Salaam
Schools have Ofsted.
Should Mosques have something similar? SOmething to make sure they function as needed?
WHat should the criteria be?
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Standard of wudhu facilities for one thing.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
i believe something like this has been set up by the BMF and MCB...
well there should be one definitely
this article i wrote in the last issue of the revival could be a start:
http://www.therevival.co.uk/magazine/jan2006/what_every_mosque_should_do...
every mosques needs rules, regulations, standards, targets, records, achievements..... and those who dont perform should be given support, guidance... then those in charge should be removed.
How many of the 'Masjid critics' are involved in their Masjid or in a position to implement these radical changes you speak off?
everyone should be a masjid critic as long as it is constructive criticism...
every community has people who can implement the basics that are needed and that are missing today in alot of mosques.
alot of active and capable people are not involved with their mosques because of politics, because feedback and criticism is not tolerated, cos some imams are lazy and not fit to lead and it puts ppl off, cos some imams dont practise what they preach and mainly because alot of people are not made welcome or seen as outsiders....
we dont need committe sympathisers or imams puppets who dont speak out when it is obvious changes are needed, improvements required to make sure our mosques cater for our needs today.
A lovely post, but none of my question have been answered. Let me be more blunt are you involved with your Masjid, are you personally trying to bring about these changes?
If so, share you're story......
your questions are answered if you read carefully
but if you insist:
i was involved with my mosque for many years....
i then was heavily involved with an islamic centre for many years
i have organised talks, study circles, islamic courses and other events in several mosques and centres in oldham...
i have ran live discussions shows on radio for about 7 years now in oldham, rochdale and manchester
i have read, written, spoken about the issues regarding mosques and imams for many years now
i have worked and discussed with ulema about these issues...
so when i rant and rave about these issues, believe me i know what im talking about...
there are hundreds of ppl better educated and equipped than me who have great ideas and can help implement those ideas in their local mosques...
so pls, dont have a go at ppl when they ask for improvements an dchanges in mosques or with imams...this our right and duty...
mashaALLAH Shazan bruv good posts.
Personally I think people who are arrogant towards the Ulama need to be sorted out. The Ulama are the heirs to the Prophets and should be honoured.
And true some masaajid may not be doing anything but personally from the masaajid that I frequent they are doing a lot fo work for deen. If people dont want to come to the masjid to hear the words of ALLAH and His Rasul salallahu alayhiw a sallam then thats not the mosques fault - its the peoples.
Ya ALLAH Madad.
Haq Chaar Yaar
Hence there needs to be some ratring of mosques, to who which ones are good and working, and which ones need more attention.
When a mosque is operational, its not always obvious what can be done. At times it takes an impartial, outsider view to see the potential.
And not all mosques have 'ulema' in them.
Unfortunately not always the case. And even if tis the people's fault, the mosque should play a role to engagte those people, to make them want to go to mosque.
Try not being elitist.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
Actually its those who think they need to engaged and brought into the masjid who suffer from elitism. We need the masaajid, they dont need us.
If anyone here or anywhere in the world thinks they are doing the religion and the masaajid a favour by engaging in them then he is deluding none save his own soul. We need these pure places, we need the Ulama - if a masjid is offering classes for the children and weekly lessons for everyone else and no-one turns up that aint the fault of any1 except the muslims who dont go - simple as that.
We shouldnt try shifting the blame from the sinners onto the mosques. If WE dont go and populate the masaajid we will be accountable.
And also just because no-one goes to a certain mosque doesnt mean its not doing its duty. The saying "you can lead a horse to water but you cant make it drink" comes to mind. Some masaajid I have been to are mashaALLAH soo amazing and very few attend - that aint the mosques fault. If the people in authority are fulfilling their duties and inspite of that the muslim public feel its better to dance in the clubs and drink in the pubs then how can the mosque authorities which are fulfilling their functoin be held responsible.
As for those authorities where nothing is happening - then for definite things need to change there.
Ya ALLAH Madad.
Haq Chaar Yaar
well you should make sure that you do lead the horse to the water...
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
inshaALLAH
Ya ALLAH Madad.
