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False scholars.
Ouch
is 'Soo' an urdu word?
[size=9]I NEVER WORE IT BECAUSE OF THE TALIBAN, MOTHER. I LIKE THE [b]MODESTY[/b] AND [b]PROTECTION[/b] IT AFFORDS ME FROM THE EYES OF MEN.[/size] [url=http://www.adherents.com/lit/comics/Dust.html]Dust, X-Men[/url]
Salaam
There’s such a healthy diverse range of views and opinions in this forum. I suppose this is what makes this place so interesting…
The majority of Imams hold the opinion that a woman is not obliged to cover her face and hands. However, a group of scholars, the majority of whom belong to the Hanbali School, believe that a woman must cover her face and hands as well.
Some may disagree.
Wasalaam
I don't know.
But in the process of tryinmg to find out I've come across this website!
http://www.musicalnirvana.com/ghazal/urdu_dictionary.html
Irfan your extreme vigilance never ceases to amaze me.
Nothing can get past you.
Actually, it can and did.
Something got past me the other day.
I'll never be able to live it down.
------------>
i think he is referring to this...
http://islamicbookstore.com/b2487.html
thats the one i have somewhere around.
i cover my hands, face and feet. My parents have gotten used to my appearance now even though they don't entirely agree with it.
Ulama e Soo are the evil ulama, the ones who graduate and get the knowledge but distort or hide the truth for whatever reason. Be it monetary, or for the sake of fame or popularity etc.
I am sorry if that appears condescending. My point is that just because some ulama dont speak about this doesnt change the facts. And it is indeed true, the ulama will be held accountable for their deeds. If they have knowledge and dont propagate it they will be held to account, if they had knowledge and they spread it they will be held to account.
The honour that the ulama have is based on their knowledge which they learn and then teach. We respect the ulama.
It is very sad.
The ulama of islaam have made clear that the veil is a necessity, but some people in authority today have confused simple minded muslims into thinking that the face-veil was not a religious demand. Islamic history, the books of fiqah and the fatawa of the Mufti Hazraat throughout the ages bear testimony to this fact.
Unfortunately we have become blinded in our love for the world and have debated on issues which have been practically consensus for 1300 years.
To ALLAH do we belong to HIm is our complaint.
Ya ALLAH Madad.
Haq Chaar Yaar
oh yeh thats a GREAT way to respect them - by calling them 'evil'... :roll: thats the condescending part - they'll be held to account by ALLAH, so y are U judging them? :? didnt u urself say that scholars' opinions on the subject have changed over time?:
OR there's always been a difference of opinion on the issue - if not, y didn't Imam Abu Hanifa make it as 'clear-cut' as the other 3 Imams?
bottomline: there will always be some things which scholars differ upon - just because some happen to disagree with ur stance, doesnt make them 'evil'. :roll:
[size=9]I NEVER WORE IT BECAUSE OF THE TALIBAN, MOTHER. I LIKE THE [b]MODESTY[/b] AND [b]PROTECTION[/b] IT AFFORDS ME FROM THE EYES OF MEN.[/size] [url=http://www.adherents.com/lit/comics/Dust.html]Dust, X-Men[/url]
I havent said who is evil specifically.
The issue is clear cut. The confusion over simple issues has arisen today.
Imam Abu Haneefah alayhi rahmah and his student did make the issue clear, if people spread confusion today that cant be blamed on the Elders who came before.
Anyway, I did what was upon my head. The veiling is a necessity. The rest tum jaano, tumhaara imaan jaane.
Ya ALLAH Madad.
Haq Chaar Yaar
Yikes! Pull it together man!
What happened?!
so. that doesnt change anything - u insulted scholars! :roll: did u, or did u not say this...:
...and does it not indicate the (however small) difference of opinion between Imam Abu Hanifa and the other 3 Imams? and i thought we are not meant to pick and choose from madhabs yet here u are saying that the Ahnaaf of a certain region follow Imam Ahmed ibn Hanbal on this specific matter!
[size=9]I NEVER WORE IT BECAUSE OF THE TALIBAN, MOTHER. I LIKE THE [b]MODESTY[/b] AND [b]PROTECTION[/b] IT AFFORDS ME FROM THE EYES OF MEN.[/size] [url=http://www.adherents.com/lit/comics/Dust.html]Dust, X-Men[/url]
1. I have not insulted any scholar of truth. Nor infact have I mentioned any1 as specifically a scholar of evil. There is an hadeeth which states to the effect that towards the end days the worst on this earth will be the "ulama", and that the biggest liars will be the Quran recitors "qurra." This refers to the ulama and qurraa of evil. The true ulama are upon our heads.
An Alim is an alim who serves the deen and conveys the religion. An alim e soo is one who sells and barters the religion for hsi own nafsaani motives.
2. The difference fo opinion existed on one basis, no fitnah. That is not applicable today.
3. I didnt say the Ahnaaf follow Imam Ahmad, I was saying the Salafiyyah, who are coloured with the fiqh of Imam Ahmad, are strong upon the veiling, and also the Ahnaaf of Indo-Pak-Afghan region.
The Ahnaaf follow the hanafi ruling, which is that the temporary permission to expose the face is not applicable if there is a FEAR of fitnah. Note the word a fear. Today , inna lillahi wa inna ilayhi raaji'oon, we have gone way beyond fear of fitnah; it is upon our heads. May ALLAH save us from the like of this. ameen
4. Mix n match is not an option in the madhaahib.
Thre issue is clear, alhamdulillah.
Ya ALLAH Madad.
