Can you Prove that God exists?
I remember having a trip to Sodom [sorry London] I paid my usual visit to Hyde Park. It was a nice day and I had taken the opportunity to buy a Gregg’s meal deal [very good value, but I am not sure if it is Halal or Haram?]
After lunch I took a walk to the Speakers Corner, it is well worth a visit to listen to people expressing their personal opinions. Maybe join in, for more info check out the link below.
http://www.speakerscornertrust.org/guidance/guidance-notes/conducting-ev...
Anyway I am digressing from my story. There were two gentlemen who were saying that their religion was the true religion and the usual my religion/god is better then your religion/god. All quite amicable and in it’s way it can be entertaining and some times informative. If you look up the history of Hyde Park corner, the site used to be where they [the authorities] carried out public hangings for both the entertainment and the intimidation of the masses. Right, I have digressed enough I shall get back to my subject. Can you Prove that God Exists?
The debate was going quite well, and was fairly evenly matched; both debaters appeared to know what they were on about. They were debating quite reasonably with each other and both appeared to be sincere in their beliefs. Then this man came along and asked a reasonable question.
If you both were asked to prove in a court of law that God exists? Could you do so?
Both parties looked at each other, then both looked at the man, as if to say, are you asking a serious question? Or is it a wind up? The man repeated the question and the people around him said,“ Go on give him an answer.
The first man said just look around you, if God did not exist, there would be no trees, animals or people. God created all this for our benefit; The man replied that is not proof, it is just nature and evolution that created those things.
The second man said, if there was no God then the Quran would not exist, as Allah told Mohammed what to put in the Quran; The man replied, but the Quran was only what Mohammed said, that God told him. There is no actual proof.
The first man also said our Bible tells of what God had told prophets from Abraham onwards so God must exist; Again the man replied, these are just stories that prophets had said that God had told them. There is no actual proof.
The second man said, you are insulting Mohammed, by doubting his word; Again the man replied, It is only the word of Mohammed saying what he believed he had been told by God. It is not actual proof.
The first man joined in, countless millions down the centuries; believed that the Scriptures are the living word of God; Again yes, I believe that they believed that this was so. But believing does not make it true and that is not proof.
After a few more questions in this manner, both men said to the questioner, you are ridiculing us both. Then they used the staple put down, what you are saying is blasphemy. Which I suppose in the good old days when religious theocracy was the norm, out would come the stones and you would be stoned to death. To dissent is futile, or should that be fatal?
Whether God exists or not is irrelevant it comes down to faith, and not proof. But the main problem with this is, when people insist that what they believe is correct and will not tolerate any opposition to their views. Indeed many theologians, have formed a theocracy in which their views where dominant [it’s their law, it’s their punishment] and have made a good living representing, or speaking on behalf of God. But I am digressing again.
Take Christianity we have just completed the Lent period, ending with Holy week.
We had Palm Sunday with Jesus entering Jerusalem, be it on foot or riding a donkey [take your pick] The crowd who had heard Jesus speak and seen him perform healings and miracles. People who had simply heard stories about Jesus from others all welcomed him in to Jerusalem by placing palm leaves in front of him.
Then we have Maundy Thursday in which a Christian Leader washes the feet of others to show that Jesus came to serve and not to be served. Now replaced by the giving of money in lieu of this.
https://www.royalmint.com/discover/uk-coins/maundy-money/
There is also a service carried out in some churches called stripping of the alter. We have a service in which we portray Jesus’s last supper were he washes the feet of the disciples. Then the betrayal by one of is closest disciples Judas, to the Temple Hierarchy, leading to Jesus’s, Trial, Humiliation and eventual death on the cross. After the act of communion [mass] the cross, candles etc, and the alter covering are quickly taken off. The Church lights are turned off, all leave the Church and the doors are locked. All this is done in silence.
This is to represent how most of Jesus’s disciples deserted Jesus in fear for their lives. Also how the crowds who just a few days previously were cheering him and welcoming Jesus in to Jerusalem. Now called for Jesus’s crucifixion and death.
But come Easter Sunday we celebrate the most important Sunday of the Christian calendar with Holy Communion [mass] and the greeting, “Jesus as risen, he as risen indeed and overcome death.”
I know it is declared blasphemous by Islam. Who say that either Jesus did not die, but fainted? Or that a substitute was killed in his place?
