/Scholors/Imams/Leaders doing enough to tackle extremism, and educate Muslims?
Published by iRazor on 5 July, 2006 - 14:38
[u][b]Muslim Britain split over 'martyrs' of 7/7[/b][/u]
[url]http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-2254764_1,00.html[/url]
This survey, although we can always question its validity, shows how stupid some muslim adults are.
If we do not beleive the survey to be a true picture, we all know some muslims, who support extremist groups, and individuals like OBL, n the Pirate formally known as Abu Hamza. They are both muslim personalities, who have a large support group oversea's and in this country. They preach extremism, and im sure both of the were happy to hear about the london train bombings.
Muslim Adults, who know no better, support OBL, and beleive what he is doing is good for Islam. The older generation are no longer a voice for Muslims in this country. The government, the non-muslims, are all looking to the youth, and seeing the behaviour, and the beliefs of the youth, they will form their opinion of Islam.
Many a time, I have been asked, by a non-muslim, what is my view on terrorism, and i am asked to speak for the whole Muslim nation in the UK. Although, we should not be asked to speak for a whole people's, we are in a position, where non-muslims are not comfortable speaking to too many muslims (and frankly i dont blame them). So, by speaking to a few muslims, they will form there view.
This means that the muslims have a large responsibility, and it rests upon the shoulders of every muslims, to give the non-muslims, in this country/our country, where we were born, where we live, and possibly where we will die, a view, and a correct view of Islam.
To do this, we must first and foremost eradicate the disease of extremism, which festers amongst too many of us. And this message of peace, must be delivered to us, by those who are in positions of leadership.
Although, as a nation, the muslims today, in the UK, have many problems, Extremism is by far the most dangerous.
Personally, I feel as though the Imams, the scholors, the leaders of communities are not doing enough to educate the people. Every jummah khutbah is about the same ol' thing, stories from the past. Ive hardly ever been to a jummah khutbah which I felt could help in solving problems of extremism, or solving any problem. Instead, its always about sect bashing, or sectarian issues like why we should, or should not celebrate Milad, why we should or should start ramadan on a certain day, why we should or should not do this that and the other. The questions and differences of opinions which have existed for centuries, are still today causing a big who-ha. But the real problem is always side-stepped.
Are the Scholors, The Imams, The Molvis (no matter how big or small his beard is), are they doing enough to tackle the problem of extremism? If Not, how do you feel they can improve, and start to tackle the real problems. If you feel they are, then please tell us what exactly is being done, so we can tell our Molvis aswell
_____________- -SupeRazor- -_______________
Some ppl make their goals the stars.
They may live n die n never reach the stars,
but in the darkness of the night, those stars will guide them to their destination.
Becuz they made them in their eyesight
Why does that show how stupid muslims are?
There IS cause for concern at government actions. (I am shocked only 16% said that!)
What has the government actuaklly done? nothing. (again 56% seems rather low).
13% thought they were martyrs. That is a fringe. However that is a fringe containing both those who thought their actions were right, AND those who thopught their actions were wrong, but because they thouight what they were doing was right, they should be considered martyrs.
Misleading healine.
Stats are a form of lying. So are sensationalist headlines.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
The question is are the western leaders doing enough to stop terrorists by changing their foreign policies.
Islam is the Key to paradise but without practice it won't open the gates.
No thats not the question.... look above... :roll:
The change must come from within and through knowledge not thru ignorance.
Back in BLACK
The western leaders should not have a problem really, Muslims should be able to live in non-muslim lands without blowing anything up, or causing problem, the same way non-muslims were able to live in muslim lands without causing problems, 100 and above years ago.
You never hear of a caliph having to change his policy because of non-muslims migrating into his land. Infact, i cant remember which caliph, or under which country it was. But i heard a story, a caliph had a minister who was jewish, the jew was a very smart man, n the muslim leaders in the muslim land called for the caliph to sack the jew n find a muslim to fill the spot, under severe pressure he did so. Dint take long for him to realise he made a mistake, and brung the jewish man back into his former ministerial spot.
_____________- -SupeRazor- -_______________
Some ppl make their goals the stars.
They may live n die n never reach the stars,
but in the darkness of the night, those stars will guide them to their destination.
Becuz they made them in their eyesight
I voted no.
i think Muslim leaders should be looking at tackling of terrorism within the communities..
i also think mr blair is an idiot for not taking any responsibility himself.
