Owen Bowcott
Monday February 27, 2006
The Guardian
Muslims who wish to live under a system of sharia law should leave Britain, the chairman of the Commission for Racial Equality suggested yesterday.
Speaking in the wake of demonstrations against Danish cartoons depicting the prophet Muhammad, Sir Trevor Phillips said those living in the UK had to accept that British values include a commitment to freedom of speech, even if that means offending people.
"What some minorities have to accept is that there are certain central things we all agree about, which are about the way we treat each other - that we have an attachment to democracy, that we sort things out by voting not by violence and intimidation, that we tolerate things that we don't like," he told ITV1's Jonathan Dimbleby programme. "Short of people menacing and threatening each other, we have freedom of expression. We allow people to offend each other."
Sir Trevor - who stirred controversy with his attacks on multi-culturalism and calls on ethnic minorities to integrate - said a consequence of freedom of speech was that non-Muslims must accept imams' right to denounce homosexuality.
He rejected the idea that British Muslims should be allowed to live under sharia law in their communities. "I don't think that's conceivable," he said. "We have one set of laws ... and that's the end of the story. If you want to have laws decided in another way, you have to live somewhere else." Sir Trevor said he wanted to promote a sense of "Britishness" in the UK. "One point of Britishness is that people can say what they like about the way we should live, however absurd, however unpopular it is," he said.
[url=http://www.guardian.co.uk/religion/Story/0,,1718579,00.html]TheGuardian[...
I dont understand that weirdo.....no religion allows offence to its God or Prophets, what a clown. To talk against offending someones faith suddenly means we are asking them to implement Shariah Law :? I dont get it...
Should people who want holocaust denial laws enacted leave as well?
That's one less Tory MP.
what the guy is saying ...some Muslims according to a survey want Shariah Law implemente din the UK or in their area in the UK where there ar ea majority of Muslims!!!!!
and the guy is right, this is a non Muslim land, where Muslims only make up 5%....so you can demand shariah law here....
its a few al muhajiloonies who demand shariah law in this country.... but anyone who knows Islam understands that this is WRONG!
implement shariah law in Muslim lands.... in the Uk stick to dawah...
I say to my fellow Al-Mujaharoun brother’s if they want Shariah then they should respect these laws first.
And besides I’m in favour of Shariah, abolishment of Riba – to name a few.
Here an interesting Survey:
[color=red][b]Results of the Capital Punishment UK 2005 on line capital punishment survey:[/b][/color]
http://www.richard.clark32.btinternet.co.uk/results.html
:shock:
so muslims shud accept free speech
but those who excercise free speech and say that they want a shariah law implemented shud leave UK?
what a weirdo :roll:
BTW if the goverment is so big on free speech then how come that guy who said FA was fined? :shock:
Can you give me an example?
I agree with Sir Trevor. People who want shariah law and do not want democracy should move. And the law against depicting Mohammed is a Muslim law, not supported by western law. It is to protect from idolatry. The west has a long history of making light of God and prophets. Perhaps even a few Arab jokes feature Allah, even if they do not have their own Monty Python.
[size=9]Whatever you do, know that I will always love you. Or else.[/size]
Well the example that comes to mind is when they were discussing the Danish cartoons there was a Christain there who lead a protest against a "Jerry Springer Show" that was offensive to Christians.
Surely if somethin as such was drawn regarding your religion you would be angry?
I think its common if someone has a link with their religion that they feel anger towards those who do such things and want somethin done about it.
To be honest i dont know much about other religions but i would expect that faith is a very big thing in any religion not somethin that can be mocked in the name of "freedom of speech"
Also, I dont think there is a holocaust denial law in this country, not sure. This guy is an idiot to bring up the issue of the cartoons into this, becuz they were not published in the UK to my knowledge.
But western european countries which promote freedom of speech, yet have a law against anyone denyin the holocaust, anyone who does so will be imprisoned, then what kinda freedom of speech is that??
That is the bigger issue, yet no big media publications are picking up on it, or rather are ignorant towards it.
In these countries, its ok, and the rulers of the country will defend you for making a mockery of religious figures, yet if you jus say, that the holocaust didnt take place, then your in trouble.
Also, why do so many people go around denying the Holocaust? I dunt understand, is there definative proof for or against it? I always thought, until recently that it was something which every1 knew had taken place.
Mayb 100man can answer that?
_____________- -SupeRazor- -_______________
Some ppl make their goals the stars.
They may live n die n never reach the stars,
but in the darkness of the night, those stars will guide them to their destination.
Becuz they made them in their eyesight
If you compare your cause to theirs it is lost and I say rightly.
Absolutely not and it happens all the time. I can understand upset at the offensive connotations of the only two passably offensive cartoons, but not the scale of indignation. It is puffed up rubbish.
Faith can be mocked, absolutely.
Razor, antisemites deny the holocaust and in Arab and Muslim states much capital has been made of it, because as well as many there who are civil and upright they are largely ignorant, racist, chauvinistic nationalists.
[size=9] 100man's Edit: removed the glaring apostrophe from "their's".[/size]
[size=9]Whatever you do, know that I will always love you. Or else.[/size]
How so?
Causing offense to the Holy Prophet
is not a small matter to the Muslims. It may be normal for some people to mock others religion because they dont have faith in their own but thats no excuse to hide behind a pathetic line "its freedom of speech"...
Those cartoons were an act beyond stupidity.
I agree with Razor, its double standards to say its ok to publish the cartoons of the Holy Prophet
yet denying the holocaust is against freedom of speech......these people are down right ignorant and stupid becuase they say somethin is in the name of freedom of speech yet another claim cannot be uttered because it doesnt fall under "freedom of speech"
Slow down there, calling them antisemites then completely generalising a whole nation.
Neway, there was the british guy who got 1 years prison for denyin the holocaust years ago, wat kinda rubbish is that, jus for denying something, which obviously there is no real hard proof to.
cant remember the guys name, but he said, you can lock me up, but you'll never shut me up. Basically he was threatening to keep yapping bout it.
Also with the Irani Geezer denying it every other day, it kinda makes you think that the jews just lied the whole thing up so they could justify stealing land off palestinians to live on.
Those are Ahmednajads words, not mine by the way.
Wat ya think 100man
_____________- -SupeRazor- -_______________
Some ppl make their goals the stars.
They may live n die n never reach the stars,
but in the darkness of the night, those stars will guide them to their destination.
Becuz they made them in their eyesight
erm... how do I put it politely?
I do not believe you...
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
The point is they lost their attempt to stop a show that ridiculed Christian and Jewish beliefs, here in the UK, and only that small group cared, and they are a bunch of timewasters, albeit at least they are not supported by malevolent factions.
Maybe you have a real example?
[size=9]Whatever you do, know that I will always love you. Or else.[/size]
You are not thinking. This conversation is in three threads and you are not addressing views I have stated on the matter, just expressing glib outrage like khan does.
[size=9]Whatever you do, know that I will always love you. Or else.[/size]
What a ridiculous thing to say. Have you never seen cartoons ridiculing Moses?
Angry. Not my thing. Certainly not my religion.
[size=9]Whatever you do, know that I will always love you. Or else.[/size]
erm... no. I would not pander to such publications.
Wait a minute.... I remember Sir trevor phillips saying last year that he wanted to deny parents access to their kids if they were not dsoing good at school or something?
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
So what your basically tryna say, if someone disrespects your religious beliefs, then jus overlook it?
Might be easy for someone with minimal faith or no respect for one own faith, but personally im passionate about my faith.
Even tho they lost their attempt to stop the show running, atleast they tried, not like other who wudda thought,
"you know wat, my job is more important to me then my faith forget it, im not gna defend christmas, i cnt bothered"
Muslims are naturally patient people, we are slanders and ridiculed in the media day in day out, n over look it. They call us terrorist, jihadist fundamentalist whateverists n we think, you know wat, lets be sensible about it.
