ORANGO ISLAND, Guinea-Bissau (AP) -- He was 14 when the girl entered his grass-covered hut and placed a plate in front of him containing an ancient recipe.

Like all men on this African isle, Carvadju Jose Nananghe knew exactly what it meant. Refusing was not an option. His heart pounding, he lifted the steaming fish to his lips, agreeing in one bite to marry the girl.

"I had no feelings for her," said Nananghe, now 65. "Then when I ate this meal, it was like lightning. I wanted only her."

In this archipelago of 50 islands of pale blue water off the western rim of Africa, it's women, not men, who choose. They make their proposals public by offering their grooms-to-be a dish of distinctively prepared fish, marinated in red palm oil.

It's the equivalent of a man bending on one knee and offering a woman a diamond ring, except that in one of the world's matriarchal cultures, it's women who do the asking, and once they have, men are powerless to say no.

To have refused, explained the old man remembering the day half a century ago, would have dishonored his family -- and in any case, why would he want to choose his own wife?

"Love comes first into the heart of the woman," explained Nananghe. "Once it's in the woman, only then can it jump into the man."

'Now the world is upside down. Men are running after women'

Standing in the shade of a grass roof, he holds himself upright with the help of a tall spear and explains that when he was young he took extra care to maintain his physique, learned to dance and practiced writing poetry -- all ways in which men can try to attract women, without overtly making the first move

http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/africa/02/01/guinea.marriage.ap/index.html

following the arranged method i was the one who heard about my now husband, i asked my brother to take the proposal forward. usually it's the other way round. Who say's it's a mans world

If you like someone why wait for the man to propose what if he's snapped up by someone else in the mean time, coz of your old fashioned attitudes towards marriage? Who cares what the "norm" is. Khadijah (ra) took her proposal to our prophet via someone else didn't she? It doesn't matter either way, however it is more of the "romantic ideal" for the man to propose, that's the mindset most of us have been socialised into i guess.

I reckon men who get proposed to by women would either be so flattered they'd get a slight chip on their shoulder and go weak at the knees lol. Or they'd be so afraid that this woman, this man eater was coming to possess them, they'd run a mile from commitment

i think girls are more senstive then boys

thats why unlike boys - girls cant hack rejection

guys are used to it :twisted:

looooooool

seriously yash

big up to you and all that

but most girls have way too much pride to put themselves on the line like that

tis an ego thing

with arranged marriage though you're like a third party, you wouldn't have to be physically present. So if you were rejected no face to lose, your disappoint /hurt would not be seen. That makes things easier. I did think of rejection but mostly i thght he won't say no or if he does his bad loss, you need to be a bit sure of yourself in these things otherwise u may as well take anti depressents now!

I like that idea like with the food and everything.

Jayda you could have brought me a chocolate cake and then I would have decided, based on the cake, if you were marriageable.

Smart people those islanders.

I don’t know. I suppose strong cultural/traditional norms have instilled in girls that this isn’t the way it’s supposed to be done.

I can’t help but think….if he hasn’t asked you and you have to make the move, doesn’t that imply that he isn’t even into you? Guys don’t usually hesitate when it comes to stuff like this.

"MuslimSister" wrote:

I can’t help but think….if he hasn’t asked you and you have to make the move, doesn’t that imply that he isn’t even into you? Guys don’t usually hesitate when it comes to stuff like this.

Thats what we want you to think... truth be told we're just as clueless as everyone else... but in the end some1 has to make the move and as you've said that usually falls to the guy having to swallow his pride and say something.

Some guys are so shy they don't even think about it, an excuse just seems a million times more natural than making a move. (I think of this great pre-war opera by Gian Carlo Menotti - who died shortly before New Year's aged 95; Baruch Dayan Emet - called The Old Maid And The Thief, and probably the best aria has Laetitia, the old maid's nurse, singing about her love for this extremely suspect character Bob, "What a curse for a woman is a timid man, he has had plenty of chances but he makes no advances.")

"Mr Honey's Day Out" wrote:

Some guys are so shy they don't even think about it, an excuse just seems a million times more natural than making a move. (I think of this great pre-war opera by Gian Carlo Menotti - who died shortly before New Year's aged 95; Baruch Dayan Emet - called The Old Maid And The Thief, and probably the best aria has Laetitia, the old maid's nurse, singing about her love for this extremely suspect character Bob, "What a curse for a woman is a timid man, he has had plenty of chances but he makes no advances.")

It depends on the person. Some girls are SO shy, that like Mr Honey's Day Out said" they don't even think about it", and could probably never do it. Some girls have a lot more guts and (maybe go against societal norms!) and just ask! Maybe like Khadija ul-Kubra (ra) - a great woman of strength, intelligence and independance, who recognised something amazing when she saw it, and took it..

I feel though, that if a person sees a beautiful golden opportunity in front of them, they would only regret it later if they didnt pursue it when they had the chance, right?

Also, (i hope im not being stereotypical/discriminatory/wrong even!), but i also feel like it depends on your race.. Asian folks (from my sweet humble observations!) tend to be more hesitant to ask - female (or male) - probably stare at the person from a distance, contemplating! :PP, whereas arabs or persians, etc, would be more forthcoming about it..??

"Mr Honey's Day Out" wrote:

Some guys are so shy they don't even think about it, an excuse just seems a million times more natural than making a move. (I think of this great pre-war opera by Gian Carlo Menotti - who died shortly before New Year's aged 95; Baruch Dayan Emet - called The Old Maid And The Thief, and probably the best aria has Laetitia, the old maid's nurse, singing about her love for this extremely suspect character Bob, "What a curse for a woman is a timid man, he has had plenty of chances but he makes no advances.")

