Too lost to be saved...

[quote=wednesday]when you've lost your emaan and taqwa[/quote]

and how would such a thing be possible?

would you say Atheist are damned then? Coz they have no belief.

every sin is forgiven except shirk.

You could only be 'Too Lost' if you dont have Imaan and you're on your deathbed, otherwise theres always the possibility of you being guided.

But what about those who dont believe in anything?

[quote=Young Anonymous Muslimah]You could only be 'Too Lost' if you dont have Imaan and you're on your deathbed, otherwise theres always the possibility of you being guided. [/quote]

Thats true, my mate was telling me about a woman who one day accepted Islam (as her son or daughter had recently accepted Islam too) and then later that day she died.

[quote=Seraphim]But what about those who dont believe in anything?[/quote]

atheist?

She was soo lucky! there was like no time for her to commit sins, OMG! so fortunate. wow!
Masha'Allah.

[quote=Noor][quote=Seraphim]But what about those who dont believe in anything?[/quote]

atheist? [/quote]

yes atheists. wat becomes of them?

[quote=Seraphim][quote=Young Anonymous Muslimah]You could only be 'Too Lost' if you dont have Imaan and you're on your deathbed, otherwise theres always the possibility of you being guided. [/quote]

Thats true, my mate was telling me about a woman who one day accepted Islam (as her son or daughter had recently accepted Islam too) and then later that day she died.[/quote]

the same with many of the sahaba (Allah bless them all), Allah truly guides whom He wills and at any time. its recommended to make dua that we die with eeman because our eeman can be snatched away moments before death.

[quote=Seraphim][quote=Noor][quote=Seraphim]But what about those who dont believe in anything?[/quote]

atheist? [/quote]

yes atheists. wat becomes of them?[/quote]

hell. its simple, if you don't believe in Allah you will not enter jannah.

I once heard that there are such people who wont ever believe bcoz they werent meant to. Which kinda threw me at the time, as it throws the whole free will thing right out of the window.

[quote=wednesday][quote=Seraphim][quote=wednesday]when you've lost your emaan and taqwa[/quote]

and how would such a thing be possible?

would you say Atheist are damned then? Coz they have no belief.[/quote]

thats not what I were referring to ...

If you are a Muslim, not practicing and suddenly loose the will to be even called a Muslim by name cos you don't 'care' about religion ... hence loosing your faith cos you aint bothered and the ability to fulfill the requirement even once in a blue moon ... then perhaps?

Once you get carried away due to your surroundings/environment/crowd ... you are doomed because clearly, they are having a much bigger and fatter influnece on you compared to you being a Muslim and actually finding abt what it means and what it takes to be one!

wow thunder and lightning (COOL!)[/quote]

theres losing your faith and being lost which are completely different. Losing your faith occurs when one does believe and practice but certain bad events happen which make them lose faith. Then there are those that dont really practice. Those ppl havent lost faith but rather are lost in the crowd.

[quote=Seraphim][quote=Noor][quote=Seraphim]But what about those who dont believe in anything?[/quote]

atheist? [/quote]

yes atheists. wat becomes of them?[/quote]

But do atheists really believe there is no god? coz those new posters they're putting on buses say, 'there probably is no god' how does that make sense? aren't they really agnostics then?

[quote=wednesday][quote=Noor][quote=Seraphim][quote=Noor][quote=Seraphim]But what about those who dont believe in anything?[/quote]

atheist? [/quote]

yes atheists. wat becomes of them?[/quote]

hell. its simple, if you don't believe in Allah you will not enter jannah. [/quote]

BUT they will be rewarded of whatever good they did in this life, right?

also, due to their ignorance because of their strong faith being dependant on being an athiest, I don't think it's appropriate for fellow humans to comdemn them or anyone else to HEll... [/quote]

what reward can a person get other than jannah? ignorance is not an excuse for anything. shaykh salim ghisa mentioned this on one of the question and answer shows. the book of Allah clearly states who will enter jannah and jahannam. i aint condemning anyone anywhere just stating the facts.

[quote=Naz][quote=wednesday][quote=Seraphim][quote=wednesday]when you've lost your emaan and taqwa[/quote]

and how would such a thing be possible?

would you say Atheist are damned then? Coz they have no belief.[/quote]

thats not what I were referring to ...

If you are a Muslim, not practicing and suddenly loose the will to be even called a Muslim by name cos you don't 'care' about religion ... hence loosing your faith cos you aint bothered and the ability to fulfill the requirement even once in a blue moon ... then perhaps?

Once you get carried away due to your surroundings/environment/crowd ... you are doomed because clearly, they are having a much bigger and fatter influnece on you compared to you being a Muslim and actually finding abt what it means and what it takes to be one!

wow thunder and lightning (COOL!)[/quote]

theres losing your faith and being lost which are completely different. Losing your faith occurs when one does believe and practice but certain bad events happen which make them lose faith. Then there are those that dont really practice. Those ppl havent lost faith but rather are lost in the crowd.
[/quote]

Okay lets say there is a difference between one loosing their faith and one not ever having faith. In terms of the outcome, wats the difference? The later obviously still go to hell but the ones who eventually lost faith, wat of them?

