_LoLy_ wrote:

xSmurfy786x wrote:

Islam is indeed a religion.. but religion comes with its own laws darling.

aren't tight laws..:?
and if there are two laws opposite..what do u follow?
country or religion?
in that case i can't follow his religion because there aren't priest or other people who marry us without my 18 years old....

On the whole, they aren't opposite.

In Italy it may be legal to drink alcohol and eat pork, but Muslim law doesn't allow us to do this. So we are not allowed to do it.

If there WAS a law which meant we can't follow our religion, then we wouldn't be allowed to follow it... e.g. if by Italian/British law we HAD to drink alcohol, then we would be forced to move to another country.

But British and Italian laws allows freedom of religion! So there's no problems.

_LoLy_ wrote:

i'm agree..anyway italy accepte u and your religion..

question:...i can be accepted in islam coutry although i'm christian?

i drink alcool and..uhm..i don't eat pork because i don't like it..:D

Yes, you can. I can't talk for all countries, but I am living in Syria at the moment and there are MANY Christians here. They get on very well with the Muslims, there are many churches etc. In Christian areas I think you can buy alcohol (but it is not very good for you or healthy :p)

You don't see problems between Christians and Muslims in Muslim countries... just in Christian countries, where the Muslims feel 'threatened' or something.

Ya'qub wrote:

You don't see problems between Christians and Muslims in Muslim countries... just in Christian countries, where the Muslims feel 'threatened' or something.

That's a strange and thoroughly incorrect generalisation.

J de V wrote:

Ya'qub wrote:

You don't see problems between Christians and Muslims in Muslim countries... just in Christian countries, where the Muslims feel 'threatened' or something.

That's a strange and thoroughly incorrect generalisation.

I can't think of any examples of places that that is not the case. Even in Saudi Arabic the Christians (well, Americans) are treated well.

If people want to convert to Christianity, however, it is of course a different story.

Yep.. agreed.
In Pakistan even, we live in Lahore, and there are churches in my area and many christians living amongst muslims.. theyre all pretty friendly aswell.
yet i do know of a case, of this guy who was muslim and wanted to convert to christianity. and apparently his family stoned him to death? thats what was heard afterwards anyways, and he wasnt seen around after that. his family totally disowned him though.

Ya'qub wrote:

J de V wrote:

Ya'qub wrote:

You don't see problems between Christians and Muslims in Muslim countries... just in Christian countries, where the Muslims feel 'threatened' or something.

That's a strange and thoroughly incorrect generalisation.

I can't think of any examples of places that that is not the case. Even in Saudi Arabic the Christians (well, Americans) are treated well.

If people want to convert to Christianity, however, it is of course a different story.

This is not true in Pakistan.

It used to be - Muslims were too busy and frothing at their mouths killing other muslims (to the point where it was illegal in major cities for two people to sit in a motor cycle... think drive-by shootings at mosques), but since the war in Afghanistan, they take weekend breaks to target other religions too. They're now an all inclusive society.

_LoLy_ wrote:

Dawud wrote:

I can see that sometimes the people here say something that makes you think they are against the situation with your boyfriend.
The reason is simple, in Islam:
Marriage is good but having a boyfriend or girlfriend is bad.
As a Muslim:
I don't think it's good for two people to have a romantic relationship without getting married or being engaged.
I do think it's fine for a Muslim man to marry a Catholic woman.
I hope that explains it easily.

..uhm...and why?..it's only religion or because if you see a girl who has a boyfriend make you think they're together for sex?(or boy with a girlfriend obviously! )

anyway...thanks..i understand..hihih....i feel a little bit ignorant...LoL!xD

No, we're not saying (at least I'm not), that two people in a relationship are only in it for the sex. But, isn't the temptation always there? Plus isn't love blind? SO surely love alone isn't enough. There are things like trust, dialogue and other stuff that are also very important.