Haq Chaar Yaar
i agree the salafis are very clear on the issue of veiling they are as direct as you can get, I like that about them. It was they and not the hanafi/deobandi muslims who heavily influenced me with regards to the niqab.
I have got to agree 'mostly' with brother Med on this. It is clear cut on the issue of covering the face "WHILST THERE IS FEAR OF FITNA".
As brother med has stated that comparing the amount of fitnah that was about when rulings of Niqab where mandatory with the amount of fitnah happening today. [b]Surely there is a greater requirement for it..?[/b] I mean almost every other boy thinks he's a playa.
But brother Med its still a difficult one for our honourable sisters in deen to implement.
Breaking down the psychology of why our Muslim sisters would want to cover her face in public or not; She will cover her face to please Allah and remove the opportunity of fitna happening. This is something NO Muslim on here can dispute.
But why would our sisters in deen want to display her face in public?
I can guess on a number of perfectly valid reasons why she would display her face in the UK. Here are some of them:
- She can't get a job, has no Husband or Guaradian. As we know the Mosques and Islamic community are not organised well enough to look after the sisters in need. She can claim income support, but the constitution here requires both the womenfolk or menfolk to work to earn.
- Afraid of being attacked. There have been a number of occaisions where this has happened. I vaguely recall a scholar issuing a fatwa on this allowing sisters to drop their veils where there is fear of being attacked.
I think you have correctly made a comparison between the amount of fitnah around hence justifies your view. But brother med, can you give us examples in our History where our honourable sisters have been facing the types of trials as I have mentioned above? What types of rulings were around? How did they deal with such situations?
many thanks..
[b][i]Round and round the Ka'bah,
Like a good Sahabah,
One step, Two step,
All the way to jannah[/i][/b]
Salam
Would the Wahhabi boys not say anyting against Liv Tyler.
She looked so good when she wore an Islamic veil in: Lord of the Rings.
Omrow
is Liv Tyler Muslim? :roll:
[b][i]Round and round the Ka'bah,
Like a good Sahabah,
One step, Two step,
All the way to jannah[/i][/b]
Simply email her if you really want to know.
well if she isn't, there's not much to say :roll:
--not that I'm a wahabi or anything.
[b][i]Round and round the Ka'bah,
Like a good Sahabah,
One step, Two step,
All the way to jannah[/i][/b]
Salam
Does that mean you will only speak with Liv if she is a muslim ?
A bit racist dont you think.
Most men would love to speak to Liv whatever she is.
Omrow
Khan Brother.
I am unaware of situations where they were permitted to expose the face. That is not to say it hasnt happened, I have no knowledge of this.
In regards to it being difficult. That is indeed true. My explanation was that the veiling is necessary. That doesnt mean its easy and as I mentioned previoiusly I have a lot of respect for muslim women who grew up in the lap of immodesty and shamelessness and choose to follow their Pious Predecessors in veiling. That is indeed a great act.
Whatever amount women cover it is and should be appreciated. But the ruling should also be made clear so women KNOW where they are going, what their intended target is. It is not reasonable to expect a girl who has been strutting around in jeans and dresses to suddenly don the abaaya when she exits the home. One step at a time, but she should have a clear idea of what is required from her.
For example: the five salah are fard. We must make clear that one who reads all 4 and discards the fifth is sinning, it is unacceptable. The issue and requirement must be made clear - you MUST observe the five daily prayers. But at the same time, we have to be realistic. Those who come to Jumu'ah shouldnt be cornered and lambasted for not reading all 5, they have to be encouraged in order that something is achieved.
This is the same for women who don some form of covering. The women who VEIL should speak to them about what is required. MEN should NOT REPEAT NOT go upto random women at uni and college and start telling them about the veiling; this is the path to fitnah. If the man does it in an indirect way - eg talking with a male friend about it within earshot of a muslimah then it is good but one 2 one or in a group it is incorrect and fear of deviated behaviour is strong.
NOTE: if it is perceived that harsh words will sink the message and severity of the issue in then it is imperative that the explanation be done in this manner.
I hope the issue is clear.
Ya ALLAH Madad.
Haq Chaar Yaar
Someone edited my post. Why ?
which one?
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
[size=9]I NEVER WORE IT BECAUSE OF THE TALIBAN, MOTHER. I LIKE THE [b]MODESTY[/b] AND [b]PROTECTION[/b] IT AFFORDS ME FROM THE EYES OF MEN.[/size] [url=http://www.adherents.com/lit/comics/Dust.html]Dust, X-Men[/url]
Whatever I have said regarding the veiling of the face being necessity is the ruling of the hanafi madhab as per the teaching of leading hanafi ulama.
I have not mentioned specific ulama. Nor have I labelled in my own head who is an evil scholar. You are free to believe what you want.
In Islam we are to judge and treat each other on what is apparent. If a person adopts the dress and manners of a muslim and claims on his tongue the kalima we treat him as a muslim. We JUDGE on the apparent.
His heart may be one of a kafirs but that is for ALLAH.
Similarly if som1 proclaims kufr and acts and behaves and dresses like a kafir then we treat him as a kafir. He is liable for example for the jizyah, his nikah with a muslimah is invalid etc. We JUDGE on what is apparen.
His heart may be one of a muslims but that is for ALLAH.
I think I read one of the classical scholars books on this issue of social interaction and JUDGING on what is apparent. If I come across it will refer you to that inshaallah.
We disagree on saying there are ulama e soo. Big deal.
Ya ALLAH Madad.
Haq Chaar Yaar
Salam
The one above on Liv Tyler.
Omrow
What part of that post was edited?
It's not who I am underneath, but what I do that defines me.
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