and a further reminder that later, this day also became known for other events that occurred on it: the martyrdom of Imam Hussain (ra) and most of his (male) family at karbala.

I think the only surviving male was Imam Zayn ul Abidin, who was too ill to fight on that day.

Imam Zayn Ul Abidin was not known for laughter or making merry etc, saying that all the joys had been taken away from him on this day and seeing what he had seen, how could he laugh or enjoy himself?

Ashura is a very holy day in Islam.
Ashura is the day when grandson of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) was massacred by army of Yazid.

Imam Husayn was killed in the desert of Karbala. He sacrifised himself and his family for the love of God and justice. Remembering this day is a great blessing. Those who mourn the grandson of the Prophet are true lovers of Islam. They will go go to Paradise. In life after death everyone else will be affraid. But men and women who wept for Husayn will be reassured.

Hadith books tell us that Prophet himself cried on Ashura long before his grandson was killed. He knew that Husayn would be killed in far distant land.

Traditions of Shia Muslims state that mourners of Imam Husayn will not be scared on Day of Judgement.

The 5th Imam said that smallest tears for Karbala will guarentee Paradise.

The 6th Imam said that all those who mourn Karbala will go to Paradise. He said no person shedding tears for Husayn will be thrown in Hell.

There are many more traditions from the Imams giving good news to Muslims.

Yes, i did it once. It is not mandatory. Its up to you.
Some people do it every year, others do it once or twice in a lifetime. Many dont do it at all.

You take part in it during the holy month. What you do is you book your knives in advance.
When the day of blood comes, you draw your blood.
You take the blades and slash your back to bleed yourself.

Ocean wrote:

And why is it important to BLEED yourself but not let yourself bleed to death?
What does it mark so specifically?
Why do people then walk on burning coal?

I didn't know it was optional, I thought EVERYONE had to do it one way or the other.

I'm sorry I don't know these stuff, just being curious.
My friend's going to Iraq to visit the shrines there, do you know which shrines she may be going to?

well, suicide is not allowed, is it. so people cannot stab themselves. they just do a bit of cutting to draw blood. you cant kill yourself on Ashurah for the love of Husayn.
our blood is for Husayn. it shows our loyalty and love for the holy family of the Prophet (pbuh). walking on coal represents hot desert sand on which grandson of the Prophet was killed and on which his sisters were forced to walk after the killing. People walk on coal to remind themselves of what terrible persecution the family of the Prophet had to go through. People do this to show their love and support for Imam Husayn and the holy family. They are grieving with them.

Shrine in Iraq is one of Imam Husayn, grandson of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh). Visitors go and read Surah Fatiha for all the martyrs of Karbala, and then they beat their chest in grief. this is for love of Imam Husayn. It is a great blessing. Prophet knows who mourns for his grandson on the day he was killed. Women and men have seperate areas where they do their mourning rituals for their holy leaders.

There is also a shrine of Imam Ali in Iraq. People go there to pay their respects and show their alliagence to him.. Imam Ali is the one whom Prophet (pbuh) appointed as his successor after his last farewell pilgrimage.

well, people die all the time, dont they. every day there are accidents. accidents do happen.

Those who happen to die in love of Husayn are themselves martyrs, according to hadith of Prophet.

accidents are not considered as suicide by God. God knows your heart.

Ocean wrote:

Self-inflicted accidents are not suicide?

Not unless the aim was to cause death?

you need to define suicide. taking risk is not suicide.

risk exists in all things we do.

If we go on motorway and have an accident, we did not want to die but did die.
would God see it as a sin of suicide just because there was a risk? i dont think so.

Knowing the statistics of deaths of motorways, is it suicide to take your car on M25 knowing the risks of death? i dont think so.

Therefore, why is risking your life using a car allowed, but using a knife in a ritual of love and grief not allowed?

remember the car is for your own wordly purpose.
the knife is for the grandson of the holy Prophet (pbuh).

We lovers of holy family see the knife as a noble item when compared to the car.
For us risks of knife is far better than the car.

anyway, more people die on the road than on Ashura.
Hardly anyone is killed bleeding themselves for Husayn. It must be a miracle.

any time brother. im here to help in any way i can.

i apologize my sister. you are most welcome to question me about any aspect of my belief or rituals.

Here is Ashura mourning by Lebanese muslims:

http://www.euronews.net/nocomment/2010/12/16/lebanese-shiites-mark-festi...

we have to state clearly that love of imam husayn is part of iman, and that the you cannot love our nabi saw without true love of imam husayn whoi will be the leaders of the shabab of jannah when there will be no old people in jannah ie they will be leaders of all of jannah.

but to inflict harm on one self as is done on many of these mourning ceremonies is wrong.
i dont see the need to do it.
having grown men on the streets of manchester hitting themselves with sticks and blades is an abhorrent site,

allot of sunni muslims are a bit taken aback when they see these things just think what would a young child think?
or what must non-muslims think?

no offence intended to my shia brothers, its just what i think/believe/understand

Malik,

Why do you have the avatar of this person?

because his name is Shia, and Malik is a Shia.

