Courtesy of [url=http://www.aauk.org]Alif-Aleph UK[/url]:
One Voice[/url]"][list][size=15][color=green][b][url=http://www.onevoicemovement.org/wps/portal][img]http://img92.imageshack....
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ISRAELI-PALESTINIAN CONFLICT:FORGET WHAT YOU’VE BEEN TOLD[/list:u][/b][/size][/color]
Our campuses and communities are overflowing with literature and speakers about the Middle East conflict. But all too often, people and groups spend their time fighting for sole ownership of history and suffering or choose to stand up for their ‘side’ by attacking ‘the other’.
We’ve heard endless lectures from the politicians, professors, advocates and others. We know the frustrations and the critiques, but what do [i][u]average[/u][/i] Israelis and [i][u]average[/u][/i] Palestinians really think? Do they want to end the conflict? Are they able to compromise?
Leading OneVoice youth activists Palestinians Aya Hijazi and Odeh Awad and Israelis Moran Avital and Yoav Sukary will be addressing these issues throughout London from [b]November 19th through 25th[/b], galvanizing support for their work in the Middle East and giving students the opportunity to be part of the solution, rather than part of the problem.
[b]
Israelis and Palestinians may not like or love each other, but those living in the Region are faced between a choice of working to find a way out of the conflict or leaving their children to inherit it. At OneVoice – at last – nationalist citizens on each side are rising to the challenge of finding a way out. Are you with them?[/b][b]Town hall meetings will take place across London: [/b]
[b]Tuesday 21/11 2pm[/b] Uni of East London Room EB1.37 Matrix East Research Lab, 1st floor, East Building.
[b]Tuesday 21/11 6pm[/b] City University, Oliver Thompson Lecture Theatre
[b]Wednesday 22/11 3pm[/b] SOAS, Khalili Lecture Theatre
[b]Thursday 23/11 2pm[/b] Goldsmiths, Student Union, The Stretch
[b]Thursday 23/11 6pm[/b] LSE, Old Theatre, Ground floor, Old Building Houghton Street
[b]Friday 24/11 6.45pm[/b] City Circle Group, Main Hall (Ground Floor), 45 Crawford Place, London W1H 4LP.
[b]Saturday 25/11 9.30am[/b] St John’s Wood Liberal Synagogue
For more information on this or other events, contact Jake Hayman: Jake@OneVoiceMovement.org, +1 212 897 3985 ext.122; mobile 07771 590 893 or Sayyeda Salam 020 8939 1725, Sayyeda@OneVoiceMovement.org[color=default].[/color]
[i]The OneVoice Movement is a mass grassroots movement in the Middle East that empowers moderates to stand up against extremism and to seize back the agenda for conflict resolution. For more information, please go to [url=http://www.onevoicemovement.org][color=blue]www.OneVoiceMovement.org[/co...
[url=http://blog.onevoicemovement.org/one_voice/files/Flyer.pdf]Download Flyer (pdf)[/url]
History and land ownership is something I am fairly indifferent over.
The ruthless Nazis - sorry I mean the Zionists is my only problem. The Zionist state is the focal point of a global conflict; stirring the world by showcasing human aggression, greed, hatred, cruelty, racism, and terror.
As it seems, victim nations too might repeat the crimes of their predators. One would expect Israel to be the first against racism and colonialism, yet Israel was the last government that cut its relationship with the racist apartheid regime in South Africa, reflecting the depth of its racist policy against Palestinians. One would expect Israel to be the first nation against weapon industry, yet Israel is one of top weapon manufacturers and exporters in the world. The racist and colonial policy of Israel is by no means should be generalized to all Jews.
The world's indifference against injustice in the region, and on top of that the support of the super powers of the brutal racist occupation, gave birth to global resentment and hatred among Muslims, triggering a global gang-terrorism challenging the legalized and glorified state-terrorism.
The cycle of violence has since been accelerated by religious fanatics on all sides. The Zionist-Crusader-Capitalist coalition on one side, and the Salafi-Mullah-Taliban coalition on the other side, each adding more fuel to the fire. Each with their own agendas. Zionists hope to grab more land, and the other gang hope for Mahdi to come with its sword to seek for Jews hiding behind rocks.
I am sick to death of this conflict.
I'm for the one state solution, I can't see the two state solution working, 100 what are most Jews for and why?