[quote=Seraphim]I once heard that there are such people who wont ever believe bcoz they werent meant to. Which kinda threw me at the time, as it throws the whole free will thing right out of the window.[/quote]

too much contemplation is dangerous, very dangerous. it can really mess with your eeman, sometimes i wish i didn't know as much as i did, kinda scary. anyway, remember this, Allah swt has created jannah and jahannam and He will fill them both up.

[quote=Seraphim][quote=Naz][quote=wednesday][quote=Seraphim][quote=wednesday]when you've lost your emaan and taqwa[/quote]

and how would such a thing be possible?

would you say Atheist are damned then? Coz they have no belief.[/quote]

thats not what I were referring to ...

If you are a Muslim, not practicing and suddenly loose the will to be even called a Muslim by name cos you don't 'care' about religion ... hence loosing your faith cos you aint bothered and the ability to fulfill the requirement even once in a blue moon ... then perhaps?

Once you get carried away due to your surroundings/environment/crowd ... you are doomed because clearly, they are having a much bigger and fatter influnece on you compared to you being a Muslim and actually finding abt what it means and what it takes to be one!

wow thunder and lightning (COOL!)[/quote]

theres losing your faith and being lost which are completely different. Losing your faith occurs when one does believe and practice but certain bad events happen which make them lose faith. Then there are those that dont really practice. Those ppl havent lost faith but rather are lost in the crowd.
[/quote]

Okay lets say there is a difference between one loosing their faith and one not ever having faith. In terms of the outcome, wats the difference? The later obviously still go to hell but the ones who eventually lost faith, wat of them?[/quote]

if a person has eeman equivalent to a mustard seed will not enter jahannam. hadith

[quote=wednesday]YAM... athiest belief is mainly scietific approach to everything, doesn't matter if it's just a theory, it's science and henec scienctist being kind of their 'gods', if you get what i mean!

If you are lost, the worst thing that you can do is to give up! who has ever been successful just by giving up??

and you loose something, i'm sure you would miss it, everytime some one mentions it, unless it was a delibrate thing... wouldn't it be embarassing for the person to loose the will to carry on? [/quote]

I dont think giving up is something they do intentionally. As noor said; its usually through a series of unfortunate events.

[quote=Seraphim][quote=Naz][quote=wednesday][quote=Seraphim][quote=wednesday]when you've lost your emaan and taqwa[/quote]

and how would such a thing be possible?

would you say Atheist are damned then? Coz they have no belief.[/quote]

thats not what I were referring to ...

If you are a Muslim, not practicing and suddenly loose the will to be even called a Muslim by name cos you don't 'care' about religion ... hence loosing your faith cos you aint bothered and the ability to fulfill the requirement even once in a blue moon ... then perhaps?

Once you get carried away due to your surroundings/environment/crowd ... you are doomed because clearly, they are having a much bigger and fatter influnece on you compared to you being a Muslim and actually finding abt what it means and what it takes to be one!

wow thunder and lightning (COOL!)[/quote]

theres losing your faith and being lost which are completely different. Losing your faith occurs when one does believe and practice but certain bad events happen which make them lose faith. Then there are those that dont really practice. Those ppl havent lost faith but rather are lost in the crowd.
[/quote]

Okay lets say there is a difference between one loosing their faith and one not ever having faith. In terms of the outcome, wats the difference? The later obviously still go to hell but the ones who eventually lost faith, wat of them?[/quote]

Well it can go 2 ways:

1) your previous good deeds can be taken into consideration and if they outweigh the bad deed (not having faith then you get to enter heaven. Very unlikely as not having faith ie denying the existence of God is the biggest unforgiveable sin).

2) Your good deeds are not taken into consideration and thus your doomed to hell.

[quote=Noor][quote=Seraphim]I once heard that there are such people who wont ever believe bcoz they werent meant to. Which kinda threw me at the time, as it throws the whole free will thing right out of the window.[/quote]

too much contemplation is dangerous, very dangerous. it can really mess with your eeman, sometimes i wish i didn't know as much as i did, kinda scary. anyway, remember this, Allah swt has created jannah and jahannam and He will fill them both up. [/quote]

very true.

Ya Allah, grant us true eeman, keep us firm in our conviction, let us die with eeman and keep the whispers of the shaytan away from us. ameen thuma ameen

[quote=Seraphim][quote=wednesday]YAM... athiest belief is mainly scietific approach to everything, doesn't matter if it's just a theory, it's science and henec scienctist being kind of their 'gods', if you get what i mean!