ThE pOwEr Of SiLeNcE wrote:

because his name is Shia, and Malik is a Shia.

OK. It's funny Malik has the picture of a Jewish gent, when some of his comments seem very controversial at times.

Back to the topic.

Malik, as per usual your basis of argument/debate has no foundation.

malik wrote:

hose who mourn the grandson of the Prophet are true lovers of Islam. They will go go to Paradise.

Hadith or any other historical evidence?

At this point I would like to highlight that you Shia Scholars and what they make up does not count.

malik wrote:

Traditions of Shia Muslims state that mourners of Imam Husayn will not be scared on Day of Judgement.

Well at least you say traditions. Again, no evidence of this.

malik wrote:

The 5th Imam said that smallest tears for Karbala will guarentee Paradise.

The 5th Imam said it so it has to be true...

malik wrote:

The 6th Imam said that all those who mourn Karbala will go to Paradise. He said no person shedding tears for Husayn will be thrown in Hell.

Well now the 6th has said it then there's no denying it....

malik wrote:

Those who happen to die in love of Husayn are themselves martyrs

Evidence that death from self-flagellation gets you to paradise?

malik wrote:

We lovers of holy family see the knife as a noble item when compared to the car.
For us risks of knife is far better than the car.

I've got nothing to say to this.

In the court of law if you don't provide proofs you'll get thrown out or into jail... Bring your proofs Malik.

It is well known that criminals often do not accept proofs even before a judge.
When we all arrive at the court, everyone will see the proofs. But by that time, it will be too late for the criminals. As you said, they will be thrown in jail; and we all know God's jail is a pretty hot place.

YouShutup wrote:

Malik, as per usual your basis of argument/debate has no foundation.

malik wrote:

hose who mourn the grandson of the Prophet are true lovers of Islam. They will go go to Paradise.

Hadith or any other historical evidence?

At this point I would like to highlight that you Shia Scholars and what they make up does not count.

malik wrote:

Traditions of Shia Muslims state that mourners of Imam Husayn will not be scared on Day of Judgement.

Well at least you say traditions. Again, no evidence of this.

malik wrote:

The 5th Imam said that smallest tears for Karbala will guarentee Paradise.

The 5th Imam said it so it has to be true...

malik wrote:

The 6th Imam said that all those who mourn Karbala will go to Paradise. He said no person shedding tears for Husayn will be thrown in Hell.

Well now the 6th has said it then there's no denying it....

malik wrote:

Those who happen to die in love of Husayn are themselves martyrs

Evidence that death from self-flagellation gets you to paradise?

why rewrite everything when Youshutup has already written my thoughts down, hence. I quote.

harming your body is not allowed, hence the big debate on smoking (...) so...self-flegellation?! the deliberate intent ("book your knife") to hurt yourself on a particular day...

let's remember that the first event (Remembered) of Ashura is the Saving of Mussa ('alaihissalaam) and the Banu Israeel. Not a sad event. At all...

i dont know ...urgh...i said i wouldnt argue with Malik...urgh...

edit: PS: Youshutup, his avatar picture is so funny, we had a whole discussion about how funny it was.

malik wrote:

It is well known that criminals often do not accept proofs even before a judge.
When we all arrive at the court, everyone will see the proofs. But by that time, it will be too late for the criminals. As you said, they will be thrown in jail; and we all know God's jail is a pretty hot place.

So I'm a criminal? Is this what you imply?

Everyone will see the proofs on that day.... indeed! The question I want answered is why do you believe the things you spew out? It seems you believe blindly and have nothing to back any of your beliefs up.

@ Lilly- I didn't realise there was already a discussion. Did Malik think he was a Shia?

YouShutup wrote:

@ Lilly- I didn't realise there was already a discussion. Did Malik think he was a Shia?

no, no, its what I said

YouShutup wrote:

The question I want answered is why do you believe the things you spew out?

I think the reply to that should have been obvious to any thinking person.
I believe in things which I hold to be true for the same reason
as any intelligent person would hold on to their own beliefs: It convinces them.

YouShutup wrote:

It seems you believe blindly and have nothing to back any of your beliefs up.

That is what the atheists also say to believers in God.

@malik, we have the qur'an and sunnah for our guidance.

These days some of the shias have gone really extreme and adopted positions that even past historic shia scholars considered wrong. Maybe not all, but some have and they seem to be really vocal.