Most Jews are for two states because one state implies the dissolution of Israel. Your comparison of Zionists to Nazis is thoroughly inappropriate - inaccurate - whatever parallels you might see. Your insistence on villifying Israel is either aggressive or immature and your claim to be sick of the conflict is thus irrelevant. What you claim to support is unacceptable for Israel and would prolong the conflict. I am for a two-state solution.
I don't want to discuss it further if you intend only to offer diatribes by way of context. I could also get into diatribes but they are unhelpful.
I did not write the above, it is an invitation that landed in my inbox to learn from some Israelis and Palestinians who would like to establish a peaceful resolution. If you take a look at the links you will see they have acheived some nonpartisan progress in the matter of promoting an accord. A conversation between the two of us would not be as informed and effective and is likely to further rather than bridge the already tragic gulf in understanding between Jews and Muslims generally.
[size=10]I feel I'm gonna move on back down south
you know where the water tastes like cherry wine[/size]
but the holy land for the Jews is not limited to the bit they have captured. Wouldn't it be better for Jews to spread about all over the holy land rather then cramming in one place?
Besides I don't trust Israel when they claim that they won't steal more land.
its the trust
and the truth hurts
besides many Jews are completely oblivious to Israel’s aggression, the ones that are aware of it (and are aware of much more of the injustice then I know) justify it because you had a bloody history. Some excuse! :roll:
I am not being aggressive or immature, I just say things the way they are, even if people don't like it. I [i]don't[/i] want to believe that my brothers and sisters are suffering tremendously in Palestine, but I have no choice to accept it because it is the truth, even with the zionist slanted media the truth still manages to shine through.
the two state solution will not solve anything, both of you will still be fighting for the land.
your right they are unhelpful
yes I know I have heard of the organization before.
the only thing we ever do is talk, what good has merely talking done?
yes I do know that
ok
You are projecting on two counts. Israel does not want to extend its borders. Some have wanted to do that but they are a discredited few. Israel's concerns are strategic and you can appreciate they are not best served by a vast land-grab. Your distrust is all yours.
It is not the truth. Hitler demarcated anyone not of his preferred type, including Jews, Poles, Gypsies, gays and political opponents, stripped them of all rights and sent them to death camps in their millions. It is true that Israel is intended to be an autonomous safe country for Jews but that is not how they treat the Arabs or anyone else. Israel has been at war since its inception, and if you mean to compare thousands of casualties of war with the Nazi genocide I will put it down to insensitivity or ignorance rather than assume you are plain nasty. The issues over Israel's establishment are not cut and dried, and if I can acknowledge the Arab narrative differs from the Israeli one and put these villifications aside for the sake of peace, perhaps you can.
I have heard the one state solution proposed by some communist groups, and I believe their plans for a borderless world are simply unrealistic, and also from enemies of Israel. You can take it that if there is to be a peace without total annihalation of either side it will involve an Israeli and a Palestinian state. Apart from debates over the precise borders and contiguity of the Palestinian state, which are not insoluble over any timeframe so long as security issues are washed away by agreement, the sticking point is the definition of refugee such that any obligation Israel makes to reassimilate Palestinian refugees would not include second generation offspring, Palestinians who sold their homes before leaving (and I don't claim the nature of those sales is a simple issue) or Palestinians who were not in fact born there. The definition of any "right of return" has been the sticking point time and again. I don't think being sick of the details should be confused with sick of the conflict.
But you have replied with diatribe in any event. I haven't.
Between us it can only inform, and hopefully it will result in goodwill rather than bitterness. Agreement requires conversation. How else do you propose an agreement is reached?
Surely a good thing.
If we are agreeing not to get into a useless discussion please try to leave allegations out of your response.
[size=10]I feel I'm gonna move on back down south
you know where the water tastes like cherry wine[/size]
100 I am not going to quote all that.
But in short...
- To reduce the number of Arabs in the holy land, Israel did not resort to ethical tactics, its so bloody obvious, the numbers have simply gone too low.
- LOADS of Jews want to extend their boarders, not just a few.
- In the book of Joshua the Jews massacred every one of the people of Canaan, you did not even spare the lives of the babies, but had the mercy to spare the life of a prostitute. Genocide is advocated in the Torah. In one particular area you made the people of Canaan work as slaves.
- Israel is fascist under the guise of democracy
- we can talk all we like, nothing has ever been achieved
I don't know what you call loads but it is a discredited small percentage. I should think I am a lot closer to understanding that than you are and that I can be confident in saying it but if you like to be cynical go ahead.
