Ex-CIA Agent: Bin Laden is Great Man, Formidable Enemy

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Is there anything about bin Laden that Americans don't know, but should? "Yeah, I think there is. I think our leaders over the last decade have done the American people a disservice in continuing to characterize Osama bin Laden as a thug, as a gangster, as a degenerate personality, as some kind of abhorrent individual," says Scheuer.

"He surely does reprehensible activities, and we should surely take care of that by killing him as soon as we can. But he's not an irrational man. He's a very worthy enemy. He's an enemy to worry about."

"You wrote in your book that he's a great man," says Kroft.

[b]"Yes, certainly a man, without the connotation good or bad, he's a great man in the sense that he's influenced the course of history," says Scheuer.

Does he respect bin Laden? "Until we respect him, we are going to die in numbers that are probably unnecessary," says Scheuer[/b].

Mr. Scheuer: [Osama bin Laden] is really a remarkable man, a great man in many ways, without the connotation positive or negative. He's changed the course of history. You just have to try to take your fourth-grader's class to the White House visitors' center...

Mr. Russert: When you say "great man," people cringe.

Mr. Scheuer: Yes, sir. Absolutely they cringe, but a great man is someone—a great individual is someone who changes the course of history. And certainly in the last five or six years, America has changed dramatically in the way we behave, in the way we travel. Certainly he's bleeding us to death in terms of money. Look at the budget deficit now. Much of that goes against Osama bin Laden.

Mr. Russert: Do you see him as a very formidable enemy?

[b]Mr. Scheuer: Tremendously formidable enemy, sir, an admirable man. If he was on our side, he would be dining at the White House. He would be a freedom fighter, a resistance fighter. It's— and again, that's not to praise him, but it is to say that until we take the measure of the man and the power of his words, we're very much going to be on the short end of the stick.[/b]

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Michael Scheuer seems like an interestin chap - ive heard him speak and read a bit about him - i wonder how the Yanks feel about him?

lol. read this b4. ALLAH works in mysterious ways

Ya ALLAH Madad.
Haq Chaar Yaar

Scheuer seems like a clever guy. He sees through the George "they hate our freedoms" Bush nonsense and says it like it is.

He realises people hate America because of its policies in the Muslim world and not because they have an election system or because they listen to the backstreet boys or any other nonsense.

Though being a fan of the backstreet boys might be considered criminal i suppose... Sad

erm... can you please start to group your posts a little better.

Also many people have said Hitler was a great man if you take his actions out of any moral framework. Many still study his style to become good managers.

You should be able to see the strength's of your enemy. Otherwise those very strength's will pummell you into the ground. However if you recognise them, then you can do something.

"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.

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erm... can you please start to group your posts a little better.

Sorry? :?

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Also many people have said Hitler was a great man if you take his actions out of any moral framework. Many still study his style to become good managers.

I wouldnt compare him to Hitler - not that im a big fan of Bin Laden.

If you look at what Bin Ladens "demands" are - theyre consistent with what most Muslims would want i.e stopping the slaughter of Muslims in Chechnya , Kashmir etc , wanting the Yanks out of Muslim lands , an end to Palestinian oppression.

Its his acts he does which make people distance themselves from him.

His "political manifesto" as Scheuer has called it is pretty much consistent with general Muslim opinion.

"Vedeno" wrote:
Quote:
Is there anything about bin Laden that Americans don't know, but should? "Yeah, I think there is. I think our leaders over the last decade have done the American people a disservice in continuing to characterize Osama bin Laden as a thug, as a gangster, as a degenerate personality, as some kind of abhorrent individual," says Scheuer.

"He surely does reprehensible activities, and we should surely take care of that by killing him as soon as we can. But he's not an irrational man. He's a very worthy enemy. He's an enemy to worry about."

"You wrote in your book that he's a great man," says Kroft.

[b]"Yes, certainly a man, without the connotation good or bad, he's a great man in the sense that he's influenced the course of history," says Scheuer.

Does he respect bin Laden? "Until we respect him, we are going to die in numbers that are probably unnecessary," says Scheuer[/b].