You need to make sure you have not been taken in by the lunatic wing and that you are following the sources you think are correct as opposed to newer sources who pretend that they were the historical ones.

thats a good advice. thank you.

I love the holy Quran and I love the holy Sunnah of our Prophet (pbuh). They are two lights from God.

i dont agree with people who abuse anyone. i know some shia muslims actually swear at Abu Bakr and Umar and Aisha whom they believe were enemies of Ali, the 4th Caliph.

yes, some Sahabas did made mistakes, major mistakes, but still i dont insult them.

malik wrote:

thats a good advice. thank you.

I love the holy Quran and I love the holy Sunnah of our Prophet (pbuh). They are two lights from God.

i dont agree with people who abuse anyone. i know some shia muslims actually swear at Abu Bakr and Umar and Aisha whom they believe were enemies of Ali, the 4th Caliph.

yes, some Sahabas did made mistakes, major mistakes, but still i dont insult them.

">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FSc5B_pFD54]

Hatred of Ali (ra), Hasan (ra), and Hussain (ra) and their family for shia according to their own hadith

1-Nahjul Balagha, Sermon 25

Ali chastises the Shia of Kufa:

“O’ Kufa, if this is your condition that whirlwinds [of deciet] continue blowing through you, then Allah may destroy you...

amen ,amen amen

2-Nahjul Balagha, Sermon 183

Ali says to his Shia at the Battle of Siffin:

“Keep quiet, may Allah make you ugly, O you with broken tooth. Certainly, by Allah, when truth became manifest even then your personality was weak and your voice was loose. But when wrong began to shout loudly you again sprouted up like the horns of a kid.”

"may Allah make you ugly"i.e shia""
amen ,amen ,amen

3-Nahjul Balagha, Sermon 4

Ali says about his Shia:

“I always apprehended from you consequences of treachery and I had seen you through in the garb of the decietful.”

How many times did the Shia betray the Ahlel Bayt on the battlefield? First, they betrayed Ali (رضّى الله عنه) in the Battle of Siffin. Second, they betrayed Hasan (رضّى الله عنه) who refused to even fight Muawiyyah (رضّى الله عنه) after that. Third, they betrayed Hussain’s cousin (Muslim Ibn Aqil) after they swore allegiance on his very hand, and the Shia let the men of Yezid take him away to his execution. Fourth, the Shia betrayed Hussain (رضّى الله عنه) on the battlefield, allowing Yezid’s men to chop him up. Fifth, the Shia betrayed Hussain’s grandson (Zayd ibn Ali ibn Hussain), defecting against him on the battlefield and leading to his death.

4-Nahjul Balagha, Sermon 36

Ali says to his Shia:

“You are a group whose heads are devoid of wit and intelligence. May you have no father! Allah’s woe be to you!”

yes ,they have no father cuz they are sons of mutah.lol

5-Nahjul Balagha, Sermon 39

Ali says about his Shia:

“I am faced with men who do not obey when I order and do not respond when I call them. May you have no father! Woe to you!
amen amen amen

6-Nahjul Balagha, Sermon 126

Ali says to his Shia:

“Certainly you are the most evil of all persons and are those whom Satan has put on his lines and thrown out into his wayless land.”

(at the post above the last one)So Zakir Naik blames the shia and exonerates Yazid? Charming.

Why do you do taqleed to him?

(Do you know the istory of Islam and how Shiaism was originally a political differentiation that eventually became a religious differentiation centuries later?)

You wrote:

(at the post above the last one)So Zakir Naik blames the shia and exonerates Yazid? Charming.

Why do you do taqleed to him?

(Do you know the istory of Islam and how Shiaism was originally a political differentiation that eventually became a religious differentiation centuries later?)

i dont do taqleed on him, its quite obvious why your a sufi, zakir naik is stating here what the scenario is according to shia sources, meaning the false love they show to the sahabas is nothing but a act as according to their own source they are responsible for their deaths.

You dont even know the origin of your own sufism i wonder what your views on shia emergence would be, do i know their existance yes i do know very well, just as well as the emergence of sufis, sufis too were jsut a normal group later became a deviant group.

I do know the origins of Sufism - its from the sunnah. You can get quotes about all the great Imams and scholars from back then talking about it. Have you heard of Zuhd? how about the hadith about there being three parts of Islam - Imaan, Islam and Ihsan?

Instead what you concentrate on is maybe a single figure who may or may not have gone astray and define him as tasawwuf.

You wouldn't hold a jalfrezi to the mercy of a single unqualified chef, so why do you hold this aspect of the sunnah hostage to someones words about a single individual who lived in Spain?

You will notice how even non sufis do the same things, but call it something else.

sufis too were jsut a normal group later became a deviant group.

Wait, weren't you jsut arguing about the deviant beginnings of sufism? *brain explodes*