"Israel is fascist under the guise of democracy" is weak and whatever it means, presumably in reference to Israel being a Jewish and militarised state, does not justify your earlier comparisons with Nazism. It is a factually bankrupt meme.
I have not resorted to obtaining politics from Joshua, nor does the state of Israel and nor do the peaceniks I cited above. Nothing on this thread warrants that you should be on the attack with non-sequiturs.
We agree, seemingly, that you and I cannot make peace between the Israelis and the Arabs. However the statement "we can talk all we like, nothing has ever been achieved", harks back to your earlier statement, "the only thing we ever do is talk, what good has merely talking done?" Never mind that it is you who initiated this conversation, what I am wondering is what presumably unilateral action you consider should be taken and by whom, that does not require any kind of conversation. Please answer my question - how do you think your "one-state solution" can be acheived?
[size=10]I feel I'm gonna move on back down south
you know where the water tastes like cherry wine[/size]
the former chief rabbi of Israel, Rabbi Ovadia Yossef, who is also a founder and spiritual leader of the religious Shas party (Israel's third largest political party) openly advocates a 'Final Solution' to annihilate the Palestinians? Speaking at the widely broadcast sermon marking the last Passover, he declared of the Palestinians: "The Lord shall return their deeds on their own heads, waste their seed and exterminate them, devastate them and vanish them from this world. It is forbidden to be merciful to them. You must send missiles to them and annihilate them. They are evil and damnable."
Israel policies are based on the Torah, therefore I read the Torah to see what you are planning for the goyim.
Judaism is a nationalistic religion, and I've even heard Jews say that "Israel is fascist country under the guise of democracy"
Peace can only be achieved if Israel puts an end to their Nazi style policies and when the Arabs stop the suicide bombings in Israel. However Israeli policies are fueling suicide bombers, even non-muslims (including Jews) have sympathy for suicide bombers, its gut wrenching.
That is Ovadia Yossef, not Ehud Olmert. Shas is the joint third largest party on account of a highly mobilised support base, with the same number of seats as Likud, although it receives less votes. To equate that with Israeli policy is absurd. Incidentally your source is a website from which you have lamely cut'n'pasted that excerpt. That is no way to discuss the issue. Please find me an entire transcript from a website intended for a Jewish audience, because I cannot find it. You do not read the Torah. That claim makes you a liar. I cannot be bothered debating this further with you. Perhaps you can respond to what I have said and answer my questions and you may have the last word.
[size=10]I feel I'm gonna move on back down south
you know where the water tastes like cherry wine[/size]
Again, courtesy of [url=http://www.aauk.org]Alif-Aleph UK[/url], because this debate with poster is a horrible direction for the thread:
[size=10]I feel I'm gonna move on back down south
you know where the water tastes like cherry wine[/size]
Refrain from judging me from your own standards.
I have read the 5 books of moses, the book of Joshua, Judges & Ruth.
The book of Josh quite clearly told you to kill the people of Canaan, in fact you didn't just kill the people, the animals were killed too! May I ask why? what was the point in killing them?
After apologising yesterday you are weaseling again today.
I also note a new member "posterjobasup". Other recent additions are "mobasup" and "Moterjobas64". Might be a coincidence but I have a couple of additional strong hunches. ftr what usernames have you posted under in the past?
I am under no illusions as to where you get your information. [url=http://www.google.co.uk/search?as_q=&num=10&hl=en&btnG=Google+Search&as_...
The book of Joshua is a non sequitur and not worth debating. I doubt very much, if you are a Muslim, that you read the Torah. If you did you should know that no laws are infered from the books of the prophets. Yesterday you wrote in another thread that you "like Jews". I cannot imagine how you can like Jews if you believe we imitate the book of Joshua.
I called you a liar believing it to be true. I did promise you the last word, apologies for responding. I will not repeat the promise lest I feel compelled again to respond.
[size=10]I feel I'm gonna move on back down south
you know where the water tastes like cherry wine[/size]
Chill. 100 posted an event to help the region not launch an attack on Bradford.
It will be a lot of talking at this event. BUT AT LEAST THEY WILL BE TALKING IN A GROUP. Other than talk what do you, 100 or I do?
He who sacrifices his conscience to ambition, burns a picture to obtain the ashes!
100 if I was spam I would be banned by now.
And thanks for the link, i will check it out
No i don't hate Jews, not your fault that your religion is like that, its a cause for concern thats all.
I don't care if you don't believe me when I say I have read some of the Jewish scriptures, I don't need to prove anything to you.