Banks hit worldwide by US fraud
Some of the world's biggest banks have revealed that they are victims of a fraud which has lost $50bn (£33bn).
Bernard Madoff has been charged with fraud in what is being described as one of the biggest-ever such cases.
Among the banks which have been hit are Britain's HSBC and RBS, Spain's Santander and France's BNP Paribas.
One of the City's best-known fund managers has criticised US financial regulators for failing to detect the alleged fraud.
Meanwhile the Serious Fraud Office (SFO) has called on workers, former staff and shareholders to come forward with evidence of any corporate wrongdoing in the wake of the credit crunch...
Read more @ BBC News.
I really wanna know what was going through Bernard's head. Did he honestly think he would get away with it. Personally i think he shouldnt be put in prison. I say cut off his hands and then make him eat them. That should teach him a lesson.
Too bad he didnt get away wit it.
£33bn....thats ALOT of money. Imagine wat you could buy wit that.
Not that i condone his behaviour ... im just saying.
When life offers you a dream so far beyond any of your expectations, it is not reasonable to grieve when it comes to an end.
That is really cruel.
How will he pick up his hands to eat them?
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
Yes. There is still a need for people in there... and if people are starting it (or any degree) now, they will finish it around the time the recessionary forces are being destroyed, so its all uphill.
IMO.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
Surely my eyes are decieving me.
/takes off glasses, cleans thems and then puts them back on.
:shock:
No its not. The guy is a thief. Are you condoning theft? Its because of his greediness that the honest, hardworking ppl are out of a job. Those who are above the age of 40 who have been forced out of employment cant even get jobs because companies participate in age discrimination. They cant rely on the poxy law to help them because its really hard to prove age discrimination. They go to the jobcentre to claim back what they put into the system only to be told they will only get the bare minimum back. How the hell is a homeowner suppose to live on £60.50 a week (you of all ppl should understand that). These ppl have had their homes repossessed by the bank because they couldnt keep up with the mortgage repayments as a result of losing their jobs. These ppl (mostly grown men) have literally broken down and sobbed out their heart in front of me and some have even had mental break down because their whole world has collapsed. This is a result of one selfish person. So no i dont think its the least bit cruel. Its easy just sitting their and reading on the internet or paper how the economic recession has affected ppl but actually seeing it in reality isnt.
You can help him
I do understand your point and agree.
My last two lines however the one same gag.
As in its cruel BECAUSE he would not be able to eat them as easily...
which reminds me of a farmer on Jonathan Woss a few years ago... his claim of fame was chopping off his own hand with a small (pen?)knife. It was stuck in some farm machinery which he could not turn off (as the off button was too far away) and it was dragging him in... He had to cut through his wrist to even have a chance to survive.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
lol, wat?
We're all thinking it.
When life offers you a dream so far beyond any of your expectations, it is not reasonable to grieve when it comes to an end.
Fine we can numb the skin, chop his hands off then get the Seraph to put on his chefs hat and make a nice meal out of his hands for him. Nothing fancy mind, were suppose to be punishing him (make sure you run it by me first Seraph it needs the Naz's approval certificate before i pass it onto You who will feed him)
Khush?
Im sure thats from Saw 5.
We were? I can defo say that You was thinking about it coz he is always going about how he could potentially make a profit out of some crazy idea hes got lol.
Not Saw 5 - never seen any of them. Gore is not something I especially want in a film. It can be ok if that is not the whole point of the film. Or its called 300 (which was pretty good. and funny.)
Saw 5 got the idea from him.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
I'm not into cutting off hands but I appreciate the sentiment, this huge fraud creates unimaginable consequences. Obviously fear of a rip-off isn't the same as fear of violent crime which is why we might expect his punishment to be limited, but this is off the scale.
Once violence is out of the picture crimes like this are so fascinating - a Ponzi scheme works fine if you cut and run when the going's good and get ready for an anonymous life of luxury (not that he needed it, he figured he'd help out friends and family). I'm guessing he was too attached to the people he ripped off, the charities and so on, and too proud to run away. Or having been so successful for so long maybe he thought the scam would outlive him and the proceeds would have been too widely spread to track. As it is there's something of that anyway - where is that money? - unless it really was all wasted on the initial investors. Which leads me to wonder who was in on it that got all their dividends. Court proceedings will be interesting.
question is if this will ruin lives... I assume most investors who have been hit spread their money over many different places?
Another question... if there was no credit crunch, would the scheme have fallen flat?
Could this ever have become a viable business? ie at some point, actually turn the investments into real investments?
One think I dislike about the international money markets is that it all looks like a confidence trick to me.
As long as you believe something is of value, the markets work. if you ask questions, they don't.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
Some, but many consultants and investors wouldn't necessarily have pooled all their clients' moneys for a well dispersed investment, instead exposing some more than others according to terms of the account. Additionally Madoff seems to have had an extraordinary and ostensibly unimpeachable character following a wildly successful career and control of Nasdaq, and given his returns he acquired just as many trusting admirers who poured in their money as he did suspicious onlookers.
It's very unlikely as investors withdrew funds that he would be able to maintain that new investment rate to pay them, having already used older funds for dividends, so eventually it ought to be doomed.
I've been thinking about this and production as a whole, from a lay perspective. But it might be self-correcting - there's no absolute way of matching the creation of money to the creation and consumption of value and product, but natural cycles in a free market nevertheless allow for new product and new money. In this case, from one perspective, rich people who could try a humbler lifestyle lost out on money they were tucking away in any event, mostly to other rich people who spent it with the less rich.
The "fictitious value" model you're talking about applies to this and also to pyramid schemes, where instead of a central administration promising a return, money is passed up the system on the promise of authority to make money from those not yet subscribed - a mug's game to those unsubscribed, that I don't think you can compare to fair trade. In those situations the lower part of the pyramid is obviously far fatter than the upper part, meaning when it peters out some 80% of investors lose to some 20%, and even in that 20% the distribution is graded in favour of upper tiers.
I don't think there's anything wrong with investment for profit per se - entrepreneur x gets to do what he couldn't have done otherwise while investor y gets a cut of x's profits, and the consumer supplying that overall turnover receives something of benefit. But numerous things can break that down, such as when x isn't an entrepreneur but frightened Joe Public seeking to cover his family expenses in return for impossible interest, encouraged by the government and banks to seize the day. x can file for bankruptcy hurting y's pockets and sometimes his goodwill. y can request the investment back at a crucial time.
When it works everyone's living standards improve and the parties to the deal are rewarded. When it doesn't work or is corrupt people can destroy each other.
But maybe this credit crunch has some characteristics of an upside-down pyramid - a wealthy few lent money to those who were skint anyway, and who paid some back before defaulting on their mortgages. Banks knowingly obfuscated their errors by trading in obscurities and cooking the books (I hazard a guess), because the last thing they needed was to cause concern in such a competitive market. Finally the taxpayer's making up for some of it, which might even be fair redistribution if the banks' directors and big clients were not determined to profit. I am guessing there's more scandal ahead but it will serve as a correction and a warning never to be heeded, before the cycle resumes. In any event what I notice is those that are most skint at the end were skint in the beginning and lived a little.
That's my stuff and I'm completely unqualified. I wonder what Dave would say.
Salam
Madoff makesoff with billions of dollars; and they
cant get it back from him. He is too clever for them.
If one guy can swindle the entire financial system,
it only goes to show how stupid the system is.
New York is again caught with its pants down.
Omrow