Haq Chaar Yaar
My Mosque has a class which was led by a scholar for the youth but hardly any youth would attend cos they couldnt understand the scholars English...he solved that problem by inviting an British born Imam to lead the class instead, now the class is full of regular students.
Another top scholar I know agreed to go back to college to brush up on his English in order to undertand and communicate with the youth and know where they're coming from....today, his lectures/programmes are packed out with youth.
I have the utmost respect for the humble Imams/scholars who are more then open to suggestions for improvement.
Why is there even an issue of having some standards organisation to see they are doping their job properly?
Its not as if there have not been enough scandals already.
There are good scholars out there. There are also alot of bad people out there. You need some form of monitoring keeping out the bad, keeping in the good.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
I think most mosques now have a mix of english speaking and urdu/arabic/bengali etc speaking Ulama.
Literally every masjid that I go to now they have both types of ulama alhamdulillah. Maybe at other mosques they dont - but I can only comment from my experience.
As an example the masjid/madrassah that I go to - the Head Ustad hafizahullah studied here so He understands the situation very well mashaALLAH.
And whats wrong with having someone to monitor? Well depends on which angle its taken innit. When you put it about the dodgy devils who abuse people then for sure I support the idea - no two ways abt it. BUT what worries me is what about those mosques which are legit - it seems disrespectful to have some secular body go in and start monitorring Ulama - doesnt sit right with me.
tricky situation.
And finally - it seems to spying type - if a Mawlana says one thing outta line then thats it the government forces go in and cause havoc. :evil:
Ya ALLAH Madad.
Haq Chaar Yaar
Firstly let me make clear, I’m not having a go at you or anyone else, quite the contrary brother, Alhamdulilah you have engaged with your masjid and may you inspire others to follow in your footsteps.
The point of my message was to highlight those who are willing to speak out against wrongs but not act to change it. woe to them
The elders who have built the Mosque have secured their abode in Paradise-MarshAllah. I’ve heard of storeis from friends; that Masjid’s in Turkey are closed because know one attends salaat. Allah forbid shouldn’t allow our Masjids to become like this. And Muslim youth of today must take pride in their local Masjid- I don’t entirely believe stories which often portray corrupt committee members- maybe in some cases but not all, perhaps it's the lack of interests in the deen form shown from the youth.
I can give you example of Masjid that are soild in their foundation and truly serve the local community well. My Jamaat is Tabalighi and there’s no shortage of young brothers awake before fajr- hovering and cleaning the Masjid.
I agree that the subcontinent mentality of our Masjid must be removed. And often their isn’t enough reorganisation for the good work that many Masjid across the UK do, why do we often overlook the good and only see the wrongs? That is one impression I get from MPAC, for instance.
Let's disuses how to bring about change. Anyone?
my local mosque imam doesnt speak english
and i know LOADS of mosques that dont have facilities for women
nowt wrong with appointing people to check if they're doing their job properly
if they dont have anything to hide then i dont see why it shud be an issue
mashaALLAH excellent post bruv.
Just one thing - there is no jama'at called tablighi
. Thats a label added by others - alhamdulillah yr Ahlus Sunnah wal Jama'ah
Personally I think you have to start at the bottom. No-one goes into a company and is made a GM, no1 goes and becomes a hafidh before being a talib. Why do we think we have a right to be leaders in the masjid? Respect and responsibility is earned - not demanded.
From my experience before going in and demanding changes we ourselves have to be engaged with the masjid. We have to serve the masjid - that means cleaning it, maintaining it, sitting there, frequenting it etc.
When the people in authority see a person has love for the masjid and actually frequents it and is attached to it then slowly slowly if he is sincere - ALLAH Himself grants him responsibilities and respect from the people in authority.
So basically - ask what your doing FOR the masjid rather than what you can change.
Thats my tuppence worth.
Oh and whatever you do - respect the Ulama.
Ya ALLAH Madad.
Haq Chaar Yaar
English language barrier hasn’t deterred many African and European brothers in large groups from staying behind for taleem or bayaans, listen to them in Urdu and then await for a brother to translate it, I ask one brother, does this bother you his reply was "knowledge has no language".
