British First Muslim Second

Omrow —

Salam

Muslims are advised to integrate fully within the British society.

Also, muslims in non-muslim countries are citizens of that state first.
Their faith comes second.

Therefore, born and bred in England, Madiya is English first and muslim second.

[quote]BBC

Thursday, 2 November 2006

[b]Obey UK law, Iran ex-leader urges [/b]

" If someone does not share their religion with me, they are definitely respectable and entitled to receive compassion as human beings ", Mohammad Khatami

UK Muslims should obey British law as well as accepting the obligations of citizenship, the former president of Iran has urged.
Mohammad Khatami, during a three-day visit to Britain, told BBC News the UK was right to fear radicalism.
But it had added to the problem by getting involved in Iraq, he said.
Mr Khatami, the most senior Iranian to visit the UK since the 1979 Islamic revolution, said his mission was to remove barriers between East and West.
His attempts at moderation and reform in Iran were ended by the election of the hard line President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad last year.
But, in an interview with BBC Radio 4's Today programme, he said he was still working to tackle extremism wherever it existed.

'Extremist' Bush

Mr Khatami condemned "insurgent terrorism" in Iraq.
And he also criticised the "extremist" Bush administration.
The former president said his mission was to break down barriers between the great religions and civilisations of East and West.
To that end, Mr Khatami said that, while British Muslims should recognise they had no religious obligation to wear a veil, they also had the right to wear one.
[b]"You are British first,"[/b] he said - before calling for the Muslim faith to be fully respected in a Christian country.
On Tuesday, Mr Khatami received an honorary degree from the University of St Andrews.
After being met with protests from some students and Iranian exiles, he delivered a lecture in which he talked of a "borderless friendship".
Opponents claim people were tortured, jailed and executed during Mr Khatami's presidency.
His visit to St Andrews provoked fury from human rights organisations and politicians.

[b]US policy 'a joke'[/b]

" Democracy is not something to get exported ", Mohammad Khatami

The former president of Iran, Mohammad Khatami, has branded US attempts to impose Western-style democracy in the Middle East as "a great joke".

Mr Khatami was critical of the US-led military campaigns in Afghanistan and Iraq, which he said had led to more Muslims supporting al-Qaeda.
In a wide-ranging interview with the BBC, Mr Khatami, said he was committed to fighting extremism around the world.
He also called on US and UK to leave Iraq in an effort to reduce violence.
Mr Khatami, the most senior Iranian to visit the UK since 1979, served two terms as Iranian president from 1997 until 2005, when he was replaced by the current leader, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad.

Flawed plans

Speaking at Chatham House, a foreign policy think-tank in London, Mr Khatami said Iran was supporting efforts to build strong governments in Iraq and Afghanistan.
But he said the near neighbours of both countries should be in charge of solving the problems of insecurity, and that "foreign alien forces" should leave the region as soon as possible.
"This has been a terrible idea. You know, the Americans are suffering, and you will see the result of this mistake in the upcoming polls in the United States."
The idea that Western-style democracy could be "exported" to the Middle East was flawed from the beginning, Mr Khatami said.
"It's a great joke - the greatest joke that Mr Bush said, that he would like to export democracy to the Middle East.
"Democracy is not something to get exported."

Fighting extremism

During his term in office Mr Khatami was regarded as a reformist leader, whose policies were not always supported by clerics on Iran's ruling Guardian Council.
Mr Khatami now maintains that he aims to tackle extremism wherever it exists, and to break down barriers between the great religions and civilisations of East and West, says the BBC's diplomatic correspondent, James Robbins.
He condemned what he called "insurgent terrorism" in Iraq but also branded the Bush administration extremist.
During the speech he also urged British Muslims to obey UK law, saying they are "British first" and had no religious obligation to wear a scarf or veil.
His visit to the UK has made Mr Khatami the most senior Iranian politician to visit the country since the Islamic Revolution in 1979, but has also sparked protests.
He was forced to enter Chatham House through a side entrance to avoid several hundred demonstrators.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6108600.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/6108798.stm

[/quote]

Omrow

Forum

stmark — Wed, 22 Nov 2006 - 22:06

[quote="Tigger"][quote="salaf"][quote="Odysseus"]I think this "British First" "Muslim First" junk is the wrong way to think about it.[/quote]

I agree.Firstly one is a religion and the other is a [b]nationality[/b].They don't occupy the same realms.

Secondly the idea that the [b]nation[/b] state should be the centre of everyone's identity is basically what Italian fascism stood for.There's no such thing as "feeling British".You're either a citizen or not.[/quote]

That's the problem with Europe, the national identity is not an evolving concept it's frozen to a language religion and ethnicity.[/quote]How many languages would you like to have in briton and which ones would you choose? It's easier to communicate if you speak the same language. There are more ethnicities and religions in europe than any other place I know and you say it's not evolving?

**Nisha** — Wed, 29 Nov 2006 - 19:38

[quote="Omrow"]Salam

We should concentrate on being humans first.

If you lose your humanity, what are you.

seeing they see not

hearing they hear not

neither do they understand

deaf, dum and blind

they are heartless

cold, brutal and selfish

devoid of pure love

them you see earn bread

they're naught but walking dead

Omrow[/quote]by the way why do u have a thing abt spoons isnt that a bit weird ???

Sajid Iqbal — Fri, 8 Dec 2006 - 17:37

what EXACTLY is integration?
what does Blair mean by integration?
how can Muslims integrate more?
why should we?
arent we integrated already?
isnt integration a two way process, do the ENGLISH born want to integrate with the non english?
where do muslims draw the line? does integration mean we act, behave, think like non muslims?

Noor — Fri, 8 Dec 2006 - 21:39

[color=indigo][b]Blair is always banging on about intergration, why thou?!
Were intergrated enough!!! Is he blind or sumthing????!
Muslims and non-muslims have intergrated enough over the past years and are doing so now. We already have brothers/sisters in pubs and clubs! What more does he want???!
Some may not not want to mingle and thats up to them. Blair cannot tell people how to live their lives and who they should and shouldnt mingle with. [/b][/color]

Sajid Iqbal — Sat, 9 Dec 2006 - 19:11

[quote="Noori...*"][color=indigo][b]Blair is always banging on about intergration, why thou?!
Were intergrated enough!!! Is he blind or sumthing????!
Muslims and non-muslims have intergrated enough over the past years and are doing so now. We already have brothers/sisters in pubs and clubs! What more does he want???!
Some may not not want to mingle and thats up to them. Blair cannot tell people how to live their lives and who they should and shouldnt mingle with. [/b][/color][/quote]
but what is integration? what doe sit mean to you? what do u think blair means?

Noor — Sat, 9 Dec 2006 - 19:35

[quote]
but what is integration ?[/quote]

[b][color=indigo]Mixing, blending with other people. In this case non-muslims.[/color][/b]

[quote]what doe sit mean to you?[/quote]

[color=indigo][b]Means jak all, couldn't give a toss to be honest. Why shall i intergrate with someone who doesn't really wana intergrate with me! Everyone is always on about how we muslims should intergrate with other non-muslim english citizens, but how many of them really want to intergrate with us? Why isn't it ever "Non-Muslims need to intergrate?"Some take one look at us and thats it, they don't wana no us but if Muslims did that it would mean they are isolating themselves!! It's always how we should talk to our neighbours and blaady daa, but how many of them come up to us?

Blair needs to open his eyes and see we do INTERGRATE!!!!! The guy needs to pay a visit to specsavers!!!

Each time i go to the shops, catch a bus, go to college, walk on the road, to a resturant etc, im intergrating. Muslims and non-muslims work together, go to school together, catch the same busess together and some even live together!!! Now what more does the dog want?![/b][/color]

[quote]what do u think blair means?[/quote]

[b][color=indigo]Physically interacting with non-muslims, going out with them; clubbing, drinking, girlfrend/boyfrend, living with them and bla bla bla!!! cz we as Muslims are doing everything else apart from that now what else could he possible mean? Does he want us to break the laws of Islam just to bloody Intergrate and please him and the kafir?!

Learning the english language, dressing like the english has got nowt to do with intergration, every culture has a unique way of dressing and has their own langauge. But as were living in the UK we must learn English, so Muslims must learn english, but why not the African carrbiean, polish and other europeon people? Cz you never hear that they need to learn english but the muslims.

Why isn't it that Blair hasn't ever mentioned Sikhs, Hindus or Jews need to intergrate? In the UK there are many pedominant all Hindu/Sikh areas, but thats ok. They aint bombers so they don't need to intergrate. But isn't that now stereotyping all Muslims into one category?

In his next speech Blair needs to define word for word what he exactly means by Intergration. He needs to say what we Muslims need to do cz he's always banging on about this issue.[/color][/b]

Mr Honey's Day Out — Sat, 9 Dec 2006 - 19:40

[quote="Noori...*"][color=indigo][b]In his next speech Blair needs to define word for word what he exactly means by Intergration. He needs to say what we Muslims need to do cz he's always banging on about this issue.[/color][/b][/quote]

[quote="[url=http://www.guardian.co.uk/uklatest/story/0,,-6267641,00.html]The Guardian[/url]"]The Prime Minister insisted "tolerance" was the country's hallmark, and "hate-mongers" were not welcome.