IMO guys shouldn’t be timid. After all they’re the ones who have to take charge of the household, sort out mortgages, bills and basically chase up people who mess their family about.

I used to have a serious problem with shyness, so much that the idea of public speaking used to make me ill…but cos I chose to pursue a career where I’m regularly in front of an audience of children, parents and University professors etc….I’ve had to somewhat go against my nature in order to succeed.

Point being, guys more so than girls cant be timid, and if they are, they need to fake confidence.

"MuslimSister" wrote:

"Mr Honey's Day Out" wrote:

Some guys are so shy they don't even think about it, an excuse just seems a million times more natural than making a move. (I think of this great pre-war opera by Gian Carlo Menotti - who died shortly before New Year's aged 95; Baruch Dayan Emet - called The Old Maid And The Thief, and probably the best aria has Laetitia, the old maid's nurse, singing about her love for this extremely suspect character Bob, "What a curse for a woman is a timid man, he has had plenty of chances but he makes no advances.")

IMO guys shouldn’t be timid. After all they’re the ones who have to take charge of the household, sort out mortgages, bills and basically chase up people who mess their family about.

I used to have a serious problem with shyness, so much that the idea of public speaking used to make me ill…but cos I chose to pursue a career where I’m regularly in front of an audience of children, parents and University professors etc….I’ve had to somewhat go against my nature in order to succeed.

Point being, guys more so than girls cant be timid, and if they are, they need to fake confidence.

Its not as simple as that.

Doing a talk in front of people is childs play but proposing marriage is a whole other ball game that will affect the rest of your life.

Men shud act like men. and not little sissy boys :roll:

"MuslimSisLilSis" wrote:

Men shud act like men. and not little sissy boys :roll:

And ladies shud act lady-like... not material obsessed cows.

"Seraphim" wrote:

"MuslimSisLilSis" wrote:

Men shud act like men. and not little sissy boys :roll:

And ladies shud act lady-like... not material obsessed cows.

oi not all women are like that. Way I see it is if you earn ur own money and u have enough to be material obsessed then so be it. The man should provide and the money the girl earns she can do what she wants with it!

I don't think i'd ever have the guts to propose to a guy unless i knew he wanted to marry me lol. It all comes down to confidence, just get it out the way, don't ponder over it. Propose when he leasts expects it, he will say yes in shock, men are d.umb that way

Of course guys shouldn't be timid.

Just sometimes we are, a bit. :oops:

"Mr Honey's Day Out" wrote:

Of course guys shouldn't be timid.

Just sometimes we are, a bit. :oops:

at least ur man enough to admit it. instead of getting all defensive.

you'l go far in life.

"Angel" wrote:

Propose when he leasts expects it, he will say yes in shock, men are d.umb that way

and some are just sissy boys :twisted:

If you have the confidence in yourself then asking shouldnt really be a problem, i would think.. (ie confidence that you as a person are, like loreal, worth it! ) Ask yourself what reasons a guy/girl would refuse you as a spouse, and work to improve those qualities.. If you were a guy/girl, would YOU marry yourself?? What could you offer to a potential spouse? What qualities in you make you special?

P.S. this reminds me, there is a book (recommended by Shaykh Nuh Ha Mim Keller) explaining what the ideal wife should be like and work towards.. very interesting reading indeed! (cant for the foggiest remember what its called though, ill try an find it again)

I admire and respect any guy who has the guts to propose to a girl. I could never ever propose to a guy, so I'm very glad the norm in our culture/society is for the male to propose. I do sympathise with the male species in that regard. However it is just one tough thing, whereas us girls have a million to endure. No seriously, I do feel sorry for you guys, lol.

About girls proposing, good on her if she has the guts. My mum would have a heart attack if I did anything of the sort.

"Imaani" wrote:

About girls proposing, good on her if she has the guts. My mum would have a heart attack if I did anything of the sort.

I dont think thats how it works... your supposed to tell someone (usually your parents) that you wanna marry 'x' and then they go sort it out. It dont involve you getting down on one knee....

Lol, I know - I was talking about even doing that.

I know a couple of sob stories where the guy never opened his mouth and the girl ended up marrying someone else...

"MuslimSister" wrote:

I know a couple of sob stories where the guy never opened his mouth and the girl ended up marrying someone else...

yep i could write an entire book on it.

And i'll tell you guys what i tell all of them: IF you want to marry her but not just yet... atleast stake your claim fool and get married when your ready. That way her family know your interested but you gotta do 'x' first... (get a job... graduate etc).

"Imaani" wrote:

I do sympathise with the male species in that regard. .

LOL @ species

BTW this thread aint even applicable to asian mummy boys

as most of them hide behind their mummys and get them to do all the work :twisted:

"MuslimSisLilSis" wrote:

BTW this thread aint even applicable to asian mummy boys

as most of them hide behind their mummys and get them to do all the work :twisted:

Ofcourse not... its about women with guts proposing to men

Well... I guess this is just a cultural thing... in the West men are respectworthy if they are strong and decisive. In the good old days men would just talk to the father and basically buy the girl... I guess that developed into asking her...

Whatever, anyway I see no reason why it should be considered immorral (that can't possibly be the correct spelling), a little odd from a cultural standpoint but yea... right... carry on.

Im not sure correctness plays into it... as long as it works. Who care?

i don't see what its got to do with guts when it comes to either boys or girls 'proposing'. because in asian culture neither of them have to propose, the parents do everything! all you guys have to do is meet and decide. its the norm for the boy's FAMILY i.e. parents to send the proposal to the girl's FAMILY, big deal if it happens the other way around, the boy and girl don't have to face eachother at that point anyway. so whats the issue? i can see in a love marriage context it would demand guts for a girl to propose to the guy coz she would literally be doing it herself, but in arranged marriages the situation is different...