The Lamp wrote:

Can it happen per se? Yes. But before that happens then you need to sit down and talk about issues that might arise, such as how to raise your children, what religion would they follow, and who, if anybody, would convert. Normally what tends to happen, but not always, is that one of them either compromises their religion slighlty in practice or converts. But not always. If a Muslim man marries a Christian, he still has to treat her really well.

ehm..if we talk immediately about children, religion and other things, i think we never fall in love naturally because we decide all for procreation...we don't want this...i want children because are fruits of love..not ONLY for procreation!..your religion say that?(sorry i haven't read text yet :? )...
anyway my boyfriend never ask me to convert and i think i'll never do it because i'm churchgoer...
and i never ask him to convert for me...if he wants to convert he must be honest with himself and don't do it for me..if noone wants to convert and if we will have children...i think we'll explain them like a good parents we wanted to marry because we loved,we love and we will love eachother and it's a basis to explain than difference don't stop you but enrich your mind!..and love is more than religion,tradition,language or culture... [/quote]

But aren't you already in love? What's wrong with sitting down and talking about it? I don't think that stops you from falling in love, I think that get's you to understand them more.
By the way, I never said that ANYONE of you should convert, I just said that that normally happens. But at the very least you two should discuss it.

The Lamp wrote:

If a Muslim man marries a Christian, he still has to treat her really well.

i don't understand the meaning of this phrase..what do u mean?..muslim don't treat well girls? :?[/quote]

I mean a guy has an obligation to treat her well, even though she isn't Muslim.

And Naz, isn't EVERYONE born Muslim?

And Yaqub, I think Saudi Arabia is one of the worst examples to use when you talk about how tolerant Islam is towards other religions (No churches). Syria is 50 times better.

The Lamp wrote:

And Naz, isn't EVERYONE born Muslim?

Nope.

Dawud wrote:

The Lamp wrote:

And Naz, isn't EVERYONE born Muslim?

Nope.

Yes they are.

The Lamp wrote:

No, we're not saying (at least I'm not), that two people in a relationship are only in it for the sex.

You may not be, but I am saying that.

You. You would wouldnt you. Well thats you.

Salam

You wrote:

The Lamp wrote:

No, we're not saying (at least I'm not), that
two people in a relationship are only in it for the sex.

You may not be, but I am saying that.

And I am not.

Lamp is right.

Italians get up to many many wonderful things besides the carnal sin.

I am with the Lamp on this one.

Omrow

Why so defensive?

You sound whipped.

I was gonna agree with Dawud because i was thinking about when you give the azaan in a new borns ear but thats to do with them hearing the name of their lord first. The Omrow is right ( I cheated by researching on the internet).

every child is born a Muslim
Believe It or Not: You were Born Muslim!

Salam

Naz. Learn things from the Koran. Its a message from your Lord sent for you.

Get the English translation by Pickthall. He was a good man.

Omrow

@ Lampy and Omrow if being in a relationship isnt about sex then what is it about?

You might as well be friends.

Salam

I have a good relationship with Jesus Christ.

Omrow

Naz* wrote:

every child is born a Muslim

From that link:

Each child is born in a state of "Fitrah"

A child is born "pure". That is generally taken by us to mean "muslim", but is not the full sense of the meaning.

You wrote:

Naz* wrote:

every child is born a Muslim

From that link:

Each child is born in a state of "Fitrah"

A child is born "pure". That is generally taken by us to mean "muslim", but is not the full sense of the meaning.

sh hamza yusuf says a lot of people think that but its not the case.

Noor wrote:

You wrote:

Naz* wrote:

every child is born a Muslim

From that link:

Each child is born in a state of "Fitrah"

A child is born "pure". That is generally taken by us to mean "muslim", but is not the full sense of the meaning.

sh hamza yusuf says a lot of people think that but its not the case.

Do you want to explain that a bit?
Isn't every child born Muslim but then raised into another religion by their family.

Naz* wrote:

@ Lampy and Omrow if being in a relationship isnt about sex then what is it about?

You might as well be friends.

What about, say, someone physically unable to have sex? Or the great many people for whom sex is not all its cracked up to be? Obviously most such people would prefer if they could have sex, but the "friendship" in any relationship is worth a great deal. Healthy relationships are about intimacy and acceptance, not just sex.

Noor wrote:

You wrote:

Naz* wrote:

every child is born a Muslim

From that link:

Each child is born in a state of "Fitrah"

A child is born "pure". That is generally taken by us to mean "muslim", but is not the full sense of the meaning.

sh hamza yusuf says a lot of people think that but its not the case.