Quran 4:157-159
And because of their saying (in boast), “We killed Messiah ‘Iesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary), the Messenger of Allah,” – but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but the resemblance of ‘Iesa (Jesus) was put over another man (and they killed that man), and those who differ therein are full of doubts. They have no (certain) knowledge, they follow nothing but conjecture. For surely; they killed him not [i.e. ‘Iesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary) ]:
But Allah raised him [‘Iesa (Jesus)] up (with his body and soul) unto Himself (and he is in the heavens). And Allah is Ever All-Powerful, All-Wise.
And there is none of the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians), but must believe in him [‘Iesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary), as only a Messenger of Allah and a human being], before his [‘Iesa (Jesus) or a Jew’s or a Christian’s] death (at the time of the appearance of the angel of death). And on the Day of Resurrection, he [‘Iesa (Jesus)] will be a witness against them.
So there we have it Jesus did not die on the cross.
But Allah raised him [‘Iesa (Jesus)] up (with his body and soul) unto Himself (and he is in the heavens). And Allah is Ever All-Powerful, All-Wise.
There cannot be two truths can there? Either Jesus was not Crucified and died. Or that another man was Crucified and killed in his place. The choice is yours to make.
But most Christians believe that Jesus, was Crucified, died, buried and was resurrected three days later. Was it true? Was it a lie? We only have the witness statements of both the Crucifixion and his resurrection. No actual proof, or do we?
My proof of the event, maybe classed as circumstantial, but here is my explanation of why I believe it was true.
We have Jesus’s disciples, who fled in fear and panic abandoning Jesus. They hid from the authorities in case they were next. Then something happed to give them confidence and to start [witnessing] telling of Jesus’s testimony and spreading his ideas. Not by violence, but simply by persuasion and example. Indeed some of them were crucified in a similar manner to Jesus. Had they seen Jesus in the flesh after his death? Had they received the Holy Spirit? Did both of these events give them this confidence?
Is this not proof? Or is it heresy? Would this evidence stand up in a court of Law?
I don’t know, we are back to belief, or faith, or simply trust. Then again one mans belief is another man’s heresy. But should he be punished or killed for his beliefs?
The next main event in the Christian calendar is Pentecost [coming of the holy spirit] about seven weeks after Easter. More about this later.
Comments
Ive responded to the issue of whether God exists in a separate post.
In relation to whether Prophet Isa (as) was Crucified and resurrection, none of the disciples were present at the time of crucifixion. The people that knew what Prophet Isa (as) looked like were not present.
Whether the disciples saw him 3 days later, that is possible. But that does not mean that he was crucified or resurrected.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
Totally disagree. These are my reasons why.
Matthew chapter 26 verses 1 to 5
The Plot Against Jesus
1] When Jesus had finished saying all these things, he told his disciples, “You know that after two days the Passover is coming, and the Son of Man will be handed over to be crucified.” Then the chief priests and the elders of the people met together in the palace of the high priest, who was named Caiaphas. They planned to arrest Jesus by stealth and kill him. But they said, “Not during the feast, so that there won’t be a riot among the people.”
Matthew chapter 26 verse 36 to 68
Gethsemane
36] Then Jesus went with them to a place called Gethsemane, and he said to the disciples, “Sit here while I go over there and pray.” He took with him Peter and the two sons of Zebedee, and became anguished and distressed. Then he said to them, “My soul is deeply grieved, even to the point of death. Remain here and stay awake with me.” Going a little farther, he threw himself down with his face to the ground and prayed, “My Father, if possible, let this cup pass from me! Yet not what I will, but what you will.” Then he came to the disciples and found them sleeping. He said to Peter, “So, couldn’t you stay awake with me for one hour? Stay awake and pray that you will not fall into temptation. The spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak.” He went away a second time and prayed, “My Father, if this cup cannot be taken away unless I drink it, your will must be done.” He came again and found them sleeping; they could not keep their eyes open. So leaving them again, he went away and prayed for the third time, saying the same thing once more. Then he came to the disciples and said to them, “Are you still sleeping and resting? Look, the hour is approaching, and the Son of Man is betrayed into the hands of sinners. Get up, let us go. Look! My betrayer is approaching!”
