Spot on Hajjar!

Like I said, there has to be some sort of mutualism.

Mash Allah, thanks for clearing that up Hajjar, sometimes if you don't understand something in Islam you have to have faith that Allah is just and He swt knows what we do not. Oh and ofcourse make sure it's the correct info.

Jazakallah khair

Oh and i heard or read somwhere that on the day of judgement for a woman, her brother, husband & father will also be asked about how they looked after her, guided her etc. Basically the men will also be accounted for their wife, sister, daughter. So it's our duty to look afyer them. Can't remember exactly.

Anyone know what i'm talking about?

ThE pOwEr Of SiLeNcE wrote:

I have heard that parents will be asked about how they brought up their children

Why? that's not fair, everyone is an individual and each person should be accountable for there own actions

and their own actions include how they brought up their kids.

children are a "trust"/amanah givento them by Allah.

You wrote:

and their own actions include how they brought up their kids.

But that up bringing ends at a certain stage lets say puberty or something and Allah should not hold them accountable for there children’s whole life, what about if they were ok before puberty when they were under there parents control but went there own way after puberty when the parents don’t have control of there children or at least in the UK

or say a father marries his daughter off to someone but she later decides to have an affair now should the father be blamed for this as well? He did what he could but the daughter chose to have an affair now how is that the fathers fault?

i believe after they reach puberty parents are not accountable anymore. you're accountable for yourself.

but Allah knows best

Lilly wrote:

i believe after they reach puberty parents are not accountable anymore. you're accountable for yourself.

but Allah knows best

Then why are parents held accountable for there children's actions before puberty? when they shouldn't be as they're children are not held responsible for any Islamic duties because there innocent AFAIK

well..not accountable for their actions, but more accountable for bringing them up correctly. and if that impact their life AFTER puberty, then maybe parents will be responsible.

like if when they were kids they encouraged them to do a certain action that isnt allowed in islam, and later, when the kid reaches puberty, the kid still do it, coz parents never taught them its wrong, then i think parents is in trouble.

">http://www.youtube.com/user/ummahfilms?blend=1&ob=4#p/c/C9E6296531083FB7...

dont worry about eh "halfourdeen" advert. its just an advert.. forward it if you want. but watch teh vid. well worth it.

Lilly wrote:

well..not accountable for their actions, but more accountable for bringing them up correctly. and if that impact their life AFTER puberty, then maybe parents will be responsible.

What if they've done there best but the children still do something bad because of bad society example like when your at college 2 Muslim friends -2 non Muslim the non Muslims say oh come lets go for a drink [alcohol] and they ask there Muslims friends to join them on purpose when they know that Muslims aren’t allowed to drink just for the fun of it now if the Muslims say no I’m not allowed to drink then there's a fear of not being “with it”or being a religious loser and losing best friends

Lilly wrote:

like if when they were kids they encouraged them to do a certain action that isnt allowed in islam, and later, when the kid reaches puberty, the kid still do it, coz parents never taught them its wrong, then i think parents is in trouble.

You mean like when someone knocks at the door and you don't want to meet them you tell your son or daughter to say go and tell them dads not at home which might encourage them to lie in future

they arent best friends if they are doing this to you. and inshaaAllah the kids have by now learnt (from their parents) that its wrong)

edit: yeah something like that, if parents dont explain or dont have a valid reason why they lied. im saying stuff like maybe listening to music or watching too much movies, or not praying regurlarly/on time etc... or not covering islamically, not taking your son to the masjid. not given them a religious education. etcc... etc...

Lilly wrote:

they arent best friends if they are doing this to you. and inshaaAllah the kids have by now learnt (from their parents) that its wrong)

They know it's wrong but they can't handle the peer pressure

Lilly wrote:

edit: yeah something like that, if parents dont explain or dont have a valid reason why they lied. i'm saying stuff like maybe listening to music or watching too much movies, or not praying regularly on time etc... or not covering islamically, not taking your son to the masjid. not given them a religious education. etc... etc...

The only valid reason for lying is if your life is in danger
There's nothing wrong with listening to music or watching movies

agree with hajjar also. tht is why i was confused about the Q tbh

@Lollywood. Nobody said you will be accountable for anyone elses actions, that doesn't make sense. What you will be accountable for is your own and a part of your accountability will be how you raised your kids, how you safeguarded your wife, how you look after your sister? Any responsiblilty you have you will be asjed about that and that alone.

As long as you fullfil your duties and responsiiblities and give people their rights, that is what Allah will take into account. For example if as a parent you warn your child to stay away from drugs and you even keep an eye on him, you've done your duty and tried your best. Now if the child chooses to disobey you and go do drugs only they and they alone will be accounted for it.

On the day of judgement you will be asked about it and if it's shown that you done your part than you will not be held accountable. Simple.

Just think about your duties, responsibilities and the rights of others but do not try to force anything on anyone unless you have that right.

Foysol89 wrote:

@Lollywood. Nobody said you will be accountable for anyone elses actions, that doesn't make sense. What you will be accountable for is your own and a part of your accountability will be how you raised your kids, how you safeguarded your wife, how you look after your sister? Any responsiblilty you have you will be asked about that and that alone.

