Egyptian grand mufti says Muslims can convert
http://www.dailystar.com.lb/article....ticle_id=84053
CAIRO: Egypt's official religious adviser has ruled that Muslims are free to change their faith as it is a matter between an individual and God, in a move which could have far-reaching implications for the country's Christians. "The essential question before us is can a person who is Muslim choose a religion other than Islam? The answer is yes, they can," Grand Mufti Ali Gomaa said in a posting on a Washington Post-Newsweek forum picked up by the Egyptian press on Tuesday.
"The act of abandoning one's religion is a sin punishable by God on the Day of Judgment. If the case in question is one of merely rejecting one's faith, then there is no worldly punishment," he wrote.
In many Muslim societies, converts to other religions are considered apostates and can be subject to capital punishment.
Gomaa said that if the conversions undermine the "foundations of society" then it must be dealt with by the judicial system, without elaborating.
Attempts by Muslims in Egypt to convert to other religions have been hindered by the state's refusal to recognize the change in official documents and in some cases have led to arrests and imprisonment.
"Even though it is not a criminal offense in Egypt, they get detained under emergency laws or are put on trial for contempt of religion if they wish to convert," said Hossam Bahgat of the Egyptian Initiative for Personal Rights.
"This [ruling] is significant, especially coming from Gomaa," he added.
"Between 2004 and now there have been many court cases involving Christian converts to Islam that want to convert back to Christianity who are unable to do so," said Bahgat, who is involved with a case of 12 former Copts who converted to Islam and are now trying to revert.
A spokesman for Dar al- Iftaa, the body headed by Gomaa which is responsible for issuing religious opinions, maintained that the mufti's stance has not changed.
"The posting is consistent with the mufti's past fatwas," he told AFP. "Apostasy is only punishable when it is considered akin to subversion."
The issue of apostasy is a thorny one in the Islamic world, with one extremist interpretation declaring that apostates should be killed.
"The punishment for apostasy is controversial," judge Ahmad Mekky, the deputy head of Egypt's Supreme Court, told AFP. "There is nothing in any Koranic text about this."
The case of the 12 Copts, whose request to revert was denied by a lower court in April, goes in front of the Supreme Court in September, and Bahgat said they will use Gomaa's posting to bolster their case.
"Gomaa is a civil servant, the top religious adviser of the state, and technically speaking the deputy justice minister," he said. "So his views on the matter carry authority."
Comment:
It seems the Government scholars are getting worse by the day, initially they justified non-Islamic ruling, then American bases in the Muslim lands and now this fatwa.
I wonder how they would feel if a family member became a Christian, Jew, Hindu etc?
And where is the evidence from the Quran and Sunnah to allow such actions?
Also will these apostates be accounted by Allah on the day of judgement or will they be judged based upon how much of Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism they followed?
Can people leave Islam and become atheists or satanists?
And can Muslims especially women marry these non-Muslims?
Super. Now if we can just get Egyptian Muslim men to stop kidnapping Coptic Christian girls we might be on something akin to a level playing field. :roll:
Aside from Showkat's view (which you can also no doubt find posted on that Hizb ut-Tahrir forum in his signature) being despicable, namely that people who convert are liable for capital punishment or incarceration simply because he would be disappointed if it happened in his family; it seems that the mufti is not willing to stand by the more tolerant remarks attributed to him.
[size=10]The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.[/size]
[size=9]Bertrand Russell (1872 - 1970)[/size]
A very simple rule for establishing if a principle is fair: may other people take it on?
It would not bother me at all if Hindu people started observing kashrut, thus it is not unfair for Jews to keep kosher. It would not bother me if Buddhists started observing Shabbat, thus it is not unfair for Jews to keep Shabbat. It would not be unfair for Egypt to imprison thieves, killers and rapists, thus it is not unfair for the UK to imprison thieves, killers and rapists. It would be deeply offensive if the UK started imprisoning or executing Jewish or Muslim converts, thus it is deeply offensive for Egypt to imprison or execute Christian converts. Very straightforward. Fair practise knows no boundaries.
[size=10]The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.[/size]
[size=9]Bertrand Russell (1872 - 1970)[/size]
I would want to behead the family member. :roll:
Don't just do something! Stand there.
Some interesting views.
There are lots of Islamic issues to tak about and which the Ummah needs guidence on and thats why this discussion by the Sheikh seems very strange.
[url]www.7cgen.com[/url], the place to be
It must annoy you when Showkat ignores your provocations.
As for the statement by the Mufti. In an ISLAMIC country, or so called, Muslims should be ruled by Quran and Sunnah. Christians should have their own law and courts and so on. The statement has no quotes and reasoning within it. So a whole speech would be nice and if that is the whole speech then questions must be raised to his scholarship of Islam.
He who sacrifices his conscience to ambition, burns a picture to obtain the ashes!
The Muslim is a brother of a Muslim and our relationship must be based on warmth, love and affection for each other. We must also respect each others opinions as long as it is based upon Islam.
I agree with your second comment, we must not accept opinions which contradict Islamic texts because doing so will lead to the Quran being neglected as a source of Islamic laws and rulings.
[url]www.7cgen.com[/url], the place to be
Actually Egypt is an Arab Nationalist nation. Besides, in the [i]Modern World[/i] we have international standards for good governance that have done away with the acceptance of old world imperialism. The kind of Islamic law that micromanages freedom of conscience and maliciously paternalises religious minorities is as antiquated as European Colonialism.
