but once theyre into Islam then they can only then try to understand the ways of the Beloved Nabi SAW.

the state the youth are in now, they wont understand the old ways very easily. were not sayin its ok to adopt the new ways over the old, but if its the only way to reach out....and its halaal then y not

I understand you bro, but the times we live in arent so simple to revert to old ways..........altho i too am a fan of the old way

i think i saod Old Ways a lil 2 much :roll:

i can understand why some scholars say women's voice is awrah. But surely mens voices can be attractive to women aswell? So how can you say it's ok for men to work on a radio show but not women?

Because in the history of Islam no scholar to our knowledge has declared mens voice as awrah. If that were the case it would further our cause to prevent women from the mosque because in certain salah the recitation is loud.

In short the question of mens voice being awrah in itself is not up for debate. What we can say men are FORBIDDEN to speak love-talk or flirtatiously with women. Even men must be straight in speech but women have to alter their voices as is established from certain Sahabiyat.

"yashmaki" wrote:

i can understand why some scholars say women's voice is awrah. But surely mens voices can be attractive to women aswell? So how can you say it's ok for men to work on a radio show but not women?

salaam

[b]
Evidence in Favor of Women's Speech[/b]

[u][b]From the Quran[/b][/u]

[b]A) Surah al-Qasas ayat 23-25[/b]

Wa lamma warada maa'a Madyana wajada alayhi ummat min an-nas yasquuna wa wajada min duni him imra'atyani tadhudan. Qala maa khatbukuma? Qalata laa nasqii hatta yusdi ar-ri'a wa abuna shaykh kabir. Fa saqaa la huma thumma tawallaa ila az-zilli fa qala Rabbi inni li maa anzalta ilayya min khayrin faqir. Fa ja'at hu ihda huma tamshi ala istihya. Qalat inna abi yad'uka li yajziyaka ajra maa saqayta la na...

And when he [Moses] came to the watering-place of Midian, he found at it a group of people taking water and he found as well as them two women holding back. He said, "What do you two have to say?" They said, "We cannot take water until the shepherds go away and our father is a very old man". So he took water for them two then he turned back to the shade and he said, "My Lord and Sustainer, surely I am one who needs what Thou mayest send to me of the good". Then one of the two (women) came towards him, walking shyly. She said, "My father invites you so that he may give you a wage for taking the water for us"...

[b]COMMENT: [/b]Here the future wife of the prophet Moses (alayhi salam) approaches him to speak with him even though they are not married yet. Surah an-Nisa ayah 26 says, "Allah clarifies for you, and guides you with, the sunnas of those who were before you". Unless abrogated by a clear statement elsewhere, the conduct of the past that Allah SWT cites as an example for us is still halal.
[b]
Surah an-Naml ayat 29-35[/b]

Qalat ya ayyuha al-mala'u inni ulqiya ilayya kitabun karim. Inna hu min Sulayman wa inna hu "Bismillahi ar-Rahmani ar-Rahimi. Alla ta'lu alayya wa'tuni muslimin". Qalat ya ayyuha al-mala'u aftuni fii amri maa kuntu qadi'at amran hatta tashhadun. Qalu nahnu ulu qawwat wa ulu ba'sin shadid; w'al-amru ilayki fanzuri maa dha ta'murin. Qalat inna al-muluk idha dakhalu qaryatan afsadu ha wa ja'alu a'izzata ahliha adhillah, wa ka dhalika yafa'lun. Wa inni mursilatun ilay him bi hadiyyatin fa naziratum bi ma yarji al-mursalun.

She [the queen of Sheba] said, "O chiefs, indeed a noble letter has been sent to me. It is from Solomon and it is, 'In the name of Allah, the Compassionate, the Gentle. Do not be arrogant against me but come to me as Muslims'. She said, "O chiefs, give me a fatwa in my affair. I do not decide on an affair except that you witness it". They said, "We are possessors of great strength and mighty force, but the affair is for you, so look to what you will command." She said, "Indeed, kings, when they enter a town, corrupt it and they make the mighty of its people the most abased, and that is what they do. But I am sending messengers to him with a gift and I wait to see how my messengers return."
[b]
COMMENT: [/b]Here the Queen of Sheba speaks with her shura council. Although at the time she was a pagan, she later accepted Islam (see Surah an-Naml ayah 44) and continued to be queen of her people. Therefore, she is also presented as a good model for Muslims.
[b]
C) Surah al-Mujadila ayah 1[/b]

Qad sami'Allahu qawla allati tujadiluka fi zawjiha wa tashtaki ilaAllah. Wa Allahu yasma'u tahawura kuma. InnaAllaha Sami'u Basir.