Kids don't listen these days if you tell them not to do something they'll go an do it

Foysol89 wrote:

As long as you fullfil your duties and responsiiblities and give people their rights, that is what Allah will take into account. For example if as a parent you warn your child to stay away from drugs and you even keep an eye on him, you've done your duty and tried your best. Now if the child chooses to disobey you and go do drugs only they and they alone will be accounted for it.

When you say rights what kind of rights do you mean?

Foysol89 wrote:

On the day of judgement you will be asked about it and if it's shown that you done your part than you will not be held accountable. Simple.

Just think about your duties, responsibilities and the rights of others but do not try to force anything on anyone unless you have that right.

Ok, I will try and think about my duties and responsibilities
We Muslims have forced Islam on many people and think of it as our duty to do so, why don't we let people decide for themselves?

forced conversions have been very common throughout all Islamic history, although it was but rarely official government policy.

Noted cases include the conversion of Samaritans to Islam at the hands of the rebel Ibn Firāsa, conversions in the 12th century under the Almohad dynasty of North Africa and Andalusia, as well as in Persia under the Safavid dynasty where Sunnis were converted to Shia and Jews were converted to Islam.
A form of forced conversion became institutionalized during the Ottoman Empire in the practice of devşirme, a human levy in which Christian boys were seized and collected from their families (usually in the Balkans), enslaved, converted to Islam, and then trained for high ranking service to the sultan

we cant FORCE someone into Islam.

Lollywood, where did you get that piece of writing from? Wikipedia?
Because if you did, then you've just ignored the real Islamic rules on forced conversions and the conduct of MOST Muslim rulers and given the extreme minorities too much legitimacy and thought.
What about the Prophet Muhammad, when he conquered Makkah? What about Saladin, when he re-captured Jerusalem? What about the fact that most of the time there was multi-faith harmony in Ummayad Spain?
Why ignore those bits and give the minority too much attention and misrepresent the truth in the process?
Unless ofcourse you didn't know?

lollywood can you not edit your things AFTER people have posted about them.

thank you.

Lilly wrote:

lollywood can you not edit your things AFTER people have posted about them.

thank you.

I only edit to add videos or change some mistakes

DONT.

if you're going to edit, you have to write or somehow tell others you've edited your comment. and if its to add QUOTES then you just do it afterwards.

Lilly wrote:

DONT.

if you're going to edit, you have to write or somehow tell others you've edited your comment. and if its to add QUOTES then you just do it afterwards.

Ok, your wish is my command

I guess that's what some people do.
Lollywood, if you need time to reply then by all means you're more than welcome, just sometime this lifetime would be good.

The Lamp wrote:

Lollywood, where did you get that piece of writing from? Wikipedia?
Because if you did, then you've just ignored the real Islamic rules on forced conversions and the conduct of MOST Muslim rulers and given the extreme minorities too much legitimacy and thought.
What about the Prophet Muhammad, when he conquered Makkah? What about Salaudin, when he re-captured Jerusalem?
What about the fact that most of the time there was multi-faith harmony in Ummayad Spain?
Why ignore those bits and give the minority too much attention and misrepresent the truth in the process?
Unless ofcourse you didn't know?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2006/aug/28/middleeastthemedia.tvnews

Freed Fox pair tell of kidnap torment before forced conversion to Islam

Two journalists from the American Fox News channel were freed unharmed in Gaza yesterday after being forced at gunpoint to convert to Islam at the end of a two-week kidnapping ordeal.

The Hindu Forum of Britain claims hundreds of mostly Sikh and Hindu girls have been intimidated by Muslim men who take them out on dates before terrorising them until they convert.
Sir Ian spoke about the problem at a conference organised by the forum.

Extremist Muslims who force vulnerable teenage girls to convert to Islam are being targeted by police, Met chief Sir Ian Blair has revealed.
Police are working with universities to clamp down on "aggressive conversions" during which girls are beaten up and forced to abandon university courses.
• Muslim pupils 'need their own showers'

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-437871/Police-protect-girls-forc...

why waste our life with this stupid rubbish?

if anyone wanted to read the dailymail, we'd go on that website.

you're just trying to start a fitnah on this forum.

lollywood wrote:

Lilly wrote:

DONT.

if you're going to edit, you have to write or somehow tell others you've edited your comment. and if its to add QUOTES then you just do it afterwards.

Ok, your wish is my command

now you know what married life gonna feel like sonny.

Yes you've quoted some examples, and while we Muslims should challenge that; however, it doesn't mean that this is the norm, does it? Or that mainstream Muslims do this. It doesn't, if you want to talk about forced "Islamic" conversions, then you also have to acknowledge tolerance in the history of Islam, and what the Prophet Muhammad's (pbuh) view would be on this.

Don't just look at one side and spread fitnah. Not cool!

The Lamp wrote:

Yes you've quoted some examples, and while we Muslims should challenge that; however, it doesn't mean that this is the norm, does it? Or that mainstream Muslims do this. It doesn't, if you want to talk about forced "Islamic" conversions, then you also have to acknowledge tolerance in the history of Islam, and what the Prophet Muhammad's (pbuh) view would be on this.

Don't just look at one side and spread fitnah. Not cool!

look lollywood how sensible Lamp is? he ACKNOWLEDGES what you say! (unlike most of us who always shout at you and tell you off, me being most guilty)

now lets drop this topic.