If you are lost, the worst thing that you can do is to give up! who has ever been successful just by giving up??

and you loose something, i'm sure you would miss it, everytime some one mentions it, unless it was a delibrate thing... wouldn't it be embarassing for the person to loose the will to carry on? [/quote]

I dont think giving up is something they do intentionally. As noor said; its usually through a series of unfortunate events.[/quote]

'A series of Unfortunate events'? Nah!! 😉

So, ur saying (wednesday) that all athiests struggled, and then gave up?

And somebody(wednesday) said there was no good discussion going on lol.

[quote=wednesday][quote=Noor][quote=Seraphim][quote=Naz][quote=wednesday][quote=Seraphim][quote=wednesday]when you've lost your emaan and taqwa[/quote]

and how would such a thing be possible?

would you say Atheist are damned then? Coz they have no belief.[/quote]

thats not what I were referring to ...

If you are a Muslim, not practicing and suddenly loose the will to be even called a Muslim by name cos you don't 'care' about religion ... hence loosing your faith cos you aint bothered and the ability to fulfill the requirement even once in a blue moon ... then perhaps?

Once you get carried away due to your surroundings/environment/crowd ... you are doomed because clearly, they are having a much bigger and fatter influnece on you compared to you being a Muslim and actually finding abt what it means and what it takes to be one!

wow thunder and lightning (COOL!)[/quote]

theres losing your faith and being lost which are completely different. Losing your faith occurs when one does believe and practice but certain bad events happen which make them lose faith. Then there are those that dont really practice. Those ppl havent lost faith but rather are lost in the crowd.
[/quote]

Okay lets say there is a difference between one loosing their faith and one not ever having faith. In terms of the outcome, wats the difference? The later obviously still go to hell but the ones who eventually lost faith, wat of them?[/quote]

if a person has eeman equivalent to a mustard seed will not enter jahannam. hadith[/quote]

Thank you Noor, I was just looking for that! ...

Only if the person who had faith utters that he/she is now denying the concept of God's existance or religion being blasphamous (however you spell it!) ... it is then that a canon is heard!

BUT faitha lways comes before actions, and in some cases, actions may lead to faith it's a link that fascinates many people![/quote]

aye, Allah will look at our hearts first then our actions. remember guys, the shaytan is a very clever guy, he was the teacher of the malaikah/angels! he will mess with us big time and he messes with people who are on the right path, not those who have been led astray because they are already on the wrong path.

[quote=Noor]Ya Allah, grant us true eeman, keep us firm in our conviction, let us die with eeman and keep the whispers of the shaytan away from us. ameen thuma ameen[/quote]

ameen!

[quote=Funzo]And somebody(wednesday) said there was no good discussion going on lol.[/quote]

lol, why do you think i started this topic?

[quote=Young Anonymous Muslimah]
'A series of Unfortunate events'? Nah!! 😉
[/quote]

It happens, trust me. Its when a load of crap happens at the same time, and people turn and blame God for it. And say things like how could God allow such a thing etc etc they get mad and as a way of striking back they give up on their faith.

The fear of loss is a path to the darkside.

[quote=wednesday]Noor, But that doesn't mean we can blame the shaiytan for making us disbelieve on the day of judgement![/quote]

definitely not but he can place doubts.

[quote=wednesday]YAM, atheists do struggle, BUT they struggled to grasp the concept of 'how' and 'why' does a God need to exist when clearly, through 'logic' (well the logic taht they can understand) it seem irrational and improportional, due to the existance of science and theories and proving to the eye! Insecurity because they can't see God... do you get it now?

the thing is they want to see the whole picture with the frame and colours and every single deatil rather than standing and exploring/discovering it themselves!!

Noor, But that doesn't mean we can blame the shaiytan for making us disbelieve on the day of judgement!

Funzo, this is going toooooo fast! it's almost a blur and i'm ending up typin my imidiate reactions![/quote]

yeah kinda, but their poster does make them agnostics right? otherwise they would have written 'God Doesn't exist' (Astaghfirullah)

This is definitely going fast, but its good, its like a live discussion! its already gone to 2 pages! :o

[quote=Seraphim][quote=Young Anonymous Muslimah]
'A series of Unfortunate events'? Nah!! 😉
[/quote]

It happens, trust me. Its when a load of crap happens at the same time, and people turn and blame God for it. And say things like how could God allow such a thing etc etc they get mad and as a way of striking back they give up on their faith.[/quote]

🙁

[quote=Seraphim][quote=Young Anonymous Muslimah]
'A series of Unfortunate events'? Nah!! 😉
[/quote]

It happens, trust me. Its when a load of crap happens at the same time, and people turn and blame God for it. And say things like how could God allow such a thing etc etc they get mad and as a way of striking back they give up on their faith.

The fear of loss is a path to the darkside.[/quote]

Soz, i meant the books.
twas a joke. :oops: