the non muslims are not the "enemy" :roll:

it is lame how many people percive them as such

lol- I just done a presentation similar to this in uni

here is a brief summary and conclusion

Since the july 7 attacks crimes agaisnt muslims have increased dramatically, pakistani and bangladeshi vommunities are the most likely to suffer from crime and racial abuse according to latest police statistics, e.g. in london attacks have increased by 600% on muslims. In addition the media hysteria agaisnt the muslim community has created a greater sense of islamophobia. The bnp has also used this to make polital capital and argued islam is not compatible with british way of life. Furthermore heavy handed policing and unfair laws have targeted muslims.
As a result muslim communitys feel threathened, ostracised and isolated.

fair policing, responsible reporting and honest politics will be good for the entire society.To beat extremism and terrorism britain needs the full co-operation of its muslim communities and that will only happen when muslim communities feel fullyaccepted as a valued part of british life.

Building bridges requires good a foundation to build on.

If we can find a good foundation i.e. ettiqutes of Islam. Then we're well on the way.

Its essential to build good relationships with ones neighbours especially when your in a foreign land. Good relationships lead to better understanding, understanding leads to acceptance.

And acceptance leads to converting them all into Muslims...

If you are wise you build bridges automatically. That is because you live here among your neighbours, we share and build society together, to them your faith is less important than, say if you have a healthcare or civic position, that you do your job respectfully and properly, or even more generally that you are respectful and facilitate a fulfilling or at least an easy life for others, which just means not making trouble. The bridges only come into it when you see not all your brethren have this approach. Whether this approach is beneficial to Islam is really a pretty malicious question (not that I am ascribing conscious malice to anyone here), raising the prospect that if being a good citizen will not benefit Islam - whatever Islam is then taken to mean - it is acceptable to eschew your neighbour. Ideally there would be no seperation, no bridges, and the means being more important than the ends, it would be better to be constructive and honest WITH EVERYONE than to have an ulterior agenda for everything. People who reserve openness and honesty for their own can burn in hell. :oops:

Quote:

And acceptance leads to converting them all into Muslims...

lol. No point in my expressing a response to that I'm sure.

"TheRevivalEditor" wrote:

salaam

[b]Building bridges between different communities and faiths[/b]

is this important here in the UK- why?
does it achieve anything? what?
how do we build bridges between muslims and non muslims ?
is this all part of dawah?
who's job is it to do this? ours?
why not hate the non muslims? they hate us dont they?
arent they enemies of Islam?
has anyone here tried to build bridges with other faiths and communities?
isnt this our main role as muslims in the Uk?
isnt this the best way to guve good image of islam?
isnt this how we can all be walking, talking adverts of islam?

please discuss....
wasalaam

Hey heres a tip.
Dont ask so may questions at the start of one thread as it just confuses ppl and then they can't give a proper answer and then they don't write anythin!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I think you want us to like the Kafer and no ways that happening. Some of them are okay but then I feel sorry that they will alway burn in hell, anyway tough thats the way it is!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:roll:

i never said YOU consider the non muslims the "enemy"

i said its lame how SOME people percive them as such

sis

tell the palestinian people that the non-muslims are not the enemy, tell them the same people who took their country , killed and jailed their families, robbed their houses, destroyed their livelihoods are not their enemies.

You can also tell the chechnyans that the same non-muslim russains who destroy their houses, rape their sisters , kill their sons , jail their fathers, are not their enemy, whilst your at it tell the iraqis aswell.

You could also explain to them how you consider them to be lame evil evil evil evil evil evil evil evil

RAF786 is a vile propagandist.

:!:

I will learn a lot by how people respond to him.

"RAF786" wrote:

sis

tell the palestinian people that the non-muslims are not the enemy, tell them the same people who took their country , killed and jailed their families, robbed their houses, destroyed their livelihoods are not their enemies.

You can also tell the chechnyans that the same non-muslim russains who destroy their houses, rape their sisters , kill their sons , jail their fathers, are not their enemy, whilst your at it tell the iraqis aswell.

You could also explain to them how you consider them to be lame :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:

i will

right after i tell the old, frail, sick sweet non Muslim lady who lives opposite me how cos she's a non muslims she's the "enemy" :roll:

i understand where ur coming frm

however-just because Bin laden is an extremist and happens to be a Muslim

that dont mean all muslims are bad

same way

just cos SOME non muslisms occupy muslim lands

that doesnt mean that ALL non muslims are the enemy

sis

i do not consider the non-muslims in britain as our enemy, they give us education, protection, care for us, we live in their country we should be grateful and live with them harmoniously.

But i consider the non-muslims who kill our fellow muslim brothers and sisters and take our land as enemies

and 100 man how am i a propagandist , i have just told you truths , i have not twisted nothing or made lies like the media, i am not distorting information to brainwash people

SO 100MAN HOW THE HECK AM I AN PROPAGANDIST-EXPLAIN

You just are. Noone talks to me like that, I'm afraid, and gets what they want.

"100man" wrote:

You just are. Noone talks to me like that, I'm afraid, and gets what they want.

you are not making sense to me

how can i JUST ba a propagandist, accept that you made an unjustifiable comment and all is forgiven

why are you afraid ?

'gets what they want' ? ?

PLEASE ELABORATE

Yes, of course I can elaborate. Nobody in screaming CAPS can tell me EXPLAIN, certainly not someone with a war mentality, and expect that I will bother. Additionally if they try to be clever with reinterpreting a standard turn of phrase they earn my distrust. More a fact of life than a rule, habibi.

btw my comment that you are a vile propagandist is not unforgiveable, but in any event I stand by it, I do not want to earn your forgiveness. I have read some intelligent things you have written, and I am pretty sure you can analyse your own posts to demonstrate for yourself how I can make such an assertion. I do not suggest that it is intrinsic, but you would have to humble yourself a moment and wonder whether in fact you are really capable of just being nasty without thinking. I say you are, I say we all are, and that is how you are being.

i do not intend to be nasty to anyone

but i find the fact that you accusing me of being propangdist when i am clearly stating thruths as wrong, in turn you are the one who is being propagandist

I also feel you have a lack of sympathy, islamic unity and sensitivity to those people i have metioned as suffering and being prosecuted by non-muslims, unless your non-muslim which is then understandable

I am non-Muslim. You know that. The pretense of not knowing is a good example of you being a vile propagandist.

You have also made it known on another thread that you take issue with some posters here and opt to be strategic. OK. But ask me who my enemies are...

Vile, lying, nasty.

i genuinly did not know you were non-muslim

this explains your lack of sympathy for suffering muslims
but im intrigued as a non-muslim what brings you to an islamic forum

Are you genuinely interested in islam
or is there another reason

why are you so offensive against me ?
again im intrigued

"RAF786" wrote:

i genuinly did not know you were non-muslim

That is definitely a bald lie, RAF. *EDIT by 100man: What is funny is that by the time I came to post this, you had edited in the word 'genuinly' as if to strengthen the claim.*

"RAF786" wrote:

this explains your lack of sympathy for suffering muslims

I have every sympathy for people who are genuinely suffering, and this includes many Muslims. I do not wonder why you state otherwise, I am aware of the kind of world you have been trying to shape, locked in enmity.

"RAF786" wrote:

but im intrigued as a non-muslim what brings you to an islamic forum

To join in your discussions, and specifically having tired of misinformation that I read on the old forums. And I find there are still people around who I want to set straight, and others with whom I feel some bond, and I am comfortable with my conduct.

Quote:

Are you genuinely interested in islam
or is there another reason

I am not here to become Muslim, if that is what you mean. More generally, you could say I am interested in Islam, because there are so many Muslims, and the religion has had a big impact on society, and perhaps most pertinent, I have come across some very threatening people who say they are Muslim, and that gives rise to immense concern.