----
the problem muslim leaders face imo opinion are the lack of channels of mass communication.. yeh u got the Muslim council of britain doing their bit.. but you only get to hear from them when the media is reporting a big story..
to a certain extent they are tackling it. i've never heard an imam or muslim councillor openly state its okay to kill people.. what i've heard is them saying killing is wrong..
i know mr blair got a busy job sending letters out to the families soldiers being killed in Afghanistan,.. but he gotta take his job seriously imo..
what doesn't he understand about the fact.. that no matter how hard muslim leaders tell the muslims of this country to stop blowing themselves up, britian is waging a war on t-ERROR, anyone with half a brain cell can tell when u wage war, there's gna be retaliation.. even a nursery kid understands the concept of - u hit me, i hit u back..
anyways.. thats old news.. been there done that.. heard the arguments on why we should bomb Iraq.. don't change a thing.
The biggest priority of not only Muslim leaders but Muslims in general are to get Muslims back into Islam.. back into the mosques, back to Dawah.. what the Muslim leaders gotta do is chuck the bullsh*t mr blair says back in his face..
what the government is doing is creating a barrier between the Muslims and the people of the UK.. He needs to listen to the concerns of not only the Muslim communities but all communities in the UK.. telling the world that the terror problem aint his.. but the problem of the Muslims is disgusting.. I really don't understand how he can get away with it..??
[b][i]Round and round the Ka'bah,
Like a good Sahabah,
One step, Two step,
All the way to jannah[/i][/b]
How exactly are Muslim "leaders" (whoever they are) meant to tackle extremism.
The thing that makes people angry is the images of dead Muslims coming through from all over the world - Kashmir , Gujurat , Palestine etc.
Stop these abuses and youve gone a long way to solve your problems.
As for the Muslim leaders here in Britian , i doubt many young Muslims listen to them.
Yes i agree we should route this out within our midst.
Theres so much information and properganda out there you dont know what to read and what to trust. For example one person may interpret some information different to someone else thus he/she will then act upon it differently to the latter.
Islam is based upon Logic and common sense if a person hits you then Islam teaches you to turn the other cheek but if that same person keeps hitting you, you have a right to defend yourself.
This can also be interpreted in many ways for example the idiots who carried out 9/11 or 7/7 thought that by protecting the muslims and making the non muslims aware of our presence that they should do what they did. But what they failed to realise or understand that by doing what they did they actually fuelled the situation and made it even worse.
I mean how is someone going to symmpathise with you if you go and punch them in the face.
I believe suicide bombings, targetting innocent civilians is totally unislamic and people who do this out of sheer desperation have been mislead. under no circumstance in Islam are you allowed to take youre own life, you live to fight another day as the saying goes.
I understand why Palestinians to this as they are being brutally occupied by the zionists but i still cannot accept that even in their scenario that they have the right to commit suicide and kill innocent civilians.
We are meant to lead by example and i understand its easier saying it then actually doing it. When you are put into a situation where youre whole family has been wiped out and you are targeted and manipulated every day and when you try to defend yourself you are made out as a terrorist that makes people do allsorts of crazy things like blowing yourself up, then can you blame them. But that is a very extreme scenario.
Damn this stuff vexes me.
Islam is the Key to paradise but without practice it won't open the gates.
there were quite a few 7/7 remembrances in mosques in London today
my sister attended one and I may go to one later
some imams do make an effort
ok blair is saying MUSLIMS NEEDS TO DO MORE TO FIGHT EXTREMISM, and it is we who need to sort it out from within...
my question is what PRACTICALLY AND REALISTICALLY can muslims do?
Muslims and Non-Muslims are working on two entirely different wavelengths about terrorism: what it is; how big a problem it is; who is doing it; why it is happening; and what should be done about it.
I don't think Non-Muslim leaders are really listening to Muslim leaders' suggestions and as a result Muslim leaders stopped any active involvement in stopping terrorism, then Non-Muslim leaders drafted up resolutions to stop terrorism and Muslims found them disagreeable to such an extent they oppose them utterly.
It's complete chaos.
Best descriotion of the situation I have read so far!
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
Descriptions rarely lead to solutions... I was working with a Muslim on an anti-terror proposal a little while ago, and I got a total brick wall from: the FBI, the Military, CIA, NSA, NHS, Governor, my local Senator (who is an old family friend) and pretty much every last authority we talked to.
The crazy thing was that even though it was a very good project, and would have answered a major problem THEY brought up, because it was within the framework of this "different wavelength" they completely dismissed it.
That's a huge problem
But its good to know what is wrong.
