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_____________- -SupeRazor- -_______________
Some ppl make their goals the stars.
They may live n die n never reach the stars,
but in the darkness of the night, those stars will guide them to their destination.
Becuz they made them in their eyesight
Salaam
Back to the topic guys…who cares how tolerant I am or not…obviously if I was infallible and 101% tolerant at all times I’d be a Sufi…but at the moment I’m just a wannabe.
…Anyway-Arrogance is the most dangerous, undercover sin which according to Imam Ghazali the people of knowledge are more likely to possess…
So arrogance is something we need to keep in check at all times…esp if your involved in Daw’ah work.
We need to ask ourselves at all times if we allow arrogance to enter ours heart look down upon those who don’t follow the deen as closely as we do….. Do we ever feel superior to those who may be “misguided”?
Do we love to slam hadith’s and Qur’anic verses into peoples' faces? Do we ever use Islam just to prove that we are right and others are wrong?
Daw’ ah should be done for the pleasure of Allah (swt) and not to make oneself appear better than others…
And we should bear in mind that obedience is a gift from Allah (swt)…it’s a tawfeeq (ability) given to us from above and if we look down at the faults of others Allah (swt) could take it away…
Apparently, Satan can approach a person by way of the faults of others. By criticizing someone else’s mistake, a person implies that he is free from the same.
For example…by pointing out that so and so does pray, fast, cover, give charity implies that we do all this…...(this is indirectly bigging oneself up)
Covering up the faults of others is not only part of the British culture….
Imam Shafi said “ Let not your tongue mention the shame of another,
For you yourself are covered in shame and all men have tongues.
If your eye falls upon the sins of your brother,
Shield them and say: “O my eye! All men have eyes!”
Wasalaam
We are human. We al have faults.
Before looking at someone elses, we should look at our own.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
Omrow... sometimes I wonder if you just talk for the exercise.
And this is coming from a guy that thinks Tigers need to be their own topic.
I was merely pointing out that teh story abt the angels who violated the woman are not islamic, they are jewish. Nothing to do with peoples views, it should be noted that a number of Islamic historians were in the habit of referring to or borrowing jewish/chiristian narrations when writing about historical events on which Quran and Ahadeeth remained silent, and it is established that this story is one such event.
No doubt it is present in the works of some muslim historians, but its base and foundation and source is purely jewish. The ulama have ruled that such a story does not fit with the character of angels and it is from the judaeo-christian theology that angels can fall away from their state of innocence. By us the angels are always obedient to ALLAH and cannot bu be obedient so this aspect of arrogance being present in the angels is even logically, objectively and theologically unsound.
I have said my bit, if others wish to believe in such fairy tales and its drivel that is their choice and they are welcome to it, I merely intended to bring the truth into manifestation to the falsehood may be dispelled.
Ya ALLAH Madad.
Haq Chaar Yaar
But the point is they weren't angels when they did this stuff. They were humans. And humans [i]are[/i] capable, unfortunately.
You are right Emperor
jewisn scripture are not necessarily wrong.
I would believe such a story to eb wrong. But not because it is of jewish origin.
those scripture are wrong when the contradict the Qur'an and sunnah. (or those bits were correct, but have been abbrogated by the qur'an).
I would take it as a story that anyone can do wrong if given the chance.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
yes humans are indeed capable, but it makes no sense even looking at it objectively. If these ''angels'' were turned to humans then their following behaviour was not anything to be shocked about nor was it a lesson to the angels because their nature was altered, they lost their nature of light and became mud in nature.
The story only hinges on the fact that the angels looked down on mankind, in islam this is an impossibility. It is not in their nature to sin.
Ya ALLAH Madad.
Haq Chaar Yaar
Ahh the Nephilim
That's a weird (but interesting) story.
Just sorta happened upon it in Genesis one day - lol it's totally out of place though.
It's like:
God creates some stuff
makes some people
people mess up
GIANT MONSTERS WHO ARE HALF BREEDS OF PEOPLE AND ANGELS EAT HELPLESS VICTIMS
a big flood
some more stuff
lol and it's never referred to ever again
Yes true just cos its jewish doesnt mean it is wrong. Hence some ulama are of opinion that we may learn from jewish/christian stories which do NOT contradict Qurah and Sunnah. And infact this is an established practice among the research scholars.
But the point here is that this story is completely wrong and a baseless lie and fabrication, an act for the Children of Israel are notorious.
Ya ALLAH Madad.
Haq Chaar Yaar
Yousee, you say that without any proof.
As i said, I have issues with it aswell. (actually pretty similar to your issues...)
but I would not have the same verdict as you...
as your opinion so far, as quoted above is also baseless.
It is most likely a fabrication. But we should be careful in such issues.
Som scholars have used these stories, and have not found them to be wrong... maybe they knew more than us. maybe they were right. or maybe they were wrong.
and i will not respond to yur claim of notoriety. I do not knoe enough about that.
No doubt others would like to comment.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
Since when did
Baseless = lie ?
Gentleness and kindness were never a part of anything except that it made it beautiful, and harshness was never a part of anything except that it made it ugly.
Through cheating, stealing, and lying, one may get required results but finally one becomes
Sounds like you guys are attacking an interesting question.
Was the Qur'an written under the assumption that the audience already knew the biblical stories thus there was little need to reiterate?
Was it written to correct only those stories that were "corrupted?"
