[size=18]Israeli guilty of shooting Briton[/size][size=13]
A former Israeli soldier has been found guilty of the manslaughter of British student Tom Hurndall in the Gaza Strip.
Ex-sergeant Wahid Taysir was convicted at a military court in Ashkelon for the shooting of Mr Hurndall in April 2003.Mr Hurndall, 22, was involved in protests against the Israeli military in the Palestinian town of Rafah. He died nine months after the shooting.
His father, Anthony, welcomed the guilty verdict, but he said the Israeli army acted with impunity too often.
The defendant was led out of the court in handcuffs and tried to attack a number of photographers and cameramen filming him. [/size]
[url=http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/4625355.stm]BBC[/url]
Why manslaughter? its abit lame considering he purposefully chose to shoot a civillian.
Guess we should be greatful that he was actually convicted though.
What would have been the chances if the victim was a palestinian?
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
Whats happening there is awful.
We should all pray for them and do something by uniting and maybe donating when we can.
"Purity is half of faith.......Prayer is the light...patience is illumination; and the Quran is an argument for or against you. Everyone starts his day and is a vendor of his soul, either freeing it or bringing about its ruin." Muslim
[url=http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/4669461.stm]BBC[/url]
Tom Hurndall. Very sad. Wahid Taysir is a Bedouin Israeli soldier which the BBC is right not to mention but I will. Sorry day for the IDF. Manslaughter because Taysir was in a gunfight and they couldn't know if it was his intention to kill an innocent, but I believe his story was shaky. Tom Hurndall's family celebrating the judgement issued unfortunate statements that did not acknowledge it as a success for Israeli justice, so I will.
If you take Islamic Brother's suggestion up be careful where it goes.
Admin, most of the Palestinians in the area were fighting at the time, that's the point. That was the scenario in which Taysir was pointing and shooting at all and sundry, and he tried to argue he couldn't see what Hurndall was doing. Maybe he couldn't, but Hurndall was a non-combatant. It's not a clean-cut situation but the IDF mustn't justify mistakes, misjudgements or malice whatever the story. That's why it's a good judgement. You know my take on Hurndall, that he absolutely shouldn't have been there, which I'm mentioning again for the record.
Irfan,
Regarding the fence:
Unfortunate but tough. Good move Israel. It isn't a landgrab - they're mostly a bunch of wire and checkpoints - and it isn't a giveaway and there are fences like it in conflict zones throughout the world including India/Pakistan, Saudi/Yemen, Botswana/Zimbabwe, North Korea/South Korea and to keep out immigrants in Dutch ports and the intercontinental borders of Spain/Morocco and USA/Mexico and numerous borders all over the world. These ones will save lives on both sides.
It's a sad fact that the Israelis are using Arabs to do their dirty work for them.
The people laying the wall are often Arabs too.
Palestinian suicide bombers may not be able to get through to Israel because of the wall, but the walls aren't high enough to prevent Israeli helicopter gunships from bombing Palestinians.
irfan,
That's dumb for you. All Israelis perform army service, Arab or Jew.
As for your second point Israel is fighting terrorists, not Palestinians.
You're a ******** (my asterisks) to suggest otherwise as Hamas love to tell the Palestinians this.
Every day it's [url=http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull... same old same old[/url]. But I happen to believe Israel should fight the terrorists and pursue a more noble cause for peace and independence for the Palestinians, which is what Israel does.
Stone-throwing children shot in the head are terrorists, no?
With people like Sharon and Netenyahu at the helm they are definitely pursuing a more noble cause for peace and independence for the Palestinians.
1. Difficult question. If I was a soldier and kids started throwing stones with serious consequences, I like to think there would be an alternative to using my gun. But I don't know. Those kids are doing something very, very stupid, on instruction.
2. Sharon is not Netanyahu. How about Hamas pitching in.
Tom Hurndall was wearing a luminous vest. Very hard to spot against the camuflage/black the millitants wear.
Last week there was a kid shot who was supposed to have been throwing stones, but witneses state he was playing football.
The soldier was taken away for questioning as he had the option to use non lethal firepower, but CHOSE not to.
One thing is commands from above, another is the clture the soldiers are part of. Both need to be sorted.
PS I believe Sharon is a terrorist wo has blood on his hands from previous massacres. He is not a man of peace. However his hardline (extremist) credentials may allow him to keep some credibility as he removes some settlers.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
However you put it, my view on Tawsid is he was guilty as charged.
Regarding your PS I'm open to hearing your view on Sharon and being sensitive.
we've already been through this discussion.... :roll:
100 made it clear then that he has views on tom hurndall, the IDF, etc. which are different to those held by the rest of us, and he didnt seem to take in anything we sed either... so y bother? :?
[size=9]I NEVER WORE IT BECAUSE OF THE TALIBAN, MOTHER. I LIKE THE [b]MODESTY[/b] AND [b]PROTECTION[/b] IT AFFORDS ME FROM THE EYES OF MEN.[/size] [url=http://www.adherents.com/lit/comics/Dust.html]Dust, X-Men[/url]
Aasiyah,
Nice contribution. I'm very cynical about you now, all your remarks add up to a pattern of snideness.
Little Miss 'The Taliban - Were they really that bad?'. I doubt you speak for many.
She speaks for herself. Just as I do for myself, and you do for yourself.
Yes we have discussed Israel on the old forums very heatedly, but not on these.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
Sure, Admin. We speak for ourselves, right?
She spoke for 'the rest of us'.
True.
However I know some of your views regarding Israel, and they are fundamentally opposed to mine in such a manner we cannot possibly agree.
Now she has a point there is no point going through the motions of a ten page argument with heated expletives, and neither of our positions will change.
PS I do not generally defend others (they can do so themselves), but she was informing me so, so I am in this case.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
My gripe with her has been welling and I've pointed it out on two threads now. I'm not dragging you in, you're way more polite.
100,
i've made it clear on the Taliban thread that i do not think they were perfect in any way, its just that i recently began to doubt the wholly negative view i held of them (which is most prominent in our society). i asked an open question and wanted to see people's responses; labelling me like that is narrow-minded and unwarranted. :?
admittedly my last post in this thread was somewhat cynical, but i spoke in terms of exactly what i had found in the past when we discussed the same topic - that u were not open to the views held by Dave, myself, and other members who participated in that thread. ofcourse u have every right to express your opinion and i respect that, but i also dont c the point in re-doing this entire discussion when we seem to have decided our respective stance on the issue.
i'm sorry to hear u have a "gripe" with me... i certainly dont feel the same way about this. btw, when have i ever been impolite to u (or less polite than admin as ur suggesting)?
[size=9]I NEVER WORE IT BECAUSE OF THE TALIBAN, MOTHER. I LIKE THE [b]MODESTY[/b] AND [b]PROTECTION[/b] IT AFFORDS ME FROM THE EYES OF MEN.[/size] [url=http://www.adherents.com/lit/comics/Dust.html]Dust, X-Men[/url]
One thing that makes me cynical, only inasmuch as you're here to rally people and not to chat, is you said: 'I hope everyone who voted (against the Taliban) read (Mullah Omar's) article first. It doesn't look like it.' But you also claim you're not attached. I've raised other objections on that thread. I'm not suggesting you're anything other than a girl on the web, either, ftr.
The other thing is you never converse with me from a position of not having assumptions. Invariably the first I see of you is in solidarity, as a put-down, against a point I've been discussing logically with others. On their own the comments aren't so offensive, and I could take them all on board. Together, well, a pattern of snideness. Admin isn't polite enough to actually be straight-up rude when I warrant it, which I consider most polite because it's honest and then you're not looking for back alleys, but he is polite enough not to play little smear games with the forum as a whole regarding my remarks, or anyone's for that matter, which I think you have done for a while. So like I said I'm upset with you.
o-k. :?
firstly, how ironic!! u accused me of putting words into ur mouth, and now have done the exact same thing! the brackets u inserted whilst quoting me create a pic of how u read that post, not what i meant by it. stop misconstruing my comments!
100, i dunno wot ur on about in ur second paragraph... it seems that ur suggesting my posts form some kinda 'web of deceit' or summat, and that admin being rude somehow makes him politer?! plz clarify...
no other member has noted my posts as being snidy (maybe omrow would agree with that coz he seems to have some childish vendetta against me :roll:). i do not hold anyone here in contempt or think my views are superior, so saying i present a "pattern of snideness" is unfair to say the least. it seems to me that u are the one making assumptions, as u sed urself that my posts "together" form wotever u think of them. believe it or not, for me posting is not like a chess game as ur suggesting - i dont know 5 posts before everyone else, wot i'm gonna write in reply. :roll:
before posting my last msg, i had a look at the Israel thread in the old forum - and lol, wadya know, on there too u have accused me of "dishonesty". so u see, nothing has changed and thats y i wanted to drop this topic.
[size=9]I NEVER WORE IT BECAUSE OF THE TALIBAN, MOTHER. I LIKE THE [b]MODESTY[/b] AND [b]PROTECTION[/b] IT AFFORDS ME FROM THE EYES OF MEN.[/size] [url=http://www.adherents.com/lit/comics/Dust.html]Dust, X-Men[/url]
I'm pointing out something that you've been doing, with me. Consider whether your posts contain an ad hominem, assert no position and stand against me. If you see that isn't the case fine, if you see it is please notice. Look, I can be really patronising and arrogant, see. When I do it call me on it. There's no problem for me with acknowledging, oh yeah, I do get offensive around xyz. Best tell them I've noticed or it's like I'm content with prejudice.
As for that first paragraph, I'm pointing out the contradiction. You said you weren't attached to a position but you took the voting to mean people might not be reading what the Taliban has to say.