Indeed Allah heard the saying of she who disputed with you (O Prophet) in (the matter of) her spouse, and she calls upon Allah. And Allah hears the conversation of you two. Indeed Allah is the Hearing, the Seeing.

[b]COMMENT: [/b]Here is an example from the lifetime of the Prophet (sAas). The woman spoke up in front of the Prophet (sAas) in order to bring a complaint. Rather than condemning her speech to a non-mahram man (i.e., the Prophet sAas), Allah SWT said that He heard her and was responding to her. If her speech in public to a non-mahram man were meant to be haram, why did Allah SWT not take this opportunity to forbid it?
[b]
D) Surah al-Ahzab ayah 53[/b]
...Wa idha sa'altuhunna mata'an fa s'aluhunna min wara'i hijab; dhalikum atharu li qulubikum wa qulubihinna...

...And when you ask [the wives of the Prophet] a thing, so ask them from beyond a curtain; that is purer for your hearts and for their hearts...

[b]COMMENT: [/b]Here are the wives of the Prophet (sAas), whom we know Surah al-Ahzab ayah 32 is addressed to. They are commanded to be behind a curtain when visitors to the Prophet (sAas) - who are described using the masculine plural - are asking them questions. A question by its nature requires an answer. Therefore, the wives of the Prophet (sAas) are put by this ayah in the position of speaking to non-mahram men in order to answer their questions. How then can it be haram for them to speak to non-mahram men?
[u][b]
Hadiths[/b][/u]
[b]A) Sahih Bukhari Book 60 Number 277:[/b] Narrated Ibn Abu Mulaika: Ibn Abbas asked permission to visit Aisha before her death, and at that time she was in a state of agony. She then said. "I am afraid that he will praise me too much." And then it was said to her, "He is the cousin of Allah's Apostle and one of the prominent Muslims." Then she said, "Allow him to enter." (When he entered) he said, "How are you?" She replied, "I am all right if I fear (Allah)." Ibn Abbas said, "Allah willing, you are all right as you are the wife of Allah's Apostle and he did not marry any virgin except you and proof of your innocence was revealed from the Heaven." Later on Ibn Az-Zubair entered after him and Aisha said to him, "Ibn Abbas came to me and praised me greatly, but I wish that I was a thing forgotten and out of sight."

[b]COMMENT:[/b] Ibn Abbas (rAa) is definitely not a mahram for Aisha Umm al-Muminin (rAa); they are not even related by blood at all. If it were haram for ibn Abbas (rAa) as a non-mahram to hear Aisha's (rAa) voice because it is awra, how exactly is it that they were conversing? Moreover, this incident occurred near the time of Aisha's (rAa) death, which was long after the death of the Prophet (sAas). If speaking with non-mahram men was halal after the death of the Prophet (sAas), what power is there who can make it haram now? Also note that this hadith is one of many that proves that the wives of the Prophet (sAas) did indeed answer questions from non-mahram men (see note about Surah al-Ahzab ayah 53 above).
[b]
Sahih Bukhari Book 15 Number 88:[/b] Narrated Um Atiya: We were ordered to come out on the Day of 'Id and even bring out the virgin girls from their houses and menstruating women so that they might stand behind the men and say Takbir along with them and invoke Allah along with them and hope for the blessings of that day and for purification from sins.