I was going to say that Fitrah (meaning true/sound nature) isn't the same as being Muslim. For sure, being a Muslim is a spiritual state which we believe is the fitrah of human beings, but being a Muslim is also embracing a religious identity which is subject to free will.

Noor, do have a link or a CD/book title, I'd be well interested in hearing the wisdom of Shaykh Hamza on this issue. For me though, saying every one is born a Muslim smacks of religious elitism.

_LoLy_ wrote:

Ok Dawud I understand..xD

Naz wrote:

I think now would be a best time to bring up the marriage issue with this Pakistani that your seeing. See where you stand instead of wasting your time on someone who could be out for just a "good time" (if you get my drift). If he does a runner that should tell you something.

i've already told than in italy we can't get married if we don't have 18years old...(i'm 17!)..
i can marry him only if i'm pregnant..and we don't have sex so i'm not pregnant!:D..however..it's the man who ask to get marry..i will never think about ask him to marry..if he wants, he asks me..ahahah!..:D

Know I didnt mean get married now. I know from your previous posts that your underage. What I was trying to get at was that do you know for a fact that he wants to marry you or is it an assumption you have made? If its the latter then you need to clear it up. He might only be using you.

The bit about you not wanting to ask him to marry you is that like a personal thing or a religious thing? If its a personal thing then I dont think there is anything wrong or embarrassing about a women proposing to a man. Prophet Muhammad’s first wife Khadijah (may Allah (swt) be pleased with her) got her friend (I think) to go an ask the Prophet if he would consider marrying her.

Omrow wrote:

Salam

I have a good relationship with Jesus Christ.

Omrow

Thats good to know.
There are many kinds of relationships (mother and daughter, father and son, brother and sister, husband and wife etc) but the one I was talking about was between man and woman (the non Islamic one) not man and man.

Ps I'm 110% sure that ALL the members know your name Omrow so you dont have to keep typing it out every time.

J de V wrote:

What about, say, someone physically unable to have sex?

That would be the exception.

J de V wrote:

Or the great many people for whom sex is not all its cracked up to be? Obviously most such people would prefer if they could have sex, but the "friendship" in any relationship is worth a great deal. Healthy relationships are about intimacy and acceptance, not just sex.

I agree having a relationship is not all about sex BUT it does play a vital role in most relationships. Sex is what distinguishes a girlfriend/boyfriend relationship from a friendship.

If a couple live together for say lets 30 years and they dont have sex then they are just mates who are living together. The odd kiss or grope doesnt mean that your in a boyfriend/girlfriend relationship, it just means your very intimate friends.

You wrote:

Naz* wrote:

every child is born a Muslim

From that link:

Each child is born in a state of "Fitrah"

A child is born "pure". That is generally taken by us to mean "muslim", but is not the full sense of the meaning.

ok forget the Muslim bit for now. We have all descended from Adam (P.B.U.H.)and Eve (May Allah(swt) be pleased with her). God created Adam (P.B.U.H.) and Eve (May Allah(swt) be pleased with her) and then in turn us lot. So when a child is born they are as a result of God. God continues to guide his slaves throughout his/her life but sometimes because of the childs upbringing and him/her constantly being tempted by that stupid shaytaan s/he can no longer hear the voice. Hence why s/he believes there is no such thing as God. But sometimes the child will contemplate and thats when Gods voice becomes stronger in his/her head. That voice is guiding them to do good. Living proof of what i have said is Ya'qub.

Dawud wrote:

Noor wrote:

You wrote:

Naz* wrote:

every child is born a Muslim

From that link:

Each child is born in a state of "Fitrah"

A child is born "pure". That is generally taken by us to mean "muslim", but is not the full sense of the meaning.

sh hamza yusuf says a lot of people think that but its not the case.

I was going to say that Fitrah (meaning true/sound nature) isn't the same as being Muslim. For sure, being a Muslim is a spiritual state which we believe is the fitrah of human beings, but being a Muslim is also embracing a religious identity which is subject to free will.

yeah thats right. i think i may have worded that wrong but that is what sh hamza yusuf says. he briefly mentions it in purification of the heart.