mashaALLAH some wise words

RAMADHAN MUBARAK 2 ALL 1NCE AGAIN, first taraweeh today...been confirmed

dua may yaad,
ALLAHHAFIZ

well not for everyone, alot of ppl have got first tarawih tomorrow aswell..
ah well..shame first ramadan is not on same day for everyone.

Yeah tell me about it, (were doing 1st Taraweeh tommorw night).

[size=18][color=green]Ramadhan[/color] [color=yellow]Mubarak!!![/color][/size]

I thin our mosque is doin it 2moro.

I HATE it when everybody does it on a differn day. Its not that hard is it?

What is the reason for the difference.

Is it that moon is always sighted first in Saudi, so Saudis do it according to their sighting. Muslims in countries to the west of Saudi see the moon the next day so they do it according to that sighting. But some people follow Saudi regardless of whether they have seen the moon in their own country or not. :?:

Or is it that different madhabs have different ways of deriving what the shape, position of the moon actually means?

What is the problem?

:?

"irfghan" wrote:

What is the reason for the difference.

Is it that moon is always sighted first in Saudi, so Saudis do it according to their sighting. Muslims in countries to the west of Saudi see the moon the next day so they do it according to that sighting. But some people follow Saudi regardless of whether they have seen the moon in their own country or not. :?:

Or is it that different madhabs have different ways of deriving what the shape, position of the moon actually means?

What is the problem?

:?

apparently most mosques in the U.K. go by Saudi because the moon is not visible at this time of the year in our part of the world. :?

in that case you should follow the closest Muslim country...and that is morrocco and not saudi.

reason for difference:
1. people doing fast tomorrow believe in 'birth' of moon formula
2. ppl doing fast on wednesday follow 'sight of moon with naked eye' formula.

saudi dont start ramadan with sighting moon with naked eye- there have been media reports in Muslim newspapers regarding that fact aswell.

I wrote the following article a few years back, I hope it answers the question on why we have 2 eids and start ramadan on two days:
[b]
Why 2 Eids?[/b]

"Eid is on Tuesday. What d'you mean, we're having our on Wednesday. How come? Hey that's when our mosque is doing it so don't ask me!"

How many of us have had this kind of chat year in year out? Why do we have Eid on two separate days? Why can't the ulema agree to have it on one day? What are the arguments and debates behind the scene? Who's to blame?

The following saying of the Prophet (SAW) should make this clear: "Fast after sighting the moon and end the moon after sighting it. If it is cloudy then complete thirty days of shaban." (Bukhari)

So if it is this easy then why the punch-ups, the heated debates and the great divide in the Muslim community? Well you see, there are two interpretations of this hadith. One group of scholars stick to the literal meaning of "ruyat" (sighting) as meaning "mushahada" observing with the eye.

They say that the moon should be seen with the eye and there is no room for astronomical calculations. The second group say that ruyat should not be taken simply in its literal sense and therefore it is allowed to use astronomical data (using observatories) for sighting the moon.

Now let's see what these groups have to say. The first group of scholars mostly belong to the Deoband School and are represented by their national body Hizb-ul-Ulama. They have gathered fatawas (legal opinions) from Saudi Arabia, India and Pakistan in which they reject the use of astronomical data.

The main fatwas comes from Sheikh Abdullah Bin Baz (Mufti of Saudi Arabia), he clearly states: "there is no room for observatory in moon sighting"

The Mufti of Darul Uloom Deoband says: "I have known for very early on that Saudi Arabia does not follow any calculation or astronomical table in determining the beginning of the month, but they employ the Shariah system of witnessing"

To strengthen their arguments they have gathered 48 eyes witness accounts of moon sighting when according to astronomical data the moon was not capable of being sighted. So basically this group follows the Saudi Arabia decision for moonsighting.

The second group of Scholars (B) is represented by Jamat-e Ahle-sunnah. They argue that "sighting" in the hadith can mean knowledge through astronomical calculaitons. They argue that this is necessary particularly for the Muslims in the northern hemisphere where the sky is often cloudy and seeing the moon by eye is very difficult.

Sheik ul-Hadith, Sheik Miraj-ul-Islam (Minhaj-ul-Quran International University, Lahore) states: "If we take ruyat (sighting) in the hadith to mean knowledge and it can be ascertained from the observatory that the moon has appeared on the horizon but due to cloudy skies or the brightness of the sun it can not be seen by the eye, in that sae the Ulema should accept the astronomical data and announce the beginning of Ramadan"

When is comes to the question "hen can the moon be sighted", the Jamat-e Ahle-Sunnah argue that the moon has to be 16 hours old to be visible. They argue " ..the mere existence of the moon on the horizon is not sufficient, if we are to decide about the moon in light of astronomical data then it must be capable of being sighted.