But then, some things just overboil an already boiling pot, and it all goes haywire. Shame some deal with situations in an incorrect manner though.
_____________- -SupeRazor- -_______________
Some ppl make their goals the stars.
They may live n die n never reach the stars,
but in the darkness of the night, those stars will guide them to their destination.
Becuz they made them in their eyesight
Jokes about Moses and Jesus playing golf? Whatever. Some people do not like that and write to publishers and so on and that is the end of it because as you imply, if they do not want to see it they can buy other publications, watch other channels. What you are demanding is a special status for Islam.
[size=9]Whatever you do, know that I will always love you. Or else.[/size]
I am demanding an equal billing.
Where there are limits on ridicule. for all people by all people.
and again not heard those jokes. (Nor do I want to... so don't start ;))
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
So basically what your saying now is that the cat has got your tounge. And, you cant think of nething to say, cuz you yourself dunt beleve the holoucaust took place, and it was a complete over exageration, lies basically made up for movie scripts like schindlers list etc.
So Ahmednajad is tell the truth is he?
_____________- -SupeRazor- -_______________
Some ppl make their goals the stars.
They may live n die n never reach the stars,
but in the darkness of the night, those stars will guide them to their destination.
Becuz they made them in their eyesight
Yes.
Liar.
Because of my faith and who I am I will be dignified and people will be well treated.
You misunderstand. There is support for terrorism among many Muslims and that support is indeed expressed as subversion such as blaming your favourite enemy for 9/11 and alleging an imaginary persecution. There is no persecution. Many Muslims can reassure you of this.
[size=9]Whatever you do, know that I will always love you. Or else.[/size]
Full of it. A joke about the Buddha? You fragile flower you.
[size=9]Whatever you do, know that I will always love you. Or else.[/size]
You have come to that conclusion without my help. You do not understand how demented you seem to me.
[size=9]Whatever you do, know that I will always love you. Or else.[/size]
I do not see the need to insult.
Nor do I go about insulting other religions, or the people who follow them.
(and No, I cannot recall any jokes about Buddha either.)
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
I am surprised how easy it is for people to mock others beliefs, but if they dont seem to be too bothered bout their own what can u expect i guess? but it would be out of courteousy to not act like idiots and deliberately anger those who do care about their God/Prophets (as) respect.
Admin, I call your argument a load of cobblers and you come back at my being offensive? You evade all substance, this is useless.
Angel, your argument seems to suggest your mind is made up, the Jews and the Christians make the law and do not care if their religions are mocked. Angel, your entire faith is built on the premise that Jews and Christians went astray. Don't ask for immunity.
[size=9]Whatever you do, know that I will always love you. Or else.[/size]
???
Is it just to me that you are not making sense? which argument is cobblers, and what is offensive? (I have not denied the holocaust, avoided calling anyone a liar, and have not patronised anyone..)
believe someone is wrong, and insulting are two diferent things.
I accept that nonmuslims will not find Islam palatable. We even discussed that on anothewr topic previously where i pushed the position that non-muslims will never be able to accepts or understand certain parts of Islam.
I am asking that ridicule should be limited.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
I've no idea. I hope you read carefully if you're going to reply like that.
Which is a special status.
[size=9]Whatever you do, know that I will always love you. Or else.[/size]
I am sorry if you read that strongly, but the part refering to me in your previous post made absolutely no sense to me.
It is only a special status if granted to one group. If granted to everyone, its not 'special' but general!
and to the deleted bit, We ask for equality! Afterall even the police must not execute innocent people... even if they feel rage.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
You do not ask for equality. You ask that nobody can make an image of Mohammed or maybe you ask that nobody can legally make a cartoon of Mohammed.
You say it is an argument for equality under a protection you consider the same as might be offered against an allegation that the holocaust was a Jewish invention.
[size=9]Whatever you do, know that I will always love you. Or else.[/size]
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