[b]COMMENT:[/b] Here the women are specifically commanded to stand near the congregation and recite "Allahu akbar". How in the world could the Prophet (sAas) have commanded them to recite aloud if their voices were awra? This puts the question of saying "Subhan Allah" to interrupt the imam in perspective.
[b]
C) Sahih Bukhari Book 54 #515: [/b]Narrated Sa'd bin Abu Waqqas: Once Umar asked leave to see Allah's Apostle, in whose company there were some Qurayshi women, who were talking to him and asking him for more financial support, raising their voices. When Umar asked permission to enter, the women quickly screened themselves (fa badirna al-hijab). When Allah's Apostle admitted Umar, Allah's Apostle was smiling. Umar said, "O Allah's Apostle! May Allah keep you happy always!". Allah's Apostle said, "I am astonished at these women here with me. As soon as they heard your voice, they quickly screened themselves". Umar said, "O Allah's Apostle! You have more right to be feared by them". Then he addressed (the women) saying, "O enemies of yourselves! Do you fear me and not Allah's Apostle?" They replied, "Yes, for you are a fearful and fierce man as compared to Allah's Apostle". On that Allah's Apostle said (to Umar), "By Him in Whose hands my life is, when satan sees you taking a path, he takes a path other than yours."

[b]COMMENT: [/b]Here is Umar (rAa) conversing with some non-mahram women in front of the Prophet (sAas), and the Prophet (sAas) allowed it. If such conversation were haram, why did he not forbid it? For that matter, he himself was speaking with the women before Umar (rAa) arrived, and indeed the women were "raising their voices" and the Prophet did not forbid them!

[b]D) Sahih Bukhari Book 62 Number 161:[/b] Narrated Anas bin Malik: An Ansari woman came to the Prophet and he took her aside and said (to her), "By Allah, you (Ansar) are the most beloved people to me."

[b]COMMENT: [/b]Here is another example of the Prophet (sAas) himself conversing with a woman. How could this have happened unless it was halal?!

[b]E) Sahih Muslim Book 4 #1926:[/b] Jabir ibn Abdullah reported: I observed prayer with the Messenger of Allah on the Id day. He commenced with prayer before the sermon, without adhan or iqama. He then stood up leaning on Bilal and he commanded (them) to be on guard (against evil for the sake of) Allah and he exhorted (them) on obedience to Him, and he preached to the people and admonished them. He then walked on till he came to the women and preached to them and admonished them and encouraged them to give alms, for most of them are the fuel for Hell. A woman having a dark spot on her cheek stood up and said, "Why is it so, Messenger of Allah?". He said, "For you grumble often and show ingratitude to your spouses". And they began to give alms out of their ornaments such as their earrings and rings, which they threw in the cloak of Bilal.
[b]
COMMENT:[/b] Here we see a woman getting up in the middle of a congregation to speak to the Prophet (sAas). If her voice were awra why did he not tell her to keep quiet? Instead, he answered her question.

[b]F) Sahih Bukhari Book 13 Number 60:[/b] Narrated Sahl bin Sad: There was a woman amongst us who had a farm and she used to sow Silq (a kind of vegetable) on the edges of streams in her farm. On Fridays she used to pull out the Silq from its roots and put the roots in a utensil. Then she would put a handful of powdered barley over it and cook it. The roots of the Silq were a substitute for meat. After finishing the Jumua prayer we used to greet her and she would give us that food which we would eat with our hands, and because of that meal, we used to look forward to Friday.
[b]
COMMENT: [/b]Just to round things out, here is an example of a male Sahabi stopping to exchange a few words with a non-mahram woman. Would the Sahaba (rAa) have been doing this if it were haram?? Also note that this hadith refutes those who say that men and women may not exchange salams.

[b]Note:[/b] This is only a representative sample. There are many more hadiths that could be cited which show men and women conversing to take care of their business. These have been omitted for reasons of space.

[b]An interesting fatwa from Imam Malik[/b]

Muwatta Book 15, Number 15.5.16: Yahya reported...Malik was asked whether a man in the company of a woman who was reciting a passage of Qur'an requiring a prostration should prostrate with her, and he said, "He does not have to prostrate with her. The prostration is only obligatory for people who are with a man who is leading them. He recites the piece and they prostrate with him. Some one who hears a piece of Qur'an that requires a prostration being recited by a man who is not leading him in prayer does not have to do the prostration"

[b]COMMENT: [/b]Imam Malik ibn Anas was the founder of the Maliki madhhab, one of the four major legal schools of Islam. Here he is dealing very clearly with a situation where a man is able to hear a woman reciting the Quran. How could this be if the woman's voice were awra? If that ruling were true, why did Imam Malik not say that the woman should not be reciting Quran where a man could hear her, or say that the man should move away so that he could not hear her? Note that some scholars who do not say the female voice is awra nonetheless claim that women are not to recite the Quran aloud near men. The fatwa of Imam Malik clearly refutes this claim.