Because if it is capable of being sighted then somewhere in the world it will be seen. According to our view, if the moon has not been observed by the eye or is not capable of being seen (is less than 16 hours old) then it is wrong to begin the Islamic month"

Group B criticise the Saudi Government and Scholars for creating the divide in the Muslim Ummah. "It is extremely saddening and unfortunate that the Saudi Government and many other eminent scholars who follow this opinion have adopted the beginning of the new month from the birth of the moon, regardless of whether it is capable of being physically see, as the Prophet strongly stipulated.

The (Saudi) argue that the presence of the new moon being on the Horizon for even a few minutes is enough to fulfil the Islamic criteria. However, astronomical data proves that a few minutes in not enough for physical observation with the eye because the rays of the sun will overshadow it"

From what we've heard so far the biggest debate is whether it is allowed to use astronomical data to establish the sighting of the moon. Let's dig out some further arguments to understand this issue further.

The opponents of validity of astronomical data quote some traditional supreme jurists, for example Mullah Ali Qari, a Hanafi jurist who says "..tere is a consensus in the Ummah that calculations of astronomers are unacceptable"

In their defence group B argue that "..many Muslim scholars have permitted the use of information for scientific observatory to establish the sighting of the moon" They quote scholars such as Imam Shafi, Ibn Rushd, Imam Daqiqul Eid, Imam Qurtubi to name just a few.

They also argue that the reason why jurists were sceptical about astronomical data was because in the past their methods were not refined and accurate. But no one can say that about astronomy these days. It is an exact science.

Dr Yousuf al Qardawi, a distinguished contemporary scholar, says ".. since the reason for not accepting astronomical data is not longer valid, it is a requisite to use the calculations and prove the appearance of crescent by astronomical computation."

So, what now? Well the way things are going the only way we will have one Eid in the future is if one of the group compromises and agrees on one formula. Is this likely, to be honest is doesn't look like it. But look on the bright side, with Eid being on to two separate days, we can have an extra day off work/college, so it can't be that bad.

Let's just hope the scholars sort their act out.

http://www.therevival.co.uk/ramadan/2_eids.php

the mosques that follow saudi are keeping their first fast today

the sunni mosques doing it 2moro

I'm fasting tomorrow-so first tarawih tonight

Salam

I love Britain, not Saudi Arabia or Morocco or Egypt.

Therefore, since the moon can ONLY be sighted in Britain on
Wednesday at around sunset, I shall be fasting from Thursday 6 October 2005.

Omrow

deleted

AMEEN

agree with yashmaki

thinks need to get SORTED ere,

i guess it will have to be another EID without my cousins

Salaam

I agree with Sister Yash.

My friend also went through this same issue today, but in a different way.

She’s keeping her first fast tomorrow and all day she had to listen to people asking her why wasn’t she fasting today.

Fasting is supposed to be a private affair; this is why the reward for fasting is greater then other deeds.

It goes against the basics of Adab to ask someone if they are fasting or to condemn them if they’re not.

Wasalaam

Omrow said:

I love Britain, not Saudi Arabia or Morocco or Egypt.

Therefore, since the moon can ONLY be sighted in Britain on
Wednesday at around sunset, I shall be fasting from Thursday 6 October 2005.

slaam bro omrow you sound confused...especially considering the need of you to mention the date, day and YEAR of the day u will start fasting..lol.. first fast is either on tues or wed not thurs...please dont try and be different...
RAMADAN MUBARAK TO EVERYONE SLAAM

Salam

Many people around the world will begin fasting on Thursday.

What an irony that "liberty" lady is not thinking freely.

Perhaps she ought to change her name to silly lady.

Omrow

ramadan mubarak guys

i have heard of people being confused over two days-this is the first time i think a third seperate day for the beg of fasting has popped in the picture

Salaam

according to observatories it is not possible to have ramadan start tuesday, as sighting of new moonj is impossible (sighting of oldmoon may be possible though...)

According to practice, it is not possible to have ramadan start on three different days.

My mosque is doing it on wednesday, but IMO thursday is not more wrong than tuesday and Vice versa...

AT the end of the day, muslims need coordination. I don't care which day it starts on, as long as everyone does it same day.

nope, full moon comes in the MIDDLE of the month.

However, since there WAS a solar eclipse yester day, that means no moon at night... (It's on the wrong side of earth...). A solar eclippse can only happen before the birth of the new moon, and then it needs to age to the stage it can be seen (Hilaal).