Betrayal and Arrest
47] While he was still speaking, Judas, one of the twelve, arrived. With him were a large crowd armed with swords and clubs, sent by the chief priests and elders of the people. (Now the betrayer had given them a sign, saying, “The one I kiss is the man. Arrest him!”) Immediately he went up to Jesus and said, “Greetings, Rabbi,” and kissed him. Jesus said to him, “Friend, do what you are here to do.” Then they came and took hold of Jesus and arrested him. But one of those with Jesus grabbed his sword, drew it out, and struck the high priest’s slave, cutting off his ear. Then Jesus said to him, “Put your sword back in its place! For all who take hold of the sword will die by the sword. Or do you think that I cannot call on my Father, and that he would send me more than twelve legions of angels right now? How then can the scriptures that say it must happen this way be fulfilled?” At that moment Jesus said to the crowd, “Have you come out with swords and clubs to arrest me like you would an outlaw? Day after day I sat teaching in the temple courts, yet you did not arrest me. But this has happened so that the scriptures of the prophets would be fulfilled.” Then all the disciples left him and fled.
Condemned by the Sanhedrin
57] Now the ones who had arrested Jesus led him to Caiaphas, the high priest, in whose house the experts in the law and the elders had gathered. But Peter was following him from a distance, all the way to the high priest’s courtyard. After going in, he sat with the guards to see the outcome. The chief priests and the whole Sanhedrin were trying to find false testimony against Jesus so that they could put him to death. But they did not find anything, though many false witnesses came forward. Finally two came forward and declared, “This man said, ‘I am able to destroy the temple of God and rebuild it in three days.’” So the high priest stood up and said to him, “Have you no answer? What is this that they are testifying against you?” But Jesus was silent. The high priest said to him, “I charge you under oath by the living God, tell us if you are the Christ, the Son of God.” Jesus said to him, “You have said it yourself. But I tell you, from now on you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Power and coming on the clouds of heaven.” Then the high priest tore his clothes and declared, “He has blasphemed! Why do we still need witnesses? Now you have heard the blasphemy! What is your verdict?” They answered, “He is guilty and deserves death.” Then they spat in his face and struck him with their fists. And some slapped him, saying, “Prophesy for us, you Christ! Who hit you?”
But as Judea was a province of Rome and subject to Roman [civil] law, and whilst the punishment for blasphemy was death. They, the Sanhedrin could not lawfully carry out the death sentence. So they had Jesus taken [under temple guard] to Pontius Pilot the Roman Governor.
There Jesus was questioned by Pontius Pilot, who after questioning him said, “I find this man not guilty of breaking any Roman [civil] law. Take him to King Herod for it is his decision.
King Herod, who did not want to anger both the Romans and the Sanhedrin, again passed the buck and sent him back to the Sanhedrin.
The Sanhedrin, in turn sent Jesus back, to Pontius Pilot. Who again says, “ I can find no fault in this man,” The Sanhedrin then play their final cards, threatening to go over Pilot’s head and bring the matter to the attention of Rome by stirring up civil unrest in Judea. Again how little things have changed in two millennia? So Pilot caves in and authorises Jesus’s death by crucifixion.
So up to this point there is no doubt that the authorities, both religious and civil, are dealing with the man known a Jesus of Nazareth.
Matthew chapter 27 verses 55 and 56. Jesus’ Death
55] Many women who had followed Jesus from Galilee and given him support were also there, watching from a distance. Among them were Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James and Joseph, and the mother of the sons of Zebedee.
John chapter 19 verses 25 to 27
27] Now standing beside Jesus’ cross were his mother, his mother’s sister, Mary the wife of Clopas, and Mary Magdalene. So when Jesus saw his mother and the disciple whom he loved standing there, he said to his mother, “Woman, look, here is your son!” He then said to his disciple, “Look, here is your mother!” From that very time the disciple took her into his own home.
John chapter 19 verses 38 to 40. Jesus’ Burial
38 After this, Joseph of Arimathea, a disciple of Jesus (but secretly, because he feared the Jewish leaders), asked Pilate if he could remove the body of Jesus. Pilate gave him permission, so he went and took the body away. Nicodemus, the man who had previously come to Jesus at night, accompanied Joseph, carrying a mixture of myrrh and aloes weighing about seventy-five pounds. Then they took Jesus’ body and wrapped it, with the aromatic spices, in strips of linen cloth according to Jewish burial customs.
The above is my evidence why I believe that it was Jesus who died on the cross and not substitute in his place. For Jesus to use a substitute would have been totally against all of his teachings about personal responsibilities.
But at the end of the day it is down to a question of faith and belief. But it is good that in the west we can openly debate these issues and if need be agree to disagree.