The slyness of your questions should not escape you, please.

i am not a lier and weather or not you believe me i dont care

do you sympathise with the innocent palestinians who have had their country occupied and human rights taken from them.

there was no slyness intended from my question the fact to think there was shows your paranoia

why do you find me threathening ?

What is it about my comments that seems to put you on edge and eager to reply ?

I sympathise. I am one of relatively few on this forum who does. You don't. You just get a buzz out of the call be vicious and victorious. I assert that you put a low value on life, being as your take on people - wolves and sheep - is so deeply cynical.

And you are a liar, RAF, I have known you here for a while and you have known me here, and it is completely off-base to claim you would not know very clearly I am Jewish. It is a lie, and whatismore it is a lie that is supposed to discredit what I write, which tells me more about your vile attitude to the world. And that won't be the last of it either.

i dont recall engaging with you before
the only non-muslim i engaged in discussion in this forum was don karnage and that was a very heated debate
why do you think i would know you were non-muslim

the wolves and sheep remark was me being humourous , you seen training day

RAF,

If that was humour it wasn't obvious.

You've been here for about the last four months, and I have been here for a very long time, took a break after New Year. We've had whole threads in which the topic of my presence here as a Jew was very prominent. We have interacted before although my faith may not have come up, but we have spent a lot of time on the same threads where it did. I don't believe it escaped you, especially given your argument on this thread that unless I'm non-Muslim I'll share your 'sympathy' - which to me looks more like a lot of angry gripes simplified to the point where bilious hatred is the only logical conclusion.

I am not villifying you. I am confronting you. I recommend stop thinking about how this looks to other people or you will only dig a deeper and deeper pit for yourself (although I think really it is ridiculous for me to think you care what I recommend). Know that I am not quick to cry conspiracy, and this is just a discussion with you, I am not taking you on as al Qaeda or something.

100man i have just looked through all my comments on past threads to see if maybe i have engaged in a discussion with you in forum and thats why you think i should know your non-muslim and maybe i just forgot, but the fact is i have never interacted with you, replied to your comments or engaged in a debate with you

so how the heck was i to know you were non-muslim

you have unjustifiable accused me of being a bold lier repeatedly with no proof

shame on you , you are indeed the lier

admin i would appreciated it if 100mans comments in which he unjustifably and with no proof just baseless accusations called me a lyer, be removed

Well RAF, that is my conviction. I know you are intelligent, I am sure you sometimes speak from the heart and say great things, but today has not been one of those days. 'I might be mistaken' is a pointless thing to say, though it is true, since I believe I am not. I called you a vile propagandist - and I will hereby downgrade that accusation, such that you are a pawn to propagandists - after you wrote the following:

"RAF" wrote:

sis

tell the palestinian people that the non-muslims are not the enemy, tell them the same people who took their country , killed and jailed their families, robbed their houses, destroyed their livelihoods are not their enemies.

You can also tell the chechnyans that the same non-muslim russains who destroy their houses, rape their sisters , kill their sons , jail their fathers, are not their enemy, whilst your at it tell the iraqis aswell.

You could also explain to them how you consider them to be lame :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:

Maybe I should not credit you with intellect, maybe you are a mere simpleton.

people people!

Romans countrymen, gentlemen. Lend mean ear.

calm down.

use a few less cruise missiles.

OK.

Here comes a ridiculously big smiley. It was bigger.

[img]http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/478/smiley20uy.jpg[/img]

that smiley with the normal eyes and just a smile spooks me out.

Well not that one... but the normal smiley in MSN I think... or yahoo...

probably because I smile like that when I bite my tongue...

Salaam,

Hmmm.....
Although we started off well, we now seem to be drifting away from the focus of the main question here.....

Would you mind if I just posted a reply, to follow on from Assadullah's post?
Thanks...

