Am I an 'Infidel'?

hrm... There is already a blog post on this and it may be best to keep all the discussion in one place.

Why were you called in infidel? Do you consider yourself Muslim?

(in that blog post I assumed you to be christian, but I may have just been stupid...)

Salam (peace)

No Muslim is allowed to kill an innocent human being. In the Qur'an, God says:

"If anyone killed a person not in retaliation of murder, or (and) to spread mischief in the land - it would be as if he killed all mankind, and if anyone saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of all mankind" Surah 5, verse 32

Killing an innocent human being, regardless of whether he believes or not, is a major sin. If a Muslim were to kill an innocent, they have committed a sin, which, as God says, as if he killed all mankind. This shows how human beings should respect the sanctity of other human beings. About the question on the actual definition of "infidel", I will research it and get back to you. But don't worry, you're safe!...Islam is a religion of peace.

Salam

Yes - I'm christian, and I'm new to forums and blogs! Sorry to have duplicated myself!
😃

no probs, welcome and make yourself at home.

Salam,

These articles may help you:

http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?c=Article_C&cid=1209357934…

http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?cid=1123996016352&pagename…

🙂

Also, very often people take parts of verses or surahs and decide to interpret themselves, which cannot be done except by scholars. If someone tells you Muslims are allowed to kill all "infidels", this is simply not true. If someone brings you a verse to try and "prove" their point, please post it up and I will find out what context it was revealed in, and who it refers to. Thanks.

Thank you for these articles...

I hope I cause no offence to anyone - this is the body of the text I was sent - which infers that as a christian, I'm actually an infidel...

"Last month I attended my annual training session that's required for maintaining my prison security clearance. During the training session there was a presentation by three speakers representing the Roman Catholic, Protestant and Muslim faiths, who explained each of their beliefs.
I was particularly interested in what the Islamic Imam had to say. The Imam gave a great presentation of the basics of Islam, complete with a video.
After the presentations, time was provided for questions and answers. When it was my turn, I directed my question to the Imam and asked: 'Please, correct me if I'm wrong, but I understand that most Imams and clerics of Islam have declared a holy jihad [Holy war] against the infidels of the world and, that by killing an infidel, (which is a command to all Muslims) they are assured of a place in heaven. If that's the case, can you give me the definition of an infidel?'
There was no disagreement with my statements and, without hesitation, he replied, 'Non-believers!'
I responded, 'So, let me make sure I have this straight. All followers of Allah have been commanded to kill everyone who is not of your faith so they can have a place in heaven. Is that correct?'
The expression on his face changed from one of authority and command to that of 'a little boy who had just been caught with his hand in the cookie jar.'
He sheepishly replied, 'Yes.'
I then stated, 'Well, I have a real problem trying to imagine Pope Benedict commanding all Catholics to kill those of your faith or Dr. Stanley ordering all Protestants to do the same in order to guarantee them a place in heaven!'
The Imam was speechless!
I continued, 'I also have a problem with being your 'friend' when you and your brother clerics are telling your followers to kill me! Let me ask you a question. Would you rather have your Allah, who tells you to kill me in order for you to go to heaven, or my Jesus who tells me to love you because I am going to heaven and He wants you to be there with me?'
You could have heard a pin drop as the Imam remained speechless.
Needless to say, the organizers and promoters of the 'Diversification' training seminar were not happy with this way of dealing with the Islamic Imam and exposing the truth about the Muslims' beliefs."

Should the Imam have corrected the person asking him the questions?

I responded, 'So, let me make sure I have this straight. All followers of Allah have been commanded to kill everyone who is not of your faith so they can have a place in heaven. Is that correct?'
The expression on his face changed from one of authority and command to that of 'a little boy who had just been caught with his hand in the cookie jar.'
He sheepishly replied, 'Yes.'

He should have replied no because that is not the case and never has been. THat "Imam" seems to have got it wrong.

Salam,

Yes it is not true at all, as I said, no Muslim has a right to kill an innocent whatsoever. I just found this:

Summary of the eRumor
A story said to be written by prison minister Rick Mathes describes a confrontation between him and Moslem during a prison training session for those who have clearance to visit the prison.
He challenged the Moslem about whether Islam teaches the killing of infidels and allegedly reduced him to child-like shame.

The Truth
We contacted Rick Mathes, founder of Mission Gate Prison Ministries in Chesterfield, Missouri, and he stands by his story.
There have been some published reports from critics of Mathes' article who say the confrontation did not take place the way he describes and that the Moslem who spoke at the conference was not an Imam, but a prisoner who volunteered to speak as a Moslem.
Rick Mathes says that the man was introduced at the meeting as an Imam and that the story happened as he describes it.

Also this link: http://www.breakthechain.org/exclusives/rickmathes.html

Anyway, even if it was an Imam, he was clearly completely wrong...

Thank you for that 'UniteTheUmmah' - very interesting...

Please could you clarify for me something you wrote - you said 'no Muslim has a right to kill an innocent whatsoever'. How would you define 'an innocent'?

