[b]EDIT: I knew this was a bad idea from the start.Before we all get carried away this thread will be locked.
If you want to ask brother Malik questions regarding Shia
beliefs then please do so in another thread in a polite and
genuinely inquisitive manner.------ Judge, Jury, and Executioner[/b]
another thread? that^ thread already was proceeding in a 'polite fashion' till Med posted on it. :roll: i guess it might be a better idea for ppl to PM bro malik their Qs?
[b]EDIT: Split from No Topic. This will make it easier to lock without affecting the No Topic thread. ------- Judge, Jury, and Executioner [/b]
What was so impolite about my posts?
I didnt level personal insult.
I am sorry you though I ruined that thread. I was restrained and it was my restraint that resulted in my offering ppl more info in PM rather than...
[b]EDIT: Same rules apply again. No sectarianism. The other thread was a one-off. ----- Judge, Jury, and Executioner [/b]
Ya ALLAH Madad.
Haq Chaar Yaar
I say it was a good call.
One question was bogging everything down.
There was to be be no agreement, as it was not that type of issue where one party could be convinced to change their mind.
Other questions were secondary, and ignored.
It was not impoliteness, but more the fact that it would not go anywhere... and other questions would not eb answered.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
oh sure, telling someone theyr going to end up in Hellfire isn't impolite at all!! :roll:
[size=9]I NEVER WORE IT BECAUSE OF THE TALIBAN, MOTHER. I LIKE THE [b]MODESTY[/b] AND [b]PROTECTION[/b] IT AFFORDS ME FROM THE EYES OF MEN.[/size] [url=http://www.adherents.com/lit/comics/Dust.html]Dust, X-Men[/url]
how can u be so sure of that considering malik didnt get the chance to come back and comment on our posts?
[size=9]I NEVER WORE IT BECAUSE OF THE TALIBAN, MOTHER. I LIKE THE [b]MODESTY[/b] AND [b]PROTECTION[/b] IT AFFORDS ME FROM THE EYES OF MEN.[/size] [url=http://www.adherents.com/lit/comics/Dust.html]Dust, X-Men[/url]
because we all were almost at each others throats.
He gave more than one answer... the other answers were just left aside...
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
where did I say any1 would end up in hellfire?
I said they are kafir, they are the dirtiest kuffar.
I did not mention hellfire in even one of my posts, if i did then please quote me. If I didnt then I wud like an apology, but wont be holding my breath.
Some might say calling them kafir and saying the going to hell is basically the same. Maybe, but I have not mentioned hell, nor have I condemned any1 PERSONALLY.
Aasiyah please be so kind as to READ what I write before you type, thank you.
If you had written that labelling someone a kafir is not impolite is it? then I wouldnt say anything but plz dont put words in my mouth.
As a person who normally appears objective in most of the issues that arise here I am noticing a slight skewing towards subjectivism when it comes to me.
You are entitled to your view.
Ya ALLAH Madad.
Haq Chaar Yaar
Good Evening (or rather good morning) Med.
How goes it?
usually i'm the first one to apologise, if someone expects an apology off me they're likely to get it. but Med, ur just taking the mick. u accuse me of being biased against you and THEN expect an apology?! if ud been reading any of my posts, ud realise that tht is the biggest falsehood anyone cud attribute to me. how many times have i made clear that i do not advocate attacking a person, but rather their argument?! :roll:
and for u of all ppl to say that just makes it worse - there are enuf times i've agreed with u on a topic where i thought u were making sense... even tho everyone else seemed to b in disagreement.
ok so now its a matter of semantics? thats lame - if u need to fall back on semantics, that means you're not confident of your own argument.
ur saying that^ isn't 'personal'? i'm sure malik would beg to differ. :roll:
[size=9]I NEVER WORE IT BECAUSE OF THE TALIBAN, MOTHER. I LIKE THE [b]MODESTY[/b] AND [b]PROTECTION[/b] IT AFFORDS ME FROM THE EYES OF MEN.[/size] [url=http://www.adherents.com/lit/comics/Dust.html]Dust, X-Men[/url]
Now i'm going to put on my Captain Obvious (TM) gloves, my Captain Obvious glasses (available through certain vendors for a limited time offer some restrictions may apply offer not valid in California) and my hideous purple hat:
[img]http://www.cosmicoutfitters.com/images/hatpimp1.gif[/img]
[size=7](note: stop PMing if that's me, it's not, it's just some random (creepy) individual I googled when I type in "pimp hat")[/size]
And i'm gonna go ahead and say that that was probably an insult.
Unless Kafir is a term of endearment?
Your right.
The term Kafir is a very endearing, sweet compliment that a person only uses to those whom they have a soft spot for.
It is considered a very high compliment
exHT obviously had a very special place in his heart for you
:roll: :roll:
I know i've got a special place in my heart for Tex.
We should send him a "come back" email!!!
well said Aasiya
the boy thinks that calling a Muslim a kafir isnt a persoanl insult
I'm suppose he'd feel honoured if someone called him a kafir :roll:
next he'll say that accusing people of commiting Shirk and biddah aint insults either :roll:
Don't wana get attacked but I think Med had a valid point. I've personally had shia friends, and we got along fine until the subject of Sahabah (ra) came up. Now they insulted certain Sahabah but I just kept calm and replied back. Afterwards they felt so silly at having exposed their hatred, they rang up to apologise. But things were never the same again damage was done, true colours shown.
My point is until you face the same situation you don't know how you'll react to ppl who abuse the Sahabah (ra), and suggest they are just like you and I. How can the likes of Abu bakr (ra) or even Ali (ra) for that matter be just like you and I. These men sacrificed everything for the sake of Allah (swt) and their love for the messenger (saw). So when someone insults them I find it very hard to understand how anyone can go about defending the offenders.
Although I can understand why we shouldn't recklessly call ppl kafir in case that title comes upon us. It's also kind of ridiculous to always sit on the fence, especially when a persons disbelief is so blatant.
This isn't meant to carry on the locked thread, so i'll say no more on the subject.
P.S there is no polite way of insulting someone as malik did when he suggested sahabah are just ordinary ppl. cept ali (ra). There's also no easy way of criticising someones beliefs as med did malik. I mean how can you politely tell someone obese that they don't look fat in a certain top? There's no polite way of saying certain things in life.
Yashmaki!!!!!!!!
There you go with your [i]independent opinions[/i] and your "politeness" and impeccable spelling and grammar.
HOW DARE YOU AGREE WITH ANYONE WHO ISN'T ON THE LIST OF ACCEPTABLE PEOPLE TO AGREE WITH.
To refresh your memory here is the list:
Dave
Hayder
Irfghan
Dawud
AND MED IS NOT ON THE LIST.
Niether for that matter is Aasiyah, MuslimSister, Admin, Salaf, 100, 100man, Timbo, Angel, Seema, and foremost and especially LILSIS.
If people wanna sit on the fence regarding shi'tes they can.
Alhamdulillah I have the seen, heard and read the FULL EVIDENCES regarding the shi'tes. Anyone want info PM me.
This concept of not exposing a persons kufr and irtidaad is western, where religion is seen as personal and private and no1 shud make judgment on anothers personal convictions.
Well, Im sorry but the whole history of Islaam bears testimony to the fact that whenever any deviation or innovation occurred in the religion, the orthodox believers stood up to challenge this and expose it.
The fitnah of the shi'tes is a fitnah.
I say with full conviction and with full imaan KAFIR KAFIR SHIA KAFIR.
Personal or impersonal, whoever says he is a twelver, is a kafir.
This religion alhamdulillah has to some extent remained on tawheed and upon islaam because whenever deviations were introduced they were checked and exposed, and it will remain such.
The abusers of Sahaabah Karaam are kafir of the worst degree.
If you aint heard a shia say that then, I aint heard every qadiani say that he believes in mirza ghulam shaytaan qadiani either but we say that a person who says he is qadiani is also a kafir because NECESSARILY it is there religious doctrine to deny Khatme Nubuwwah.
SIMILARLY, it is twelver DOCTRINE to make tabarra on Sahabah Karaam and hence they are kafir.
Please think with a clear mind and truth shall inshaALLAH manifest itself.
Ya ALLAH Madad.
Haq Chaar Yaar
Salaam
Aasiya I really admire your posts on this matter.
Calling another Muslim a Kafir is a serious accusation. Even if one feels confident that they’re right isn’t it better to be safe rather then sorry?
Our pious predecessors used to think twice before announcing that something is haraam or halaal….and when they were asked a question they would break out in sweat and would prefer it that someone else answered the question.
Not because they didn’t know the answer but because they knew the dire consequences of being wrong.
Imam Malik was once asked 50 questions and to each question he said didn’t know the answer…and that was also because he was aware of the consequences of being wrong.
And those were people who were extremely knowledgeable and had high Iman and Taqwa.
Even if they are Kafir….like it has been pointed out before-So what? Will God give us a gold medal for being right?
What exactly will we gain by being right?
And hypothetically speaking, even if they ARE Kafir…by calling them “dirty kafir” will that really make them want to question their beliefs and change their ways….or will it once again create barriers when there need not be any?
Wasalaam
Before you said they were faasiq?
I am not denying that we f=ind their views highly offensive. Neither am I against calling a non-believer a non-believer.
I am not sitting on the fence. I am saying using the term kufr needs to be backed up very heavily. Here if you call malik a kaafir, you need to prove HE is a kaafirr, and not that many shias are...
[b]EDIT: OK. Everyone's had their say. THREAD LOCKED. ----- Judge, Jury, and Executioner [/b]
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.