[b]
Conclusion[/b]

It should be beyond obvious from the dalils presented above that a woman's voice is not awra and that she may speak with non-mahram men whatever is necessary to complete her business. It is really quite astonishing how something that is reported by many Sahaba (rAa) to be halal (i.e., woman's speech in front of non-mahram men) is declared by some people to be haram on the basis of a Quranic ayah and a hadith that do not even state a ban in the first place!! Let's use some common sense, people! Do not put your opinions in place of the Sunna. If the Prophet (sAas) allowed women to speak in front of non-mahram men, then it is HALAL. Period. Do not innovate obligations in the deen (such as women having to be silent) that Allah SWT and His Messenger did not put there.

[b]Note: [/b]It is true that women should keep their conversations with non-mahram men business-like and that they should make efforts so that their voices are not alluring. However, to say that a woman's voice can never be heard at all is, I feel, extreme and not demanded by Islam. Even some very conservative scholars say that the female voice is not awra.

wasalaam

radio station is a fab idea

if "weak evil men" cant control themselves when they hear a woman talking about islamic issues on the radio

they need medical help ASAP

personally i don't see there being a debate here.

most of us are in agreement that unrelated men and women can talk if Necessary.

we are also in agreement that women should try and not make her voice soft and seductive.

can I assume that Muslim women are not allowed to sing and be heard by non-related men?

Also, regarding prime time womens radio programmes during Ramadhan.. I think it needs to be restricted. I am not in favour of the random 'call-in' sessions. Especially where you have the weird brothers on the line trying it. Sadly it happens.

I think these shows need to be structured more cleverly. Putting a mic in a man or womans face who may not have the Islamic education and letting them get on with it is dangerous. Last year the sisters programme definatly had sisters on it that wernt educated. One of my neighbours presented one.

I think radio programmes are good, but producers of the shows have gotta be a bit more strict in their planning and presenting.

khan bro how can u suggest such restrictions!

bro its all abt dawah. The brothers and sisters are working for islam, y u wanna stop islam?

bro u living in some weird warped version of islam saying calls or some shows neeed to be restricted. u knw the sistas working for da deen innit, dey working and Allah knows dere niyyah innit. bro u gotta bak off cos dey doin d work of deen innit.

"Medievalist" wrote:

khan bro how can u suggest such restrictions!

bro its all abt dawah. The brothers and sisters are working for islam, y u wanna stop islam?

bro u living in some weird warped version of islam saying calls or some shows neeed to be restricted. u knw the sistas working for da deen innit, dey working and Allah knows dere niyyah innit. bro u gotta bak off cos dey doin d work of deen innit.

medievals lost the plot
trys to be cool talking like that
insulting the rest of the forum
then expects ppl to really take him seriously and show him rest..aprt from a couple of bros i dont think anyone else does.
if you disagree with his interpretaion of islam then he gets sarcastic and upset.awwwhhhh..anyone got a tissue...
medieval is the only guy on the forum who thinks womans voice is part of the aurah. Everyone esle has said awoman speaking on radio is ok, of course theres conditions, eveyone konows that...medieval would like women not to be on radio full stop...or if he could help it step outside the house!

Lol....its True

Medieval bro - you gotta learn to respect peoples views

I repeat, this forum is not for fun making....please refrain from immature comments

editor stated medieval is only person who thinks womans voice is awrah in this forum. actually i mentioned that some ulama regard it as awrah. where did i say it was my view?

editor i urge u to clarify ur facts b4 u make accusations upon me.

as for being sarcy or what not, its the only language some ppl understand.

Editor, if the whole world disrespects me it does not matter a fig. You seem to suffer under the misconception that i catually CARE about what others think? No no, brother my thoughts are what ALLAH thinks about me and at the moment I dont think it is positive.