I ask the honest question because I keep hearing reports of Muslims who have turned to Christianity, and then Muslims in their communities capture them and murder them - their offence being their conversion. As these Muslims 'breaking the Law' of the Quran; or are the newly converted Muslims (to Christianity) not innocents?

Salem...

Salam,

Sorry I was looking for articles...I have to check to make sure what I'm saying is right. Regarding changing religions i.e. leaving Islam, I found conflicting views, so God knows best. I am not a scholar so cannot judge between any views. I do not want to speak without knowledge because I am accountable for what I say. About being "innocent", there are some acts in Islam which allow someone to be punished with death by a Muslim ruler/judge, but there are conditions etc. which I am not aware of, and as far as I'm aware, this is in Islamic countries where there is a Muslim ruler but please don't take my word for it. I suggest you ask an imam/scholar about issues of Islamic Law etc. Sorry.

[quote=Rev D]Thank you for that 'UniteTheUmmah' - very interesting...

Please could you clarify for me something you wrote - you said 'no Muslim has a right to kill an innocent whatsoever'. How would you define 'an innocent'?

I ask the honest question because I keep hearing reports of Muslims who have turned to Christianity, and then Muslims in their communities capture them and murder them - their offence being their conversion. As these Muslims 'breaking the Law' of the Quran; or are the newly converted Muslims (to Christianity) not innocents?

Salem...

[/quote]

An innocent, as far as I know is someone who isn't some dangerous anarchist or killer. Even if you take drugs, drink alcohol or do what I might consider wrong, my faith (Islam) forbids me to come and kill you just like that. Even if I disagree with you I have to be tolerant and use my wisdom.
The thing what you've got to understand is that what Muslims or so called "Islamic countries" do, may not be credible or even allowed in Islam. Not everything a guy with a beard says is even a credible interpretation. Sadly, many people fall for that and don't even try and clarify anything, you;re obviously different.
By the way, we're not scholars, but we can tell you what we know and you still should get another opinion.
Now, when it comes to apostasy, leaving you're faith, there IS a difference of opinon amongst scholars, but I think we should let people make their own minds on which opinion is stronger.
Here are three scholars/academics and what they have to say on the matter

Abdal Hakim Murad

The one and only Tariq Ramadan

and Mustafa Ceric

You don't have to read all three, just pick one if you want. The difference between these guys is that they acknowledge and attempt to refute the opposing view, which is ACE!

Salam

Somebody calling himself a priest asked this question:

[quote=Rev D]Hi!
Someone just informed me that according to Islam - I'm an infidel! I'm not an Muslim, but am wanting answers!

Could someone please define for me (with Surah ref's) what an Infidel is?

I'm a little worried, because I was told that - being an infidel - if a Muslim killed me, then that person would be given a place in heaven... which sounds like a pretty big incentive!

Please could someone set my mind at rest!

Cheers![/quote]

This is my reply:

According to most muslims, you are an infidel' and, therefore,
you will burn in Hell, unless, ofcourse, you convert to Islam.

However, according to the Holy Quran, the Book of God,
you believe in Jesus and in his Gospel, and therefore,
you are not an Infidel.

You are one of the "People of the Book".

So, dont worry. You wont be burning in Hell.

You will be in Heaven with good people.

Peace be with you, always.

Omrow

[quote=Rev D]
I responded, 'So, let me make sure I have this straight. All followers of Allah have been commanded to kill everyone who is not of your faith so they can have a place in heaven. Is that correct?'
The expression on his face changed from one of authority and command to that of 'a little boy who had just been caught with his hand in the cookie jar.'
He sheepishly replied, 'Yes.'[/quote]

That's not Islam.

Let me make it real simple. Killing someone on the battlefield is slaughter. It tends to be a moral free zone; two armies turn up, exchange pleasantries and then get stabby. Further, in Islam, you may only go to war with sound morals.

Let's be clear now, if there aren't two armies who are ready to duke it out, there's no battlefield. If one military force isn't duking it out with another military force, there's no battlefield. Random killing is murder. Murder is just as wrong in islam as it is in any other creed or social decleration.

And as for the imam you mentioned, at least he had the decency to look guilty about potentially 'OK-ing' carte blanche murder. BTW do have any idea where he was 'educated'.

Probably in a smelly little shack in some God-forsaken place.

[quote=The Lamp]An innocent, as far as I know is someone who isn't some dangerous anarchist...[/quote]

Why do anarchists get such a bad rep?

Past anarchists have made the world the way it is. Newer anarchists will dream up ways to change the world as it is into potentially something better.

I dislike how people always take the term to mean some shadowy person hell bent on subverting everything. An anarchist is simply someone who is not happy with the status quo.

No an anarchist is someone who believes that laws are bad. We as human beings naturally want/need laws/rules and guidlines.

There are laws. Gravity, hunger, want and death.

They are laws of nature, and another law of human nature is to want/need laws. Which is a criticism of the anarchist doctrine.

[quote=The Lamp]...another law of human nature is to want/need laws...[/quote]

Why? How? Examples?

PS I accept the need for laws and I am not talking absolute anarchism. Everything in this world is relative.