Nicky Campbell presents topical debate, live from King Edward VI Handsworth School in Birmingham.
Contributing to a special debate on the future of British Islam are the Executive Director of Quilliam, the counter-extremism think tank, Maajid Nawaz; Birmingham City Councillor and Leader of the Respect Party, Salma Yaqoob; the imam and Chairman of the Muslim Education Centre of Oxford, Dr Taj Hargey; and the journalist and broadcaster, Dame Ann Leslie.
I was personally quite pleased with how the show went. It was nice to see a programme without Anjem and Co. Some good discussions in a very grown up way, apart from that Taj guy(who from anjem school of thought, that if you shout the loudest you be the only one thats get heard). I know its a trend with today youth to want to keep it "real" and alot of youth believe by saying they are British they are somehow selling out. But it far from true. I spend my youth defending the Taliban and their thinking, not realising I wouldn't be able to live 5 minute under their rule.
I think alot of the muslims youth have to start realising that they more british then they think they are and that unlike Anjem and co, British way of life has no conflict with islam. I think Salma mention that western countries are more akin to Muslims Value then most muslims countries and the people who don't think its the case should go and live in a Conservative muslims country for 6 months and see what I mean.
Bullet points lol
I didn't appreciate the bin bag comment.
It was weird to see Muslims so divided, perhaps that's what the show was ultimately meant to prove.
I thought the girl in the audience, head of Oxford ISOC was spoke brilliantly.
Not to be rude or push the blame but a lot of the side topics spoken about (homosexuality and others) were said as though Islam was the only religion that didn't agree. The last time i checked both the Bible and the Torah said the same thing (but of course this wasn't mentioned!)
Jihad of the Nafs (The Struggle of the Soul)
Salma Yaqoob (Y)
Don't think that guy in the audience should've challenged the hijab comment but more the fact that the Taj guy says women can lead prayers.
Urgh - the non-muslim woman in the panel.
I liked the Non-Muslim guy talking about Islamaphobia.
"How many people find fault in what they're reading and the fault is in their own understanding" Al Mutanabbi
Yet to hear it.
What is that quote supposed to mean?
Or shall I ask after listening?
A Non- muslim woman on the panel called the burka a 'bin bag'.
[ Is calling someone a woman, (as above ^ ) rude? ]
"How many people find fault in what they're reading and the fault is in their own understanding" Al Mutanabbi
Yes.
Sounds like she's jealous.
is there any point in watching this video. It's going to the same rubbish about muslims, and the same panel of non expert muslims invited. the so called "moderate" form of islam will be praised by the non muslims, and those muslims who dilute their religion in order to befriend these individuals. What the west calls moderate islam being very different to what moderation means in islam
i mean the bin bag comment, i presume refers to the hijab/jilbab and or niqab? Allah has told us they will never like us until we are like them, and we will never be like them. So i'll keep my bin bag, it looks better than walking around like a steak of meat ready for a good old sunburn and lecherous gazes.
in answer to the title does britain have a problem with muslims...yes it definitely does, and america has an even great hatred. the old ladies over my end seem to have a problem with me, no one else has batted an eye lid except these old ladies. one remarked as if talking to herself or maybe a jinn? who knows "would you look at that what a thing to wear". i didnt say anything because my children notably very inquisitive were with me, they dont know people have issues with us being muslim, they love the religion. i wish they hadnt been with me that day, i mean how dare she comment on my dress i didnt comment on her dress, what right has she got to do that. to tell the truth i am beginning to hate a section of the british community, i wont pretend i like them all. they make no attempts to learn about or respect our faith but every other ethnic community must learn about theirs, the problem is very much on their part.
“O my people! Truly, this life of the world is nothing but a (quick passing) enjoyment, and verily, the hereafter that is the home that will remain forever.” [Ghafir : 39]
+1. I didnt like that Taj guy. He tried to deny that the Quran orders the woman to cover her hair and burned a burka??! But that Leslie woman seemed ignorant on a lot of points imo. BUt about the disciplining ur wife...i read i think as a last resort, u could hit her lightly?? i dunno... :s
"Verily, in the remembrance of Allah, do hearts find rest"
Yeh, I dunno if it's a 'last resort' or not, but yeah I've heard the lightly hitting thing.
"How many people find fault in what they're reading and the fault is in their own understanding" Al Mutanabbi
I think Salma Yaqoob is probably the best person today to have as someone who represents Muslims in the UK. Her views are almost spot on most issues so to say she is not qualified to speak for Muslims is strange. You don't hav eto be a scholar to speak on behalf of Muslims.
Yes Dr Taj Hagey is a sell out as its obvious his 'views' contradict quran n sunnah but you can't say the same about Salma Yaqoob.
The reality is most Muslims in UK dont wear niqab. Yes you should have a right to wear it but its a minoruty who choose to wear it in this country because the majority realise a niqab here does the opposite of its purpose. Here it makes you a target; rather than offering you 'parda' it makes you stick out like a sore throat and make people stare at you.
Thats why scholars like hamza yusuf, nuh keller, abdul hakim murad, salim ghisa and others advice its better not to wear niqab in west especially if it incites hatred towards you/your deen.
Does Britain have a problem with Muslims. With 99% no with the anjum chaudry boyz and their like yes it does. It finds niqab unconfortable but I dont think it has an issue with muslims or teachings of Islam. I think some Muslims are a problem not Islam.