Btw u dont need to worry abt me becoming alim and coming after u. My devotion inshaALLAH will be to abstain from the fitnah and engaging with the akhirah. I pray ALLAH takes me from this world.

"Medievalist" wrote:

editor stated medieval is only person who thinks womans voice is awrah in this forum. actually i mentioned that some ulama regard it as awrah. where did i say it was my view?

editor i urge u to clarify ur facts b4 u make accusations upon me.

as for being sarcy or what not, its the only language some ppl understand.

Editor, if the whole world disrespects me it does not matter a fig. You seem to suffer under the misconception that i catually CARE about what others think? No no, brother my thoughts are what ALLAH thinks about me and at the moment I dont think it is positive.

Btw u dont need to worry abt me becoming alim and coming after u. My devotion inshaALLAH will be to abstain from the fitnah and engaging with the akhirah. I pray ALLAH takes me from this world.

get real bro...
u were the one who started to make a fuss about womans voice on the radio
u were the opne who said 'some' ulema said its part of the awrah..without mentioning who...
of course its your view..no one else said that

u dont be sarcy...u take the mick and insult ppl

[b]My devotion inshaALLAH will be to abstain from the fitnah and engaging with the akhirah. I pray ALLAH takes me from this world.[/b]
so you're gonna bury your head in the sand and hope everything goes away

good luck!

"TheRevivalEditor" wrote:

u were the opne who said 'some' ulema said its part of the awrah..without mentioning who...
of course its your view..no one else said that

!

Yes I did say some ulama say it is part of her awrah. I was giving a view that by some ulama it is an awrah and hence they would not agree to women being on the radio. From me mentioning ulamas view you take that that is my view?

Editor it seems you are determined to misunderstand me.

we should get you two into a boxing ring or a live open-debate

"TheRevivalEditor" wrote:

[b]My devotion inshaALLAH will be to abstain from the fitnah and engaging with the akhirah. I pray ALLAH takes me from this world.[/b]
so you're gonna bury your head in the sand and hope everything goes away
!

If you knew anything about the hadeeth pertaining to the times of fitnah you would understand that there were certain Prophetic advices about what should be done, particulalry in the hadeeth referring to the four traits of fitnah. Alas, if you are openly displaying your ignorance and trying to pass it off as me being isolationist its not my problem. I advise you ask your ''shaykh'' to teach you about the fitnah and what was Sayyidina Ibn Umar radhiyallahu anhuma commanded to do with his sword and his abode.

ALLAH forgive me for explaining issues beyond your understanding.

"Medievalist" wrote:

"TheRevivalEditor" wrote:

[b]My devotion inshaALLAH will be to abstain from the fitnah and engaging with the akhirah. I pray ALLAH takes me from this world.[/b]
so you're gonna bury your head in the sand and hope everything goes away
!

If you knew anything about the hadeeth pertaining to the times of fitnah you would understand that there were certain Prophetic advices about what should be done, particulalry in the hadeeth referring to the four traits of fitnah. Alas, if you are openly displaying your ignorance and trying to pass it off as me being isolationist its not my problem. I advise you ask your ''shaykh'' to teach you about the fitnah and what was Sayyidina Ibn Umar radhiyallahu anhuma commanded to do with his sword and his abode.

ALLAH forgive me for explaining issues beyond your understanding.

i am a jahil bro, what do i know

"Darth Hayder" wrote:

we should get you two into a boxing ring or a live open-debate

naah...he is from the 'madrassah'...a future scholar,a person of tabligh...me...im a nobody. no competition.

can someone please tell me who gets drawn into Fitna when they hear a woman they cant see speaking on the radio about ISLAM

can some guy confirm for me that men really are that weak (and lame? :roll: )

"MuslimSisLilSis" wrote:

can someone please tell me who gets drawn into Fitna when they hear a woman they cant see speaking on the radio about ISLAM

can some guy confirm for me that men really are that weak (and lame? :roll: )

Thats not fitna...men who have a problem with it and create a fuss over it are themselves creating a fitna.
There are much more dangerous and sick things happening in this world which attack our Imaan...but it sdefinitely not a woman talking on the radio

Ed and medivial are both starting to losing it. Ed has said he doesn't belong to Brewalvi, but somehow Med seem to know better , also Med has said he ain't TJ and ed seem to know better then him as well.

