"Tigger" wrote:

"salaf" wrote:

"Odysseus" wrote:

I think this "British First" "Muslim First" junk is the wrong way to think about it.

I agree.Firstly one is a religion and the other is a [b]nationality[/b].They don't occupy the same realms.

Secondly the idea that the [b]nation[/b] state should be the centre of everyone's identity is basically what Italian fascism stood for.There's no such thing as "feeling British".You're either a citizen or not.

That's the problem with Europe, the national identity is not an evolving concept it's frozen to a language religion and ethnicity.

How many languages would you like to have in briton and which ones would you choose? It's easier to communicate if you speak the same language. There are more ethnicities and religions in europe than any other place I know and you say it's not evolving?

"Omrow" wrote:

Salam

We should concentrate on being humans first.

If you lose your humanity, what are you.

seeing they see not

hearing they hear not

neither do they understand

deaf, dum and blind

they are heartless

cold, brutal and selfish

devoid of pure love

them you see earn bread

they're naught but walking dead

Omrow

by the way why do u have a thing abt spoons isnt that a bit weird ???

what EXACTLY is integration?
what does Blair mean by integration?
how can Muslims integrate more?
why should we?
arent we integrated already?
isnt integration a two way process, do the ENGLISH born want to integrate with the non english?
where do muslims draw the line? does integration mean we act, behave, think like non muslims?

[color=indigo][b]Blair is always banging on about intergration, why thou?!
Were intergrated enough!!! Is he blind or sumthing????!
Muslims and non-muslims have intergrated enough over the past years and are doing so now. We already have brothers/sisters in pubs and clubs! What more does he want???!
Some may not not want to mingle and thats up to them. Blair cannot tell people how to live their lives and who they should and shouldnt mingle with. [/b][/color]

"Noori...*" wrote:

[color=indigo][b]Blair is always banging on about intergration, why thou?!
Were intergrated enough!!! Is he blind or sumthing????!
Muslims and non-muslims have intergrated enough over the past years and are doing so now. We already have brothers/sisters in pubs and clubs! What more does he want???!
Some may not not want to mingle and thats up to them. Blair cannot tell people how to live their lives and who they should and shouldnt mingle with. [/b][/color]

but what is integration? what doe sit mean to you? what do u think blair means?

Quote:

but what is integration ?

[b][color=indigo]Mixing, blending with other people. In this case non-muslims.[/color][/b]

Quote:

what doe sit mean to you?

[color=indigo][b]Means jak all, couldn't give a toss to be honest. Why shall i intergrate with someone who doesn't really wana intergrate with me! Everyone is always on about how we muslims should intergrate with other non-muslim english citizens, but how many of them really want to intergrate with us? Why isn't it ever "Non-Muslims need to intergrate?"Some take one look at us and thats it, they don't wana no us but if Muslims did that it would mean they are isolating themselves!! It's always how we should talk to our neighbours and blaady daa, but how many of them come up to us?

Blair needs to open his eyes and see we do INTERGRATE!!!!! The guy needs to pay a visit to specsavers!!!

Each time i go to the shops, catch a bus, go to college, walk on the road, to a resturant etc, im intergrating. Muslims and non-muslims work together, go to school together, catch the same busess together and some even live together!!! Now what more does the dog want?![/b][/color]

Quote:

what do u think blair means?

[b][color=indigo]Physically interacting with non-muslims, going out with them; clubbing, drinking, girlfrend/boyfrend, living with them and bla bla bla!!! cz we as Muslims are doing everything else apart from that now what else could he possible mean? Does he want us to break the laws of Islam just to bloody Intergrate and please him and the kafir?!

Learning the english language, dressing like the english has got nowt to do with intergration, every culture has a unique way of dressing and has their own langauge. But as were living in the UK we must learn English, so Muslims must learn english, but why not the African carrbiean, polish and other europeon people? Cz you never hear that they need to learn english but the muslims.

Why isn't it that Blair hasn't ever mentioned Sikhs, Hindus or Jews need to intergrate? In the UK there are many pedominant all Hindu/Sikh areas, but thats ok. They aint bombers so they don't need to intergrate. But isn't that now stereotyping all Muslims into one category?

In his next speech Blair needs to define word for word what he exactly means by Intergration. He needs to say what we Muslims need to do cz he's always banging on about this issue.[/color][/b]

"Noori...*" wrote:

[color=indigo][b]In his next speech Blair needs to define word for word what he exactly means by Intergration. He needs to say what we Muslims need to do cz he's always banging on about this issue.[/color][/b]

"[url=http://www.guardian.co.uk/uklatest/story/0,,-6267641,00.html wrote:

The Guardian[/url]"]The Prime Minister insisted "tolerance" was the country's hallmark, and "hate-mongers" were not welcome.

"We protect this attitude by defending it," he said in a lecture at Downing Street. "Our tolerance is part of what makes Britain, Britain. So conform to it; or don't come here. We don't want the hate-mongers, whatever their race, religion or creed."

"Great Man Honey" wrote:

"Noori...*" wrote:

[color=indigo][b]In his next speech Blair needs to define word for word what he exactly means by Intergration. He needs to say what we Muslims need to do cz he's always banging on about this issue.[/color][/b]

[quote="[url=http://www.guardian.co.uk/uklatest/story/0,,-6267641,00.html]The Guardian[/url]"]The Prime Minister insisted "tolerance" was the country's hallmark, and "hate-mongers" were not welcome.

"We protect this attitude by defending it," he said in a lecture at Downing Street. "Our tolerance is part of what makes Britain, Britain. So conform to it; or don't come here. We don't want the hate-mongers, whatever their race, religion or creed."

[/quote]

If it was that simple he could actually name names and identify specific cases where people have been mongering hate - eg Abu Hamza, Omar Bakri, Anjem Choudhry, Abu Izzedin, Nick Griffin.

But he chooses to call them a "minority of the Muslim community." This defines them and the problem as part and parcel of the Muslim community. If there is intolerance in this country then it's coming from the Muslims. They're the ones with the problem and they're the ones who need to sort themselves out.

"Beast" wrote:

"Great Man Honey" wrote:

"Noori...*" wrote:

[color=indigo][b]In his next speech Blair needs to define word for word what he exactly means by Intergration. He needs to say what we Muslims need to do cz he's always banging on about this issue.[/color][/b]

[quote="[url=http://www.guardian.co.uk/uklatest/story/0,,-6267641,00.html]The Guardian[/url]"]The Prime Minister insisted "tolerance" was the country's hallmark, and "hate-mongers" were not welcome.

"We protect this attitude by defending it," he said in a lecture at Downing Street. "Our tolerance is part of what makes Britain, Britain. So conform to it; or don't come here. We don't want the hate-mongers, whatever their race, religion or creed."

If it was that simple he could actually name names and identify specific cases where people have been mongering hate - eg Abu Hamza, Omar Bakri, Anjem Choudhry, Abu Izzedin, Nick Griffin.

But he chooses to call them a "minority of the Muslim community." This defines them and the problem as part and parcel of the Muslim community. If there is intolerance in this country then it's coming from the Muslims. They're the ones with the problem and they're the ones who need to sort themselves out.[/quote]

[b][color=indigo]As Blair would say this due to the lack of intergration between Muslims and non-muslims.

Whatever.[/color][/b]

intergration?
hmm doesnt he mean socialising not goin to the exstent noori was on bwt like being freinds or having mixed youthclubs etc. not breaking the religion im not quite sure but i think im right and that blair was only saying we should mix more personally i think where doin our part now ots there turn

"F4NZO" wrote:

intergration?
hmm doesnt he mean socialising not goin to the exstent noori was on bwt like being freinds or having mixed youthclubs etc. not breaking the religion im not quite sure but i think im right and that blair was only saying we should mix more personally i think where doin our part now ots there turn

Blair said in his speech that the gov will not give funding to groups which are setup aroung religion and ethnicity. EG there'll be no funding for Pakistani community centres or Afro-Carribean youth groups - any such org has to include all members of a local community.

This, I think, is a good thing. However he could made this propsoal without having to talk the way he did about "hate-mongers", "intolerance", and Muslims.

well dats da labour partry 4 u includin of the unnecessary things btw wat is mpacuk nd can i join

Quote:

intergration?
hmm doesnt he mean socialising not goin to the exstent noori was on bwt like being freinds or having mixed youthclubs etc. not breaking the religion im not quite sure but i think im right and that blair was only saying we should mix more personally i think where doin our part now ots there turn

[color=indigo][b]Yeah but we do that already, so i really don't have a clue to what he's banging onabout.[/b][/color]

Quote:

Blair said in his speech that the gov will not give funding to groups which are setup aroung religion and ethnicity. EG there'll be no funding for Pakistani community centres or Afro-Carribean youth groups - any such org has to include all members of a local community.

[color=indigo][b]Fair point.[/b][/color]

Quote:

However he could made this propsoal without having to talk the way he did about "hate-mongers", "intolerance", and Muslims.

[color=indigo][b]Well thats Blair for ya.[/b][/color]

"Noori...*" wrote:

Quote:

intergration?
hmm doesnt he mean socialising not goin to the exstent noori was on bwt like being freinds or having mixed youthclubs etc. not breaking the religion im not quite sure but i think im right and that blair was only saying we should mix more personally i think where doin our part now ots there turn

[color=indigo][b]Yeah but we do that already, so i really don't have a clue to what he's banging onabout.[/b][/color]

yeh exactly

"F4NZO" wrote:

well dats da labour partry 4 u includin of the unnecessary things btw wat is mpacuk nd can i join

MPACUK is a British Muslim lobby group. They try to get Muslims politicaly active and ensure balanced coverage of Muslims in the media.

You can join if you want to. But if you follow their campaigns and send emails and letters to the people they encourage you to send letters and emails to then that should be enough.

Although, I think, they can be a bit loud and in-your-face at times. There is much room for improvement and refinement.

Salam.

Clearly again, they [the govt] have very diferent aims to the ones they set out.

Be British? Intergrate?
all acceptable, yeh ok.

then they start the muslim thing..why did i see that coming?
they are not after intergration...they are being clear seperatists ..islam is a way of life, they know it. They also know that ANY and i mean ANY muslim, -especially the youth ..who ofcourse are the future genreration and who they are aiming all their policies to, - will call themselves and back Islam foremost.

But Blair is on his way out now anyways, so i dont think he cares about the crap he lets out of his mouth anymore

Quote:

Physically interacting with non-muslims, going out with them; clubbing, drinking, girlfrend/boyfrend, living with them and bla bla bla!!! cz we as Muslims are doing everything else apart from that now what else could he possible mean? Does he want us to break the laws of Islam just to bloody Intergrate and please him and the kafir?!

Learning the english language, dressing like the english has got nowt to do with intergration, every culture has a unique way of dressing and has their own langauge. But as were living in the UK we must learn English, so Muslims must learn english, but why not the African carrbiean, polish and other europeon people? Cz you never hear that they need to learn english but the muslims.

Why isn't it that Blair hasn't ever mentioned Sikhs, Hindus or Jews need to intergrate? In the UK there are many pedominant all Hindu/Sikh areas, but thats ok. They aint bombers so they don't need to intergrate. But isn't that now stereotyping all Muslims into one category?

too true sis..!!!!

"Omrow" wrote:

Nasha. I dont.

Thats just a propaganda started by the cutlery department of the revival.

[color=red][b]oh i didnt know the revival had a cutlery department lol [/color][/b]

do you feel that first generation Muslims who have lived here for 30 yeras and cant speak a word of English and still think they live back home are damaging integration?

"TheRevivalEditor" wrote:

do you feel that first generation Muslims who have lived here for 30 yeras and cant speak a word of English and still think they live back home are damaging integration?

[b][color=indigo]No not at all. You always get people from different cultures speaking different languages and from different ages. Just because your living in England doesn't mean you have to learn the english language although it will help if you do. Just by speaking English doesn't mean your intergrating with society, the older generation who live here have done a lot over the years and have contributed loadz to society without speaking good English at all. Nowadays people are using language as a barier to communication and intergration but a couple of years that wasn't a problem at all.[/color][/b]

Blair's speech was nothing to do with all this.

"Mr Honey's Day Out" wrote:

Blair's speech was nothing to do with all this.

Actually Blair's speech was something to do with all this:

"Tony Blair's speechwriter" wrote:

Sixth, we should share a common language. Equal opportunity for all groups requires that they be conversant in that common language. It is a matter both of cohesion and of justice that we should set the use of English as a condition of citizenship. In addition, for those who wish to take up residence permanently in the UK, we will include a requirement to pass an English test before such permanent residency is granted.

Correction noted.