I don’t see much steps being taken to train Imam to speak English, and the ones that can speak English are often criticise for having broken English seems like people are just looking to undermine pious people. As med said have respect for the ulema :). If the Imam is not sincere in his salaat then the congregation prayer wont be accepted!
I meet a brother from Jamia Masjid Zain ul Abadeen in Markaz only last week, he was collecting zakat, sadaqa for Kashmir and Afghanistan. Such a sincere brother, he couldn’t speak a word of English, however that didn’t stop the non urdu speakers from understanding his pleas or the beautiful dua’s he recited for us. Allah truly opened our hearts on that night.
Eloquent said akhi :), I’ve been reading to many deviants dogma, there lame attemps in trying to undermining the work of Tablighi
i cant comment further. Im on parole :twisted:
Ya ALLAH Madad.
Haq Chaar Yaar
Eloquently said Akhi...you seem to be on a role.
Gentleness and kindness were never a part of anything except that it made it beautiful, and harshness was never a part of anything except that it made it ugly.
Through cheating, stealing, and lying, one may get required results but finally one becomes
You misunderstand the point of inspections. They are not to record everysingle word.
But to judge the overall quality. See if the teachers can teach. If the kids are actually getting an education. See what facilities are provided.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
after reading meds points its best if i remain silent....
a few words mate:
.... it is duty of mosque to cater for needs of the community, not just have a study circle , a bayaaaan , a class and thats it. the mosque and imam should cater for EVERY need from islamic entertainment, resolving personal issues, media training, promotion of political action, making sure mosque has a website, catering for women, tackling extremism and terrorism etc ....
unfortunately alot of mosques dont do that... so no one is against ulema or the mosques...but if they do not do what the Prophet
did which was to cater for the needs of the community then advice, constructive criticism and accountability is important...
some people just worship their mosque and imam...they cant tolerate any feedback or crtitcism... they think its directed at them or their mosque...
some people see something is wrong and recognise it, and want to do something about it
some people dont even realise that something is wrong even after they see and experience it....
of course alot of mosques are doing fantastic...at the same time alot of them are not...but according to some people its disrespectful to suggest that mosques need to improve and do more for the community.... ah well.
That sounds similar to the concept of the "mega-church" in some evangelical denominations. That's one (and probably the only one) thing I find intelligent on their part. If you keep people active in church, by creating a culture in which they are always there for one reason or another, it becomes an extension of the family - hopefully close enough that they come to the Church or their pastor before they go to drugs alcohol and crime.
Am I mistaken in saying that the TJs do a lot of this kind of work? Maintaining standards and trying to focus on building communities?
What happens if Masjid failed inspections and then failed again to meet required exceptions, is anyone suggesting closing down Masjid’s?
If anyone her perceives that some Masjids are failing then we all should take reasonability and never should have allowed it to disintegrate, our our negligence will only allow the weeds to breed
Tableeghul Jam'aat saved Islam in fiji.
It is a method of getting people to be motivated and practise Islam, and Alhamdulillah, the brothers do a good job.[/quote]
No, you just need ratings. Give them a number of stars based on how they perform, with some guidelines on how to improve.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
Just one other thing to add.
If you are a scholar, no matter how big, it does not mean you will be an effective teacher. diferent vocations. Both need training. One to become a scholar which the person has taken, and a second of how to teach effectively.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
I’m not entirely convinced of having a body of Masjids watchdog, my confusion is how much influence will they have in bring about changes to poor performing Mosque.
And would low ratings discourage anyone from attending that Masjid?
On IslamicFinder.org (may be the wrong site) had a directory of most Masjid listed in the UK, with readers review covering topics such as wadu facilities, capacity, language of Khutbah, pictures of the Masjids, etc… (Does anyone know this site I’m talking about?)
:?:
Star ratings for masaajid?
Innaa lillahi wa innaaa ilayhi raaji'oon.
If any1 cant see the darkness in such a thing then nothing I say will be of significance.
No matter how unfacilitated a masjid is - it is the House of ALLAH and hence full stars. We should be grateful that Rabbul Izzat allows us non-entities into the Holy Sanctities.
This is a matter of arrogance to start rating masaajid and its a corruption from a consumer society - far removed from our holy roots.
Ya ALLAH Madad.
Haq Chaar Yaar
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