We weren't talking about Israel at all, Aasiyeh, you and I, so mentioning what came up - your dishonesty as I called it - the last time you and I spoke about it, specifically doesn't justify your earlier lame remark about me. I remain cynical.
AAAANYWAY really, there were some nice discussions taking place and I had said to Admin if he ever wants to talk about Sharon, say on a thread like this, I'm happy to. (If you're not keep it to yourself, same as I'm not qualified about the background to Srebrenica so I'm not commenting even though I can see in the end disgusting rage and wholesale murder was visited on that community. There are many views I do and don't express that we'll never agree on. "What's the point?" is a vile argument I know well in many guises, and it serves to unify a community in frustration.) Frankly you and I have no other rapport so, no love lost.
"content with prejudice"? u are being unnecessarily defensive 100. i have nothing against u as a person - i just happen to disagree with some of ur arguments, which i have made clear in my posts. so no, i dont c how my posts are ad hominem. if the same views u hold happened to be expressed by any other member, i would address them in exactly the same manner.
u are assuming things based on wot u percieved to be my stance, not on wot i actually wrote. i went on to say in that post: "Can those of you who voted please leave a comment, and those of u who havent read the stuff, feel free to comment but please dont vote until you've read the material provided" specifically because i wanted to see people's reaction to that particular article - the poll question started with "having read the stuff on the link..."
[size=9]I NEVER WORE IT BECAUSE OF THE TALIBAN, MOTHER. I LIKE THE [b]MODESTY[/b] AND [b]PROTECTION[/b] IT AFFORDS ME FROM THE EYES OF MEN.[/size] [url=http://www.adherents.com/lit/comics/Dust.html]Dust, X-Men[/url]
OK, I don't know your motives with the poll. Sorry for the 'Little Miss' remark.
As for your other point, that you are merely stating your view as against mine, I'm being descriptive, not defensive. Because there is no meat in your post to get defensive about it's a straight-up smear, there's nothing else to it. I used to see a lot of people making that 'why bother' point but throwing in a few Qu'ranic verses about the kafir just to be certain. Possibly you're not doing that, but it amounts to the same thing. It's like I say, I've noticed a consistent pattern in your posts to me, or about me in this case. I know where I stand on that.
btw the point, and I guess the point of any forum, is to learn about the positions people take and discuss the future. The point isn't to win everything. Therefore you shouldn't worry I wasn't convinced last time. It's such a rubbish argument how could I not object?
Ofcourse if there was no diversity of opinions on this forum, there would be no debate and discussion. so as i said previously, i respect ur right to express whatever view u want, and i am not here to convince anyone.
if a new member wanted to discuss Israel then i would participate, as a fresh point of view will b added to the discussion.
[size=9]I NEVER WORE IT BECAUSE OF THE TALIBAN, MOTHER. I LIKE THE [b]MODESTY[/b] AND [b]PROTECTION[/b] IT AFFORDS ME FROM THE EYES OF MEN.[/size] [url=http://www.adherents.com/lit/comics/Dust.html]Dust, X-Men[/url]
Cool. I've said my piece. If there's anything nagging please feel free.
So many palestinians are being killed everyday, tanks come everyday and sometimes innocent children die all the time, There are always snipers shooting.
I had a look at a documentry made that was on Islam Channel, it was awful.
Although there are sucide bombers, they are trying to defend themselves and
are desperate. If the Israelis stop coming where the palestinians live and killing them and give them more room and let them also visit Jerusalem then there will bve no more sucide bombers around.
That is what saladin did, after he took Jerusalem back, he let christians visit and the same before, he also let Jews stay there and visit and be free, but the Israeli Zionist have no peace in their minds.
"Purity is half of faith.......Prayer is the light...patience is illumination; and the Quran is an argument for or against you. Everyone starts his day and is a vendor of his soul, either freeing it or bringing about its ruin." Muslim
and this is what they do to so-called terrorists and most of them are innocent.
http://www.palestinechronicle.com/story.php?sid=20050705070753220
"Purity is half of faith.......Prayer is the light...patience is illumination; and the Quran is an argument for or against you. Everyone starts his day and is a vendor of his soul, either freeing it or bringing about its ruin." Muslim
Eventhough I completely condemn what 'al-qaeeda' do, lets see if '100' condemns terrorism that the Israelis do.
I also think that the sucide bombers shouldn't target children and I condemn that, does '100' condemn this? I wonder.....
"Purity is half of faith.......Prayer is the light...patience is illumination; and the Quran is an argument for or against you. Everyone starts his day and is a vendor of his soul, either freeing it or bringing about its ruin." Muslim
Suicide bombers shouldn't target anyone. Full stop.
There is no-one out there who deserves to be killed for no reason.
These bombers are clearly deluded-there is no way they will enter the gardens of paradise.
They are not fighting in the way of Allah and Islam. They are going against the teachings of our peaceful and tranqiul religion.
Why is this concept so hard for everyone to grasp... especially the non-muslims?
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