Assadullah, for someone so young, what noble answers you offer
(Do you live in Milton Keynes? Why, then we are practically neighbours )

I hope you do not mind me saying this, I do it only so that we can help to better each other, but please try and see the best intentions in the actions of others...
Included in that are the words from your Muslim Sister; I’m sure she meant you no harm or ill will. Be forgiving of others...
It is difficult to do when our pride is hurt, but that is why the reward of forgiveness is so great...
Try and cultivate this habit when you are young as it becomes harder to nurture as you get older...That much I know...

If I may go back to your noble words; I think I will try and add my ideas to what has been said on this thread:

I think the core question (from the selection of questions originally offered by ‘TheRevivalEditor’) is one of tolerence...
Tolerance is the term applied to the collective, and individual, practice of not persecuting those who may believe in ways of which we may not approve of, and the tolerance which Islam extols is something without parallel; class and race and color cease, altogether, to be barriers.

Therefore tolerance is a good thing, right?
But should we then be tolerant/kind to those who are intolerant/unkind to us?
I know it’s difficult but I believe we should strive to do this...
Is this not the greatest test of our virtue as Muslims?
For being kind to kind people is easy (I can do that all day!)
Yet being kind to those who are unkind to us is less easy :? and this is the true test of how pure and sincere our kindness is...

The only exception to this would be those who would only use our tolerance to destroy what is good and right in the world i.e. Kafirs, in the truest sense of the word. Yet let us be clear by what a Kafir is…

In the Quran we see that a Kafir, is not the follower of a particular religion (or any race or creed or community), rather he is the opponent of The Almighty’s benevolent will and purpose for mankind, who disbelieves in them to the point of opposing the idea of The Almighty’s guidance. Thereby becoming a conscious evil-doer.

Yet a Kafir (conscious evil-doer devoted to opposing the idea of The Almighty’s guidance) is not a term we should use lightly...
Our Holy Prophet (May peace be blessed upon him) himself said that the term Kafir was not to be applied to anyone who said "Salaam" (peace) to the Muslims…

I find some confusion of this idea amongst Muslims, owing to defective study of the Quran and the Prophet's life. Many Muslims seem to forget that our Prophet (Peace be blessed upon him) had allies among the idolaters even after Islam had triumphed in Arabia, and that he "fulfilled his treaty with them perfectly until the term thereof." The righteous conduct of the Muslims, not the sword, must be held responsible for the conversion of those idolaters, for they embraced Islam long before any expiration of their treaty.

He gave to the Jews of Medina, so long as they were faithful to him, precisely the same treatment as the Muslims. The Beloved Messenger (Peace be upon him) was never aggressive against any man; he never penalized anyone, or made war on any people, on the ground of belief but only on the ground of conduct.

However, 'There is no compulsion in religion'. Men choose their own path - of allegiance or opposition - and some say that it is sufficient punishment for those who oppose, that they get drawn further and further away from the light of truth; which gives sincere peace to the hearts of men.

What Muslims do not generally consider is that this principle of tolerance also applies to our own community just as much as to the people outside it. For the laws of The Almighty are universal; and that our intolerance and persecution of Muslims, because they have different opinions and beliefs, is evidence that we have, for the moment, forgotten The Almighty's majesty and mercy; presented to us in the Quran.....

Let me finish by quoting the Honourable Marmaduke Pickthall (May The Almighty have mercy on him) whose words on Tolerance offer more wisdom than anything that I can write:

Quote:

"There is no doubt but that, in the eyes of history, religious toleration is the highest evidence of culture in a people. Let no Muslim, when looking on the ruin of the Muslim realm which was compassed through the agency of those very peoples whom the Muslims had tolerated and protected through the centuries when Western Europe thought it a religious duty to exterminate or forcibly convert all peoples of another faith than theirs - let no Muslim, seeing this, imagine that toleration is a weakness in Islam...
It is the greatest strength of Islam because it is the attitude of truth.

Allah (Subhanahuwatalah) is not the God of the Jews or the Christians or the Muslims only, any more than the sun shines or the rain falls for Jews or Christians or Muslims only."

May peace be blessed upon you.