Going by that it is surprising people kept fast on tuesday. Or that may be explained by the extra distance between the earth and the moon than normal?

Moon Decision

Saudi Contact: Excuse me guys?
Musa: Who are you?
Saudi Contact: I'm the guy in the community who mysteriously has a lot of links to Saudi.
Imaad: Oh hey man.
Saudi Contact: 'sup 'sup
Musa: So what's the news?
Saudi Contact: Well I got word from the Saudi Government that we're praying on Thursday.
Imaad: WHAT? THAT'S IMPOSSIBLE.
Musa: Cha-ching. Jackpot.
Dr. Nasim: This is scientifically ridiculous. Saudi has zero percent chance of seeing the moon.
Saudi Contact: Not anymore.
Imaad: Well I guess I can't complain. After all... it's Saudi. I'm sure they're doing it for the right reason.
Saudi Contact: Actually it's because it's expensive to do two khutbahs on the same day (Juma) and since we're running out of oil we're trying to cut costs.
Musa: Oh that makes sense.
Imaad: Hmmm I don't agree with this. Since there's two for Thursday and two for Friday we're going to have to do the most logical thing.
Saudi Contact: And what's that?
Imaad: We'll have to flip a coin. Heads for Thursday. Tails for Friday.
Musa: I call Tails!
Imaad: You don't call it you idiot, it's already been set.
Musa: Fine.
Dr. Nasim: God help us all.

*Imaad flips the coin in the air*

Saudi Contact: What is it?
Imaad: Dammit... Heads. Eid on Thursday.
Musa: Cha-ching. Jackpot.
Dr. Nasim: Best two out of three!
Saudi Contact: No it is settled. Eid is settled.
Dr. Nasim: Imaad you fool. You're the president! Do something!
Imaad: I can't... the coin.
Dr. Nasim: This is scientifically stupid.
Saudi Contact: Shut up. Eid on Thursday. It's settled.
Dr. Nasim: But the moon!?
Musa: It's there. Don't you see?
Imaad: That's a jetplane again you idiot.
Saudi Contact: Well you saw something in the sky right? Good enough.
Dr. Nasim: But there is no moon?
Saudi Contact: You want a moon? HUH? Here it is.
...
Dr. Nasim: Oh my
Imaad: Ewwww
Musa: Hahah good one Saudi.

[url=http://maniacmuslim.com/Moon_Decision.html]LINK[/url]

That is wrong to say saudis just make up the moonsighting. It is a sad thing that people write such things.

"Omrow" wrote:

Salam

Many people around the world will begin fasting on Thursday.

What an irony that "liberty" lady is not thinking freely.

Perhaps she ought to change her name to silly lady.

Omrow

slaam
omrow see your all confused again my name is liberty 4 women!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! not men lol....,.unless ur confused about your sexuality too!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! lol
I started fast on wednesday but most people around here did it on tuesday
slaam

Salaam

A wise man once said that the way we behave this month determines how the rest of the year will go. This is why it makes sense to take advantage of every single blessed moment…

This is also the month to take note of the condition of our hearts and souls, for Ramadan is the month in which the devils are locked up….so if despite protection from the Accursed we STILL lie, backbite, hate, possess pride, envy etc etc then this shows how far we have fallen and is a strong manifestation of the conditions of our heart and soul.

A clear enemy is easier to defeat then a slinking one.

Also we should not just renounce food and drink but should also save our eyes, ears, tongues, feet and hands from corruption, and seek refuge from falling into the category of those who derive nothing out of their fast other then hunger.

Wasalaam

"There's hidden sweetness in the stomach's emptiness."
--Rumi

This is because one always feels closer to Allah (swt) when the stomach is empty...

Salam

Come on Muslim Sister. Stop binging around.

Make up your mind and say it properly.

Get it off your chest. Its Ramadan remember.

Omrow

anyone noticed how this year people are very lazy when it comes to fasting

"I have driving test so I cant fast today"

"I have to go to Uni so I cant fast today"

"I have a tummy ache so I cant fast" :roll:

fasting is hard thats a fact-ONLY if a person is very ill/needs medication etc should he/she be exempted

Yeah ive noticed that...

Been tempted myself... but havent given in to it.

I just think such people are weak who use petty excuses like that.

IMO only people who are really ill are exempted... i think theres a few other exceptions aswell... but they're not coming to mind yet.

"MuslimSisLilSis" wrote:

fasting is hard thats a fact-

not really. i mean we have it easy, at least its not summer time!