"We protect this attitude by defending it," he said in a lecture at Downing Street. "Our tolerance is part of what makes Britain, Britain. So conform to it; or don't come here. We don't want the hate-mongers, whatever their race, religion or creed."[/quote]

Beast — Sat, 9 Dec 2006 - 21:02

[quote="Great Man Honey"][quote="Noori...*"][color=indigo][b]In his next speech Blair needs to define word for word what he exactly means by Intergration. He needs to say what we Muslims need to do cz he's always banging on about this issue.[/color][/b][/quote]

[quote="[url=http://www.guardian.co.uk/uklatest/story/0,,-6267641,00.html]The Guardian[/url]"]The Prime Minister insisted "tolerance" was the country's hallmark, and "hate-mongers" were not welcome.

"We protect this attitude by defending it," he said in a lecture at Downing Street. "Our tolerance is part of what makes Britain, Britain. So conform to it; or don't come here. We don't want the hate-mongers, whatever their race, religion or creed."[/quote][/quote]

If it was that simple he could actually name names and identify specific cases where people have been mongering hate - eg Abu Hamza, Omar Bakri, Anjem Choudhry, Abu Izzedin, Nick Griffin.

But he chooses to call them a "minority of the Muslim community." This defines them and the problem as part and parcel of the Muslim community. If there is intolerance in this country then it's coming from the Muslims. They're the ones with the problem and they're the ones who need to sort themselves out.

Noor — Sun, 10 Dec 2006 - 17:47

[quote="Beast"][quote="Great Man Honey"][quote="Noori...*"][color=indigo][b]In his next speech Blair needs to define word for word what he exactly means by Intergration. He needs to say what we Muslims need to do cz he's always banging on about this issue.[/color][/b][/quote]

[quote="[url=http://www.guardian.co.uk/uklatest/story/0,,-6267641,00.html]The Guardian[/url]"]The Prime Minister insisted "tolerance" was the country's hallmark, and "hate-mongers" were not welcome.

"We protect this attitude by defending it," he said in a lecture at Downing Street. "Our tolerance is part of what makes Britain, Britain. So conform to it; or don't come here. We don't want the hate-mongers, whatever their race, religion or creed."[/quote][/quote]

If it was that simple he could actually name names and identify specific cases where people have been mongering hate - eg Abu Hamza, Omar Bakri, Anjem Choudhry, Abu Izzedin, Nick Griffin.

But he chooses to call them a "minority of the Muslim community." This defines them and the problem as part and parcel of the Muslim community. If there is intolerance in this country then it's coming from the Muslims. They're the ones with the problem and they're the ones who need to sort themselves out.[/quote]

[b][color=indigo]As Blair would say this due to the lack of intergration between Muslims and non-muslims.

Whatever.[/color][/b]

Funzo — Sun, 10 Dec 2006 - 18:46

intergration?
hmm doesnt he mean socialising not goin to the exstent noori was on bwt like being freinds or having mixed youthclubs etc. not breaking the religion im not quite sure but i think im right and that blair was only saying we should mix more personally i think where doin our part now ots there turn

Beast — Sun, 10 Dec 2006 - 18:51

[quote="F4NZO"]intergration?
hmm doesnt he mean socialising not goin to the exstent noori was on bwt like being freinds or having mixed youthclubs etc. not breaking the religion im not quite sure but i think im right and that blair was only saying we should mix more personally i think where doin our part now ots there turn[/quote]

Blair said in his speech that the gov will not give funding to groups which are setup aroung religion and ethnicity. EG there'll be no funding for Pakistani community centres or Afro-Carribean youth groups - any such org has to include all members of a local community.

This, I think, is a good thing. However he could made this propsoal without having to talk the way he did about "hate-mongers", "intolerance", and Muslims.

Funzo — Sun, 10 Dec 2006 - 18:55

well dats da labour partry 4 u includin of the unnecessary things btw wat is mpacuk nd can i join

Noor — Sun, 10 Dec 2006 - 18:58

[quote]intergration?
hmm doesnt he mean socialising not goin to the exstent noori was on bwt like being freinds or having mixed youthclubs etc. not breaking the religion im not quite sure but i think im right and that blair was only saying we should mix more personally i think where doin our part now ots there turn[/quote]

[color=indigo][b]Yeah but we do that already, so i really don't have a clue to what he's banging onabout.[/b][/color]

[quote]Blair said in his speech that the gov will not give funding to groups which are setup aroung religion and ethnicity. EG there'll be no funding for Pakistani community centres or Afro-Carribean youth groups - any such org has to include all members of a local community. [/quote]

[color=indigo][b]Fair point.[/b][/color]

[quote]However he could made this propsoal without having to talk the way he did about "hate-mongers", "intolerance", and Muslims.[/quote]

[color=indigo][b]Well thats Blair for ya.[/b][/color]

Funzo — Sun, 10 Dec 2006 - 19:00

[quote="Noori...*"][quote]intergration?
hmm doesnt he mean socialising not goin to the exstent noori was on bwt like being freinds or having mixed youthclubs etc. not breaking the religion im not quite sure but i think im right and that blair was only saying we should mix more personally i think where doin our part now ots there turn[/quote]

[color=indigo][b]Yeah but we do that already, so i really don't have a clue to what he's banging onabout.[/b][/color][/quote]
yeh exactly

Beast — Sun, 10 Dec 2006 - 19:05

[quote="F4NZO"]well dats da labour partry 4 u includin of the unnecessary things btw wat is mpacuk nd can i join[/quote]

MPACUK is a British Muslim lobby group. They try to get Muslims politicaly active and ensure balanced coverage of Muslims in the media.

You can join if you want to. But if you follow their campaigns and send emails and letters to the people they encourage you to send letters and emails to then that should be enough.

Although, I think, they can be a bit loud and in-your-face at times. There is much room for improvement and refinement.

cricketgal — Sun, 10 Dec 2006 - 21:16

Salam.

Clearly again, they [the govt] have very diferent aims to the ones they set out.

Be British? Intergrate?
all acceptable, yeh ok.

then they start the muslim thing..why did i see that coming?
they are not after intergration...they are being clear seperatists ..islam is a way of life, they know it. They also know that ANY and i mean ANY muslim, -especially the youth ..who ofcourse are the future genreration and who they are aiming all their policies to, - will call themselves and back Islam foremost.

But Blair is on his way out now anyways, so i dont think he cares about the crap he lets out of his mouth anymore

[quote]Physically interacting with non-muslims, going out with them; clubbing, drinking, girlfrend/boyfrend, living with them and bla bla bla!!! cz we as Muslims are doing everything else apart from that now what else could he possible mean? Does he want us to break the laws of Islam just to bloody Intergrate and please him and the kafir?!

Learning the english language, dressing like the english has got nowt to do with intergration, every culture has a unique way of dressing and has their own langauge. But as were living in the UK we must learn English, so Muslims must learn english, but why not the African carrbiean, polish and other europeon people? Cz you never hear that they need to learn english but the muslims.

Why isn't it that Blair hasn't ever mentioned Sikhs, Hindus or Jews need to intergrate? In the UK there are many pedominant all Hindu/Sikh areas, but thats ok. They aint bombers so they don't need to intergrate. But isn't that now stereotyping all Muslims into one category? [/quote]

too true sis..!!!!

**Nisha** — Mon, 11 Dec 2006 - 15:11

[quote="Omrow"]Nasha. I dont.

Thats just a propaganda started by the cutlery department of the revival.[/quote]
[color=red][b]oh i didnt know the revival had a cutlery department lol [/color][/b]

Sajid Iqbal — Thu, 14 Dec 2006 - 15:55

do you feel that first generation Muslims who have lived here for 30 yeras and cant speak a word of English and still think they live back home are damaging integration?

Noor — Thu, 14 Dec 2006 - 16:16

[quote="TheRevivalEditor"]do you feel that first generation Muslims who have lived here for 30 yeras and cant speak a word of English and still think they live back home are damaging integration?[/quote]

[b][color=indigo]No not at all. You always get people from different cultures speaking different languages and from different ages. Just because your living in England doesn't mean you have to learn the english language although it will help if you do. Just by speaking English doesn't mean your intergrating with society, the older generation who live here have done a lot over the years and have contributed loadz to society without speaking good English at all. Nowadays people are using language as a barier to communication and intergration but a couple of years that wasn't a problem at all.[/color][/b]

Beast — Thu, 14 Dec 2006 - 19:53

[quote="Mr Honey's Day Out"]Blair's speech was nothing to do with all this.[/quote]

Actually Blair's speech was something to do with all this:

[quote="Tony Blair's speechwriter"]Sixth, we should share a common language. Equal opportunity for all groups requires that they be conversant in that common language. It is a matter both of cohesion and of justice that we should set the use of English as a condition of citizenship. In addition, for those who wish to take up residence permanently in the UK, we will include a requirement to pass an English test before such permanent residency is granted.[/quote]