Mr. Scheuer: [Osama bin Laden] is really a remarkable man, a great man in many ways, without the connotation positive or negative. He's changed the course of history. You just have to try to take your fourth-grader's class to the White House visitors' center...

Mr. Russert: When you say "great man," people cringe.

Mr. Scheuer: Yes, sir. Absolutely they cringe, but a great man is someone—a great individual is someone who changes the course of history. And certainly in the last five or six years, America has changed dramatically in the way we behave, in the way we travel. Certainly he's bleeding us to death in terms of money. Look at the budget deficit now. Much of that goes against Osama bin Laden.

Mr. Russert: Do you see him as a very formidable enemy?

[b]Mr. Scheuer: Tremendously formidable enemy, sir, an admirable man. If he was on our side, he would be dining at the White House. He would be a freedom fighter, a resistance fighter. It's— and again, that's not to praise him, but it is to say that until we take the measure of the man and the power of his words, we're very much going to be on the short end of the stick.[/b]

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Michael Scheuer seems like an interestin chap - ive heard him speak and read a bit about him - i wonder how the Yanks feel about him?

this idiot sounds brainwashed

Islam is the Key to paradise but without practice it won't open the gates.

As always the end does not justify the means.

Some demands are always more than reasonable. That is why these people get sympathisers.

But its the means which separates us from such people.

"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.

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Michael Scheuer seems like an interestin chap - ive heard him speak and read a bit about him - i wonder how the Yanks feel about him?

He lost his job at the CIA and his sanity was questioned by several newspapers. So the short answer is "we think he's crazy" - has anyone read his book [url= Hubris[/url]?

In his section "Get Used to and Good at Killing" he recommends "Killing in large numbers is not enough to defeat our Muslim foes. With killing must come a Sherman-like razing of infrastructure. Roads and irrigation systems; bridges, power plants, and crops in the field; fertilizer plants and grain mills - all these and more will need to be destroyed to deny the enemy its support base. Land mines, moreover will be massively reintroduced to seal borders and mountain passes too long, high, or numerous to close with US soldiers. As noted above such actions will yield large civilian casualties, displaced populations and refugee flows."

Page 242

"We can continue using and believing the cant cited above (about maintaining moral conduct in war) or we can act to preserve our way of life - what Mr. Lincoln said is man's last best hope for self government, by engaging in whatever martial behavior is needed"

On 248 he recommends declaring war on Islam.

The guy is a raving whackjob - the first 1-200 pages of his book were informative and interesting, he knows a lot from gathering information all these years, but his conclusions are freaking sociopathic. The guy is a fascist who sounds more like one of bin Laden's lackies than an American, no wonder he speaks of bin laden so highly (as he does in his book too) - he admires him.

Well, that is the danger of implictly agreeing with someone who may share one idea with...

"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.

"Admin" wrote:
Well, that is the danger of implictly agreeing with someone who may share one idea with...

But the idea isn't some sort of reasonable glimmer in a sea of psycho. Scheuer's respect for bin laden is itself looney, and fits perfectly into his looney fantasy of a "bloody minded war on Islam" which he desires so greatly.

It seems Vedeno just gravitates to sociopathic ideas - the coincidence of defending two obviously unbalanced individuals in the course of one week is a little eerie.

He is young. He will learn.

(For the yank that is a quote from 2Dtv... a sketch comic shpow where sven is always saying that about rooney... after he does something stupid.)

"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.

"Admin" wrote:
He is young. He will learn.

lol... I'm not holding my breath.

"Admin" wrote:
(For the yankm that is a quote from 2Dtv... a sketch comic shpow where sven is always saying that about rooney... after he does something stupid.)

Ohh right, my friend Adil sent me episodes of that show on Youtube once I think... Actually now that I'm thinking about it I haven't checked my email in a while.

It just occurred to me... Is yank short for Yankee? as in New York Yankee? So is it offensive to you southerners?

(Need to know if its acceptable language...)

"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.

"Admin" wrote:
It just occurred to me... Is yank short for Yankee? as in New York Yankee? So is it offensive to you southerners?

(Need to know if its acceptable language...)

For some reason foreigners think Yank or Yankee is some massive insult to us... we really think of it as a national nick-name... kind of like calling you guys "Brits." I have no idea why foreigners think it's an insult...

Technically though I'm a "Reb" or "Johnny" all americans are Yanks but it's regionally more specific to New England since they kept it during the civil war.

Good to have it cleared up. I just thought that now. I did not realise others had the same line of thought previously.

So what is Reb?

"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.

"Admin" wrote:
Good to have it cleared up. I just thought that now. I did not realise others had the same line of thought previously.

So what is Reb?

Rebel... it's a civil war thing

ok.

Gotta hit the pillow now.

I have been forcing myself out of habit to sleep too little. Seem to be doing it everynight. Its starting to give me headaches... and affecting my ability to think latterally. So time to count the cows jumping over the fence.

Laters.

"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.

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But the idea isn't some sort of reasonable glimmer in a sea of psycho. Scheuer's respect for bin laden is itself looney, and fits perfectly into his looney fantasy of a "bloody minded war on Islam" which he desires so greatly.

It seems Vedeno just gravitates to sociopathic ideas - the coincidence of defending two obviously unbalanced individuals in the course of one week is a little eerie.

Back to the good ol' "lets type before i read mode" , are we? :roll:

I posted the article because im genuinely interested in what Americans think of Scheuer.

He does make some valid points - i.e they hate us for our policies , not our freedoms but also says things that would probably anger most Americans like Bin Laden should be respected.

Regarding Bin Laden himself , there was a chance he could have been a bit of a hero in the Islamic world but he threw it away.

He does get his support from people who hate US policies and it is these policies the Bin Laden always mentions to try to prove to the Muslim world that he's the good guy , that he's fighting the evil Yanks.

"Vedeno" wrote:

Back to the good ol' "lets type before i read mode" , are we? :roll:

That's rather idiotic given the fact if you had read his book (like me) before you typed you might not find yourself agreeing with a guy who wants to wage a bloody minded war against all Muslims.

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I posted the article because im genuinely interested in what Americans think of Scheuer.

No you didn't, that's a bold faced lie and you know it.

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He does make some valid points - i.e they hate us for our policies , not our freedoms but also says things that would probably anger most Americans like Bin Laden should be respected.

He didn't raise any valid points. He ranted about how we should show bin Laden some respect because he fights without any principles whatsoever, again, had you read the book you would know that.

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Regarding Bin Laden himself , there was a chance he could have been a bit of a hero in the Islamic world but he threw it away.

He does get his support from people who hate US policies and it is these policies the Bin Laden always mentions to try to prove to the Muslim world that he's the good guy , that he's fighting the evil Yanks.

Who are you kidding? Bin Laden [b]is[/b] a hero throughout most of the Muslim world, with favorable polls as high as [url= percent in Morocco, 35 percent in Indonesia and over 50 percent in Pakistan, Jordan[/url], and [url= Arabia[/url]. His approval rating is higher than [i]Derek Jeter[/i].

lol ya know for somebody who falls back on "read a book" as often as you do when pushed into a corner you don't seem to do much reading. Quoting authors of books you've never read and making up stuff one page opinion polls quickly dispell. It's rather incredible

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That's rather idiotic given the fact if you had read his book (like me) before you typed you might not find yourself agreeing with a guy who wants to wage a bloody minded war against all Muslims.

I guess i have to repeat what i just said to you: Back to the good ol' "lets type before i read mode" , are we? :roll:

Before replying - take your time. Read through previous answers. Its not a competition , just take your time.

I know his views on Muslims - ive heard him speak a few times, if you took the time to read previous answers , you would have known that.
Like i said , he makes good points (hatred of policies not freedoms) and not so good points (Americans should respect Bin Laden).

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No you didn't, that's a bold faced lie and you know it.

Lol

Thats why in my original post , i said :

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ive heard him speak and read a bit about him - i wonder how the Yanks feel about him?

Your really are an idiot , arent ya?
Like i said before , dont take this forum as a competition where you have to reply staright away before reading or thinking. It would save you and everyone else time.

Take your time , read through replies - then answer,

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He didn't raise any valid points. He ranted about how we should show bin Laden some respect because he fights without any principles whatsoever, again, had you read the book you would know that.

The point of "theyre attacking us for our policies , not our freedoms" is a very good point and i think most Muslims would agree with that point.

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Who are you kidding? Bin Laden is a hero throughout most of the Muslim world, with favorable polls as high as 25 percent in Morocco, 35 percent in Indonesia and over 50 percent in Pakistan, Jordan, and Saudi Arabia. His approval rating is higher than Derek Jeter.

Ive had to travel to quite a few Muslim countries. The general impression i get is most people think he's making the situation worse.

One of my friends came out with this rap not so long ago.

THIS IS SUPPOSE TO BE A DEMOCRACY,
BUT PEOPLE LIKE THE BNP WONT EVEN LET ME WALK DOWN THE STREET,
POLICE ALWAYS HASSLENGING ME,
WHY????????
IS IT COZ I WEAR FUBU JEANS AND A CAP ON BACKWARDS,
NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ITS COZ I MIGHT PUT ON A TURBAN, GROW A BIG BEARD,
AND WEAR SHALWAR KAMEEZ LIKE THE MUJAHIDEEN,
I AINT FREE!!!!!!!!!
ALL THE THINGS I SEE ON TV,
NOT SO LONG AGO TWO PLANES FELL INTO TWO BUILDINGS AND ITS INSTANTLY ISLAM’S NAME TO BLAME,
YOU SAY ITS BIN LADEN WHO DID IT,
BUT SHOW ME SOME PROOF,
SHOW ME SOME PROOF,
JUST SHOW ME SOME PROOF,
AND I’L HATE HIM TOO, MAYBE EVEN MORE THAN YOU,
BUT I DOUBTH THAT WILL HAPPEN,
COZ THE NEWS COMING FROM THE BBC AND CNN SEEMS FULL OF LIES,
I AINT GONNA BELIEVE NON OF THIS HYPE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Islam is the Key to paradise but without practice it won't open the gates.

loool - mashaALLAH.

Ya ALLAH Madad.
Haq Chaar Yaar

"Med" wrote:
loool - mashaALLAH.

Lol he went on a talent radio station and rapped it. he goes there were people there mc'ing garage music and singing and rapping like commercial stuff and went on with this political rap.

Its much longer than this, after he'd finished he goes there was an akward silence in the studio for about 5 minutes. he got the most people ringing up and bigging him up even the older generation were ringing up.

Islam is the Key to paradise but without practice it won't open the gates.

I think he is one of the actors in the Road to Guantanamo film.

"Beast" wrote:
I think he is one of the actors in the Road to Guantanamo film.

lol that bit of the film was well funny when he starts rapping to the guard... Lol

[size=9]I NEVER WORE IT BECAUSE OF THE TALIBAN, MOTHER. I LIKE THE [b]MODESTY[/b] AND [b]PROTECTION[/b] IT AFFORDS ME FROM THE EYES OF MEN.[/size] [url=, X-Men[/url]

"*DUST*" wrote:
"Beast" wrote:
I think he is one of the actors in the Road to Guantanamo film.

lol that bit of the film was well funny when he starts rapping to the guard... Lol

What did the guard say?

My mates 2 of them are really good rappers although theyve stopped it now coz theyve gone shareef. But back in the days they use to rap in college and on the streets and use to attract very large crowds.

I respect their lyrics coz they'd rap about Islam and what is going on in the world and it made sense.
Sometimes they would rap in class at college and the whole class would go crazy.

I see other Tupac wannabees who rap about money, women and cars and i just think you sound like an idiot, who wants to hear about that. people are more concerned with whats happening around them so its important they rap about reality, rather than fantasy.

Islam is the Key to paradise but without practice it won't open the gates.