Or was it written exclusively to tell those stories which were true and correct them so they were no longer "corrupted?"
I suppose depending on how you answer that - it could be that stories in the bible but not in the Qur'an are either true, events that happened but the accounts are incorrect, or just flat out wrong.
And honestly is there anyway of knowing for sure the answer to the central question? You say the Qur'an was written by God, certainly he was familiar with the old stories. And you cannot really know his intentions unless he flat out tells you them.
Aaand where does he tell you them?
In revelations!
(no not the book, stuff that's revealed)
So logically it ought to follow that if the answer is meant to be known it should be written somewhere in your Qur'an.
a truth has a base. A lie has no base, it is concocted from thin air.
So this story being baseless, has no foundation, it is without any support, it has come about from the air, it is a lie. Pretty simple if you ask me.
Ya ALLAH Madad.
Haq Chaar Yaar
Well... the islamic position IMO is:
1. Allah gave revelations to prophets.
was the Final Prophet, and for all races.
2. Prophets were sent to all races from within themselves.
3. Jews were sent prophets, also from within their communities.
4. overtime some scriptures were altered by the clergy. (the masses did not have access to the books...)
5. Prophets were sent down to correct the faith...
6. Our Prophet
If a story is quoted in the qur'an, it is accepted. if a story is abbrogted in the qur'an, It is true, but no longer followed. if it is declared a lie, it is a lie.
Now on stories not mentioned in the qur'am, if they contrad ict the teachings of the qur'an, they are either wrong, or have been abbrogated. I it does nto contradict the qur'an, they MAY be true. I part or in whole.
None of these can not be used for a legal view. At the same time they should not be ignored.
However IMO their are a few things contradictory in the story... (angels having arrogance... that is against our view...)... does not mean it is totally fabricated. It may be so...
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
i dont get this argument
my sister heard a scholar narrate a story
Med said that the story is a load of crap according to his teachers
she said he's entitled to his views
Med considers the scholars that my sister respects as "ahle biddah"
they both think and act differently
SO WHAT? :roll:
what a pointless argument
I think you missed out, truth shall come and falsehood shall perish for falsehood by its very nature is doomed to perish.
A truth from an unknown base is also 'baseless'.
and a lie can be a twisting of a truth that has a base.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
so what if MED thinks its a lie
Med also thinks a LOT of things that most people disagree with
ppl are entitled to think what they want
but what is wrong is shoving your own views down others throat
Hye lilSis; that story could be fabricated.
we do not know...
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
maybe it is
one persons scholar says its true
another ones considers it a "lie"
i dont see the point of ordinary people argueing over it
personally I don't agree anything Med's teachers say cos his past threads have shown his teachers considers credible scholars as being "ahle biddah"
MuslimSisLilSis
Do not bring his teachers into it.
Most of their teachings are diferent from his sayings.
His faults are his. His teachers have diferent views. when he asks them on the issues, he finally admits his mistakes.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
and who told him what the ulema have said
did he figure it out himself? :roll:
who told him that them scholars he dissed were "ahle biddah"
did he figure that out himself? :roll:
Some Ulema probably said that they have no proof of its legitimacy...
and he probably ran with it.
THE Ulema did not 'say it'. SOME Ulema may have sad thing that he ran with to get to a conclusion.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
some said it, one said it, ten said, a million said it
this dont bother me
my point was
my sister follows scholars who Med disses as being "ahle biddah"
so obviously both of their stories, views etc will rarely match
but so what-they are both entitled to their views
the legitimacy of the story is a pointless argument
I aint getting into this Ahlul Bid'ah debate again, nice try MuslimSisLilSis.
And if you bother to readsome of my earlier posts you would see that I stated what I believed and that after that you can believe what you like. So implying that Im trying to shove my beliefs down peopls throats is beyond me as I have already stated that you can believe what you want.
Secondly, big deal if some1 mentions some story in a talk, merely mentioning something doesnt mean anything. If someone bothered to use their intellect and actually thought about what the story is saying, if they bothered to research its origin, if they bothered to compare it to Quran and Sunnah, as opposed to merely finding it written somewhere and thinking how good it would sound in a speech, then they would also find that the story cannot be relied upon nor does it teach anything.
The point of mentioning the story was in regards to arrogance. I say why should an alim of truth bother with dodgy stories from jewish scriptures when the Prophet of Truth, Nabi Muhammad salallahu alayhi wa sallam, has gifted His Ummah, with a wealth of advice in regards to arrogance?
I know of many ulama who are in the habit of embelisshing their bayaan with stories, which are either very captivating or very rare, the intention being to captivate the audience. And before any1 thinks I am referring to Ahlul Bid'ah, let me just say that some ulama of Ahlus Sunnah wal Jama\ah are also in the habit of putting in dodgy stories to try and increase their fame and to make their speeches captivating and imaginative. Point being, for me, the Ahadeeth Noble are enough.
Believe what you like, I aint shoving anything anywhere.
Ya ALLAH Madad.
Haq Chaar Yaar
i pointed out numerous time above that you are entitled to think what u what
NO WHERE did I say that ur shoving your views down people's throat
so put ur glasses on u wierdo :roll:
and btw-the opinion of those who follow those who diss credible scholars and have biddah phobia's mean nothing to me
so say what u want-nothing u say holds any weight to me
lol.
k
Ya ALLAH Madad.
Haq Chaar Yaar
wow ur getting soft
no "K, salaam" to me today?
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