I do disagree that people have stopped working towards a solution altogether. (May be different accross the pond though). Its just it gets wasted.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
Well... it's a lot different here. From what I gather of England there were preexisting problems between Muslims and Non-Muslims analagous to the problems we have here in the South. We've never had problems like those divided on religious or cultural lines before... it was always race. I get the feeling the lack of communication between non muslims and muslims goes deeper than just a few communication breakdowns in the aftermath - and that's a whole other mess.
The simple truth is you can't defeat the current threat of Al Qaeda terrorism in Britain.
No matter how many Muslims (leaders, scholars, or ordinary) speak against terrorism, no matter how many talks you organise, no matter how much you improve citizenship education, no matter what you do to mosques, no matter how many inter-faith dialogues there are, no matter how much the police improves its community relations, no matter how much coverage anyone gets on TV, it won't make a difference to the 100, 200 or however many people are out there actively planning the next attack.
200 people in a diverse and complex community of 2.5 million people in a country of 60 million people are needles in a haystack. It is almost impossible to get through to them. Once they make the decision to carry out a terrorist attack they become reclusive and isolate themselves from society both physically and mentally.
No matter what discussion Muslims are having on a TV channel or in a mosque if the potential-bombers aren't watching or listening it's not gonna make a diference to them. Even if they are watching or listening they are most probably well past the point where they are willing to listen to reason.
If these guy are stopped it will most likely be for a lack of resources, paranoia, or if a few get hit by a bus.
In the long run all societies will have members who are susceptible to being brainwashed, joining death cults, and committing terrorism.
I disagree, this isn't as simple as a few guys being brainwashed and strapping explosives to themselves.
Terror organizations like Al Qaeda are complicated networks, they train, plan and are generously funded. While the random crackpots like Ted Kaczynski cannot reasonably be prevented, you can attack the organizational structure of terrorist groups like Al Qaeda.
That doesn't mean you are going to "stop" every act of terror altogether, it does mean: you can make it more difficult for them, by cutting their money and disrupting their training; you can thwart their plans by gathering intelligence on their future attacks and by penetrating their organization; and you can keep an eye on those actors who show up again and again causing trouble (like Zawahiri, Zarqawi etc) - the "leaders."
In that way you can greatly reduce the threat of terrorism coming from terror organizations - for the simple reason that there is something physical to strike at.
With the unibomber profile you cannot since all the planning funding training weapons gathering and implimentation is from one person with a far smaller number of funds and resources being moved around.
"Winning" the war on terror in my mind is a two step process: Putting the systems and institutions in place to effectively penetrate and dis-integrate the organizational structures of terrorist groups; and addressing the root causes of terror, whether they be the conditions of failed states or the continuation of failed policies. But even when those two steps are taken care of, the threat of terrorism will continue to exist since, some naturally slip through the cracks and you can only hope to reduce the probability of a successful attack.
Therefore a third condition is needed, society has to have a plan to deal with terrorist attacks in a manner causes the least amount of distruption, this means: more effective and better coordinated disaster response; better crowd control; media and message control to prevent a panic; and a plan to get society up and running again in the quickest amount of time possible so that as little as possible social distruption is affected.
After all that society is simply and slowly going to have to accept that the danger of terrorism is as everpresent today and in the future as it was yesterday and before 9/11, madrid and 7/7.
We shouldn't throw our hands in the air and say this is too difficult when there are options left on the table to deal with the situation in a more effective manner.
I was talking specifically about the threat to Britain and what communities and community leaders can do. They can build up relations with other each other. They can even try to reason with the terrorists. But reasoning won't work - because the terrorists are so few and they're not likely to listen anyway. In this respect telling Muslim leaders to "do more" is a bit redundant. The long-term threat from al Qaeda may get thwarted (becasue it'll reduce the number of volunteers) but it won't help in dealing with the current problem.
The 7/7 bombers most likely had contact with only one al Qaeda "member" and the bombs were home-made. Financial tracking could not have hindered them much. The 21/7 bombers were caught but as yet no al Qaeda connection has emerged. Either they were inspired by Al Qaeda from afar or they had contact with only one al Qaeda man who then found it easy to slip out.
Better intel and policing is what's needed. And that can only come from gov. Siddique Khan was known to the security services. The local Muslim community had even contacted the police about Siddique Khan after he tried spreading extremist views in a mosque. Siddique Khan should have been picked up earlier. The fact that wasn't is down to the need for more resources being ploughed into intel.
[url=http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/A... down the unit hunting for bin Laden[/url] certainly isn't going to reduce the wider threat.
Do not bundle them in the same group as the original bombers.
I still am concerned that not a single person has been charged in connection with the original bombings.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.