[/quote]
I wont pretend i like them all. they make no attempts to learn about or respect our faith but every other ethnic community must learn about theirs, the problem is very much on their part.[/quote]
You get those sort of people in every community though.
Agreed with Ed's comment.
"How many people find fault in what they're reading and the fault is in their own understanding" Al Mutanabbi
i wish i could agree with you. salma yaqoob is no expert and having a huge debate like this they should have experts on the panel surely, otherwise the debate is empty. i have no problems with salma yaqoob she's well spoken and i actually like her. As for the niqab, i dont think its just on account of the niqab that i get trouble, ive always been made to feel different even when i was wearing hijab without niqab. yes i know i complain sometimes im human but i think the true colours of non believers are revealed when they see a woman in niqab or a man with a beard, its like when someone is drunk they let out what they really think about a person. So me not wearing a niqab wont solve the problem it will just mask their hatred. i wish i was as optimistic as you i would say 80% of them hate us, and maybe 20% are more respectful.
i am aware of those scholars you mentioned but nuh keller for example ironically prefers that women who are visiting him for a personal meeting are wearing niqab, i have heard him say so in one of his audios, which i believe is available on that site called masud. but again he always stresses if women feel they can wear it then there is nothing wrong with this even in western countries, simply that it is obviously easier not to.
yes some muslims are the problem but i think they are in the minority, and unfortunately they are the ones the media like to
concentrate on for obvious reasons.
yes it was an extreme comment, in reply to the extreme word used to describe the hijab dress code "bin bag"? I don;t think so!
“O my people! Truly, this life of the world is nothing but a (quick passing) enjoyment, and verily, the hereafter that is the home that will remain forever.” [Ghafir : 39]
Or it depends on where you live?
Not saying you shouldn't be offended but just talking generally (I mean it's not like the woman's gna see your reply!) the niqab makes people feel uncomfortable because all they can see is the woman's eyes...surely that's understandable :S
It's not like every person who doesn't wear a burka/niqab is dressed half naked so to say it's better than dressing like that don't sound good to me :/
"How many people find fault in what they're reading and the fault is in their own understanding" Al Mutanabbi
why do you have a problem with muslims in your area giving out wrong messages about islam, or did you mean something else?...
“O my people! Truly, this life of the world is nothing but a (quick passing) enjoyment, and verily, the hereafter that is the home that will remain forever.” [Ghafir : 39]
I don't have a problem with anyone really. Personally I don't think I've really faced racism before. Wait there was this one time when me and bunch of mosque girls went into this community event thing, in another area (and we were singing nasheeds
). It was just a bunch of ignorant youth, same goes for some childish girls in school.
And the other day, my friend was telling me about someone who she knows was beat up cuz she was wearing a niqab
But generally I don't think we have a problem here, most people are just used to it.
My point is you get extreme cases everywhere and in certain areas it might be worse depending on if the ethnic minorities/Muslims are the minority.
"How many people find fault in what they're reading and the fault is in their own understanding" Al Mutanabbi
Sometimes debates need to acknowledge the real as opposed to the ideal.
There are Muslims in the UK, and they may not always be ideal Muslims, so we need to represent that community that exists instead of one that we may consider ideal.
So even if Salma Yaqoob, or anyone else for that matter, mentions something we personally dislike, it is not that important as long as it does reprsent the views and actions of real people.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
powersilence what do you mean about woman seeing my reply? i mean i didnt give her a verbal reply because my children were with me i dont want them witnessing hatred people have for the niqab/islam. If you mean expressive reply on my face, well ive very reserved i wouldnt have made a grimacing or angry looking face at her, specially since shes an old lady, i do have respect for the elderly even if its not reciprocated.
you said its more acceptable in your area do you live in a predominantly muslim area? i mean generally speaking since living here i dont get ppl even looking at me once forget twice, i dont know if thats a good thing but at least i dont feel harassed. Ironically the muslims are scattered around the city, there is no "muslim" area as such, least i dont know of it, if there is one.
But the town i grew up in is a different story, i was fine so long as i stayed in the muslim ghetto, if i was in town or a non muslim area i would get hostility and a lot of it. no one would do anything just the hostility was generally felt and seen in their faces.
is the video worth watching or will it just anger me...?
“O my people! Truly, this life of the world is nothing but a (quick passing) enjoyment, and verily, the hereafter that is the home that will remain forever.” [Ghafir : 39]
its a really good debate
alot of valid questions raised and some good answers given
we need to be aware of the issues and need to tackle them and not get angered by them
I haven't watched the show yet but its definitely something on the list for shows I've missed!
The comments about Muslims integrating into society and discussions about the hijaab have just reminded me about an event taking place this summer. The event is going to be similar to the GPU titled "Peace for humanity". The conference is going to be taking place at London's Wembley Arena on 24th of September 2011. With scholars attending from across the globe and plenty of media coverage. I think the event will change the opinions of many Muslims about Islam and change the views of the non-Muslims attending about Islam as the scholars will refer back to the teachings of the Prophet (pbuh) to prove that Islam condemns killing any human being whether they are Muslim or non-Muslim and that Islam is a religion of peace. Tickets are available on this website:
http://www.ticketmaster.co.uk/event/2200462590DA81CD?artistid=1092343&ma...