Salam,
Today whilst in a supermarket I saw a brother with a beard, well built standing by the door as a security guard. As I walked in and noticed him I paid my Salams and then continued to walk into the store.
It then occured to me what happens if he has to restrain of remove a female from the store (physically)? What hurdles does he face?
The same applies to a muslim police officer. What hurdles do they face if having to arrest a member of the opposite sex, get bitten by a dog whilst attending a call or even responding to a clear out at a bar or brothel?
Where should the lines be drawn and should we take more care in choosing the jobs we take?
Just shoot the person dead. Much easier.
On the other hand you could be walking by a pond/lake/river and see someone of the opposite gender drowning. Who do we save?
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
thats not a problem for me becasue there are no ponds in oldham lol
"ThiS WoRlD Iz A PrIsOn 4 A BeLiVeR AnD PaRaDiSe 4 A NoN-BeLiVeR.........."
"Verily actions are (judged) by intentions, and for every person is what he intended."
-Bukhari and Muslim
surely the whole INTENTION of restraining or removing a female who is causing trouble is not to cause Fitna (infact it is to reduce Fitna).
without being disrespectful, your view reminds me of the story (I'm not sure how accurate it is - but the message remains) of a few years ago in Saudi Arabia: There was a serious fire in a girls' school and as the girls tried to escape, the police stopped them leaving the building because they weren't appropriatly covered. Some police officers beat them with truncheons until they were made to go back into the school to get their veils - not surprisingly many of them passed away.
This is SURELY not a moment to worry as much about the Fitna of seeing or touching members of the opposite sex?!
Don't just do something! Stand there.
Security guards aren't allowed to touch. Touching can amount to battery. Different story for being a police officer.
He who sacrifices his conscience to ambition, burns a picture to obtain the ashes!
Just coz security guards arent allowed to touch doesnt mean that dont. I know of secuity guards who have told me with their own mouth what they do when nobody aint looking.
There might be a moral obligation on that person to save the person drowning but not a legal one According to English law on omissions, if someone is drowning and you just walk away then the law cant do jack.
As a copper or security guard there is a chance you might have to restrain a person of the opposite sex. Its your choice then to determine whether you wanna undertake such a career.
No not the gum drop buttons! – Gingy
so what if we lived in a country that was 99.9% Muslim? should we just have no police or security guards?
i understand that this is not the case in Britain (yet!) but I'm just saying it for arguments' sake.
Don't just do something! Stand there.
^^^^ no because we would all be good Muslims and live in peace and harmony.
No not the gum drop buttons! – Gingy
alhamdulillah!
just like in Pakistan
Don't just do something! Stand there.
'Course. Totally harmony. All we need is the Pax. The G-32 Paxilon Hydrochlorate that we can add to the air processors.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
...unless there is special relationship between the person who's drowning and the person who decides to walk away, parent/child relationship for example.
I get SO mad when I hear what some stupid extremists are doing! The religious police of Saudi Arabia are a WASTE of MONEY, SPACE and TIME!
Chin up, mate! Life's too short.
Personally i dont see why this is an issue. If it comes down to it a security guard or a police officers job is to keep the peace. And if that involves man-handling a person of the opposite sex. Then do it... its better than the alternative.
Yeah, but you remember how that turned out last time dont you. [size=7](REAVERS!)[/size]
Back in BLACK
There is still no legal obligation on the rescuer just a moral one.
No not the gum drop buttons! – Gingy
For example, if a 3 year old child is drowning in a pond (lets say a meter deep), the parent can just watch their child drown, is that what you're saying, huh huh?
If you still think I'm wrong then I suggest you go back and check your law book
What uif the parent is wheelchair-bound and would drown him/herself?
What then? ANSWER ME WHAT THEN? EH? EH?
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
They can just call for help instead of just walking/going away
Ignore what i said previously i must have been half asleep.
No obviously not in that situation that’s one of the exceptions in regards to the law on omissions, a parents owes a duty of care to their child. I’m on about some random person drowning; there is no duty on the rescuer in that situation.
I know my stuff you stick to your subject and il stick to mine orite
No not the gum drop buttons! – Gingy
what if your employed as a lifeguard?
wouldn't u have to touch members of the opposite sex in order to save them?
as i said before, actions are judged on there intentions.
Don't just do something! Stand there.
Obviously the world would be a better place if we all stepped up and lent a hand when needed. Petty questions such as whether one can touch the opposite sex for the greater good should be swept aside. Obviously any moral issues over such contact are intended to preserve morals, and not to impede the prevention of wrongdoing or saving of a life.
The law might not demand that we be heroes, but surely Muslim scholars would agree? In that case one should not hesitate to accept such responsibility.
well that's why those kind of jobs should be avoided.
yeah, Heaven forbid you have to actually save a life!
(the thing is we live in a non-muslim society, so certain jobs can be covered by non-muslims here. But just imagine we lived in a Muslim society. There could still be a need for life guards.)
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
that was my point of mentioning it.
but then again Allah (swt) has said in the Quran that if he had willed, he would have made us all Muslims, so maybe it is his will that kafir-scum can save us from drowning!
Don't just do something! Stand there.
you no what i meant, jobs which require physical contact with women/men should be avoided if possible.
if we lived in a muslim country then the whole situation would be different, there would be female muslim lifeguards so there wouldn't be a problem!
Unless the potential drownee was closer to you...
We are playing with total hypotheticals here though. ANyone can win as logn as the rules are absurd enough.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
No there wouldnt be coz there would be no beaches. Even if they were single sex beaches it wouldnt stop the member of the opposite sex looking. In a Muslim country everyone would have their own swimming pool in their mansions
No not the gum drop buttons! – Gingy
There would still be sea and ocean. I am sure Gaza has a beach. So does Egypt and a few other countries.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
Noor, if I saw you were drowning or about to get hit by a bus would you want me to pull you out of harm's way?
If I could perform a life-saving operation for you, free on the NHS, and the only female doctor with the relevant expertise cost many hundreds of thousands of pounds, would you sooner set up a special charity trust and have the woman do it?
And in either instance, if I was a Muslim would I be in the wrong job?
What if it happens at a Ferry landing? Most people I know can't afford mansions.
Chin up, mate! Life's too short.
No, i would prefer it if you left me there, because dying by any of those two means would make me a shaheedah. So thanks but no thanks!
No. I would be fine with you operating on me, but obviously if there was a woman there then I’d choose her.
Well, as i said all jobs that require physical contact with the opposite sex should be avoided but it aint forbidden.
:!: Getting hit by a bus or drowning would make you a shaheeda!? Doesn't refusing to be rescued amount to suicide?
It just sounds like such a weak argument. Maybe some forumites can provide some textural background on the subject that would clarify your position.
Pages