Adapt.
Erm, i can't think of many examples around the world of 'good governance'. corruption is rife everywhere, its just more noticeable in some countries more than others. Civil liberties are curbed in a variety of ways, Western countries are just more skillful at hiding there agents of social control.
Also, there are precisely NO countries anywhere that can be called 'Islamic'. There are plenty of 'Muslim-majority' countries, most of whom are governed by dictatorships or practical-dictatorships (including Egypt).
And 'imperialism' and 'colonialism' still exists, under different guises. many countries have to pay a HUGE amount of their GDP and wealth from resources to Western countries in loan-repayments at EXTORTIANATE rates of interest. These countries are only 'independant' of the West in name
I recommend a documentarty called 'The Yes Men' which explains how the current situation of factories/sweatshops around the 'developing-world' is a lot more profitable to American companies than slavery would be.
Don't just do something! Stand there.
Adapt? Conform.
Your talk about international standards is as deluded as the modern world you speak of without colonialism.
What? You have to have bases in a nation to control its natural resources? An army is not needed to control a nation today, just a threat of one and the IMF to subdue and extort.
I, for one, will be the last to defend the judicial system of Egypt. The point I was trying to make was there should be Sharia Law for Muslims in Muslims countries and the Law of the Torah/Bible for Jews/Christians in Muslims countries.
He who sacrifices his conscience to ambition, burns a picture to obtain the ashes!
Why? Isnt Sharia Law not good enough for non-muslims?
There will never be Shariah Law in any country as its not "profitable" for them. Greed is a terrible thing.
Back in BLACK
[size=18]Violence won't work: how author of 'jihadists' bible' stirred up a storm[/size]
[b]comment:[/b] what exactly is happening in Egypt at the moment. Before long they'll be legalising gay sex and building super casino!
Don't just do something! Stand there.
There's nothing akin to legalising gay sex and gambling in what he said.
Fourth para:
That is not the same as the opening para's suggestion that this is a "recantation that undermines the Muslim theological basis for violent jihad."
i merely meant that in a matter of days there have been two radical U-turns supposedly coming more 'liberal', if the trend were to continue at such a rate, before long it would lead to more freedom in the country (ie legalising haram things)
Don't just do something! Stand there.
Ya'qub,
Are you suggesting that the Muslim Brotherhood, or the alliance of Wahhabis and the Sauds in armed jihad and dawah is really a vital aspect of Islam that cannot authentically be rebuked? My understanding is that Sharif is possibly disillusioned at and correcting an abuse of your religion by autocrats and crazed fanatics. Please forgive me if this is not so.
[size=10]The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.[/size]
[size=9]Bertrand Russell (1872 - 1970)[/size]
i wasn't passing judgement on whether he was right before, right now, or not right at all.
i was just pointing out the coincidence of the Grand Mufti's comments 2/3 days ago and now this. both moves good easily be seen as big steps towards 'liberalism', and they both took place a few miles from each other (the prison is directly linked with al-Azhar).
since egypt is not governed by shariah, it seems inevitable that things that are banned in Islam but are accepted (encouraged?) in the Western world will eventually be allowed too. That is, if Mubarak stays in charge.
Don't just do something! Stand there.
Neither is a move that promotes corruption.
The shaykh has denied the first, but in any event these developments if true would engender compassion and peace respectively.
Something that occurred to me also when you lightheartedly asked about rain being described as "new" in another thread, was that even the wisest and best intentioned words can be stripped of context and made foolish. (I know you were only semi-serious in that instance, and I don't consider you foolish, or extremist, or anything negative, ftr.)
[size=10]The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.[/size]
[size=9]Bertrand Russell (1872 - 1970)[/size]
to be honest, i wasn't asking about rain light-heartedly, i was genuinely puzzled. and i will ask a scholar insha'Allah.
but personally, i think governments should be completely secularised unless the governor himself/herself is a proper, practising, honest, selfless Muslim. Unfortunately all the people who get close to power are greedy, malicious and just want success in this Dunya. When they use religion (any religion) to justify their selfish actions i gets very sticky indeed.
BTW 'secularised' does not mean 'against religion'. it means 'separated from religion'. i find it horrible that all over the middle east and other Muslim-majority countries, governments control the mosques and give funding to scholars with particular viewpoints or agendas.
at least in the Britain imams/sheikhs are free to say want they want without fear of being reprimanded (although the government would dearly like this to change).
Don't just do something! Stand there.
Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world. In America too it is spreading very fast. I have read recently that Allah is making a lot of people in Texas to become Muslims.
In America thousands of people are converting to Islam. This must be very worring to the Great Satan.
No wonder the Devil tried everything against Allah. But Allah is the most powerful. Satan can never defeat God.
Allah has promised in the Quran, He will make Islam prevail over all other religions no matter how much Kaafirs hate this happening. Allah's will is always fulfilled.
Once Texas converts, whole of America will convert inshallah.
Ayatollah rightly named America as "Great Satan".
www.presstv.ir
That would certainly be one great achievement :roll:, you seem to contain quite an unrealistic, overally paranoid and optimistic personality. You need to calm down, try taking a deep breath, and you need a psychiatrist.
"Purity is half of faith.......Prayer is the light...patience is illumination; and the Quran is an argument for or against you. Everyone starts his day and is a vendor of his soul, either freeing it or bringing about its ruin." Muslim