Plus med if you going to refer something to ur ulema and not give ur opinion, you can't blame people for taking it as ur opinion. You need to be abit clearer on ur message.

BTW one of my favourite speakers is a woman who is a tabligh on the radio in the morning. Her message is so beautiful and I pretty sure I haven't fallen in love with her, sure I don't see the problem. :roll:

yeh mum is a fan of her too-she's always raving about her

she comes on too early for my liking

I've heard of people falling for other people's "looks" but falling in love with someones voice is a new thing for me

i learn sumin new on the revival evry day

"yuit" wrote:

Ed and medivial are both starting to lose it. Ed has said he doesn't belong to Brewalvi, but somehow Med seem to know better , also Med has said he ain't TJ and ed seem to know better then him as well.

Plus med if you going to refer something to ur ulema and not give ur opinion, you can't blame people for taking it as ur opinion. You need to be abit clearer on ur message.

BTW one of my favourite speakers is a woman who is a tabligh on the radio in the morning. Her message is so beautiful and I pretty sure I haven't fallen in love with her, sure I don't see the problem. :roll:

i havent lost it. it is important for me to CORRECT medieval when he makes his ridiculous statements. He confuses most ppl on the forum an dstarts accusing us of everything under the sun!
oh my god medieval, a tablighi sister on the radio....isnt that fitna? you banging on about it being part of awrah and is fitna and...at the same time a tablighi sister is on the radio....
i say good luck and all teh best to that sister....it takes courage to come on the radio and speak in front of thousands....we need more sisters like that...

yuit u sure she's tablighi?

she ever said that? -she dont claim to be part of any group

and she seems to have a lot of love for ahle bait/Imam Ali etc

which makes me wonder at times ifshe is a shia?

She been doing it for years and is well known, plus I was refering to the bit about you keep calling med a tabligh. He doesn't seem like a tabligh too me and he said he isn't one as well. Which seem to me that you two are just banging your heads against the wall and not really taking each other points in.

"yuit" wrote:

She been doing it for years and is well known, plus I was refering to the bit about you keep calling med a tabligh. He doesn't seem like a tabligh too me and he said he isn't one as well. Which seem to me that you two are just banging your heads against the wall and not really taking each other points in.

he has admitted to being a deobandi
tablighi jamaat is a deobandi organisation
all the scholars he mentions are deobandi or part of TJ
when he says TJ is a divinely inspired organisation...then im sorry thats not support- that's a tablighi. but whats there to be ashamed of?

we disagree on most things..but i dont disagree with him, just for the sake of disagreeing. we think differently, have different views, diffrent mentalities etc...thats all.

"MuslimSisLilSis" wrote:

yuit u sure she's tablighi?

she ever said that? -she dont claim to be part of any group

and she seems to have a lot of love for ahle bait/Imam Ali etc

which makes me wonder at times ifshe is a shia?

love of ahlul bait is not exclusive to shias!

We should love them.

yeh i know

but HATE of the shia is sumin that I've found more common in the Tablighi's

the lady in the radio show quotes often from a SHIA book

which is why I dont think she is a tablighi

Tabligh are not only deobandi. Our mosque allows some tabligh and they would never allow deobandi into the mosque to preach, plus the tabligh seem to talk like our imaam do as well. I much admit most tabligh are deobandi but I think it would be wrong to say all. Plus ed you may be jumping too many conclusion on Med.

On the woman presenter on the radio. I only though she was some sort of tabligh due to the fact that she gave a email, which has tabigh in it. But you right, she doesn't draw on the fact that she from any group or thinking.

wat rado station? frenquency and time?

"Darth Hayder" wrote:

wat rado station? frenquency and time?

It on Spectrum radio, ARY have the station for a little while in the morning, It between 7-8 in the morning that she comes on. Haven't heard it for a while too be honest. I think it on 558 AM,

informal study circles ran by educated youth is the BEST form of dawah IMO

i just returned from one

if the speaker is on a level

u can easily relate to her