London Terror Attacks

Admin
My questions I raised earlier are still inanswered, along with many others.

Your questions relate to finding pot-holes in the evidence and the case that the police are presenting about the attacks and the attackers. I can only answer such questions with my own common sense and without the aid of examining the crime-scene for myself.

In any case, any answers I give to such questions will only be misconstrued by people who question my sincerity in expressing my views about British-born Pakistani suicide bombers.

You said before:

Either the intelligence services far more before hand than they are letting on, or this could be a set-up.

If you think this is a set-up, then you must believe that this was set-up by non-Muslims. But then you said that, 'I do not think it was zionists, CIA, devils minnions or elvis presley.' If this was a set-up, then who is responsible for this set-up? Who has set this up?

The intelligence services may have known far more about this than they are letting on. This conforms to my earlier assertion that if the gov wants a terrorist attack to take place it ignores reports of a possible and lets the attack take place.

If the intelligence agencies had known about this attack before-hand, then they may have monitored this group. They may have gathered information about this group in order to use this info in the aftermath of the attack.

The intelligence services may have known of the possible attack, but its just that they purposely didn't stop the attack.

Admin
Irfan I do understand your point that we must face reality. but you are not questioning the 'reality' that is being presented. It is too inconsistent, and far too convenient.

It's convenient for us to only question everything.

Ignorance is bliss.

AdminIt still does not add up.

My questions I raised earlier are still inanswered, along with many others.

Why were there belongings linking the same individual to two separate bombing sites?

Did he blow himself up, decide that is not enough, and blow himself up again?

Irfan I do understand your point that we must face reality. but you are not questioning the 'reality' that is being presented. It is too inconsistent, and far too convenient.

Convenient that they 'happen' to find Identification documents at one of the scenes of crime but linked it up 2 bombings or that they then immedately knew who it was and arrested him or conveniently that when they arrested him they had a controlled explosion at his residence?

I've come across two articles today, both from the more right-wing sections of the media.

The first article talks about Al Qaeda being a spefically Western phenomenon. It reaches interesting conclusions.

British-born bombers: not so shocking

From 9/11 to 7/7, nihilistic terror has its origins in the West.
by Brendan O'Neill

Charles Clarke, the British home secretary, is 'shocked'. According to the latest police updates, the London bombers were not some Johnny Foreigner threat to our 'way of life': they were four young Britons brought up in our way of life; four men aged between 19 and 30 who were born in Britain to normal, and by all accounts perfectly respectable, Pakistani families.

...

Could it be that the new terrorism, which we consider so awful and alien, is in fact a product of the same corrosive forces that impact on the rest of us? Could it be that those four alienated Asian kids from Leeds were expressing the same angst and disillusionment, in a much more violent way, as anti-globalist campaigners express when they smash up a McDonald's and others of us express in our pissed-off-ness with political and public life?

The second article is from top Tory Islamaphobic buffoon, Boris Johnson. Boris looks to more 'Britishness' as the answer to the problems of British Muslims. This article is palpably racist. Beneath the buffoonary and wit lies an Enoch Powell itching to get out.

This is a turning point: we have to fly the flag for Britishness again

By Boris Johnson

"All he wanted to do was have a laugh," said one of the neighbours last night, about one of the sick quartet responsible for killing themselves and at least 52 others in London. "He was sound as a pound." Yeah, right. If these four young men were perfectly normal Yorkshiremen, then what the hell is happening to this country?
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I've been hearing from everyone that ALL four suicide bombers were british pakistani's.

I just read that one of the bombers was a Jamaican-born British resident named Lindsey Germaine. He is thought to be responsible for the Russell Square Underground bomb.

I think him and his wife were converts and they lived in Aylesbury, he had an 18 month old son as well.

chm1I've been hearing from everyone that ALL four suicide bombers were british pakistani's.

I just read that one of the bombers was a Jamaican-born British resident named Lindsey Germaine. He is thought to be responsible for the Russell Square Underground bomb.

I think him and his wife were converts and they lived in Aylesbury, he had an 18 month old son as well.

He also taught disabled children.

Yet he saw fit to blow himself up??

Slightly out of character wouldnt you say?

Apart from one suicide bomber, all the neighbours and close friends of the bombers are saying that what they did was out of character.

Mohammad Sidique Khan was a 30 year old teaching assistant. One neighbour said: "He didn't seem to be an extremist. He was not one to talk about religion. He was generally a very nice bloke."

Another bomber, Shehzad Tanweer, was a graduate. Neighbours described the graduate, as a "good Muslim". Others said he was a "nice lad" who could "get on with anyone".

Hasib Hussain, however seemed to be a trouble maker though. He left school without getting any GCSE's. His parents then sent him back home and to Hajj where he decided to grow a beard and wear robes. Despite becoming devoutly religious, he was arrested for shop-lifting.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4678837.stm

chm1Apart from one suicide bomber, all the neighbours and close friends of the bombers are saying that what they did was out of character.

It would shock and bewilder anyone in this country if they were told that someone that was close to them commited suicide - let alone being told that their loved-one was a suicide bomber.

Some theories from a brother:
http://www.sunniport.com/portal/viewtopic.php?t=624

irfan

chm1Apart from one suicide bomber, all the neighbours and close friends of the bombers are saying that what they did was out of character.

It would shock and bewilder anyone in this country if they were told that someone that was close to them commited suicide - let alone being told that their loved-one was a suicide bomber.

Yeh but you would think that if some-one held extremists views they would try and reinforce them on those close to them. If they strongly believed in their views, they would want loved ones to think the same way as them.

chm1Yeh but you would think that if some-one held extremists views they would try and reinforce them on those close to them. If they strongly believed in their views, they would want loved ones to think the same way as them.

These families have lost sons. They're not likely to start dissing them.

They don't have to diss them but they shouldn't cover up for their mistakes by making them out to be something that they're clearly not.

chm1They don't have to diss them but they shouldn't cover up for their mistakes by making them out to be something that they're clearly not.

My use of the word 'dissing' was inappropriate there. I meant that the families are not likely to give the media any more amo with which to vilify their dead sons.

Their sons have already been described as barbaric, sick, even 'not worthy of calling themselves Muslims' and much more besides.

Seraph

AdminIt still does not add up.

My questions I raised earlier are still inanswered, along with many others.

Why were there belongings linking the same individual to two separate bombing sites?

Did he blow himself up, decide that is not enough, and blow himself up again?

Irfan I do understand your point that we must face reality. but you are not questioning the 'reality' that is being presented. It is too inconsistent, and far too convenient.

Convenient that they 'happen' to find Identification documents at one of the scenes of crime but linked it up 2 bombings or that they then immedately knew who it was and arrested him or conveniently that when they arrested him they had a controlled explosion at his residence?

Its all rather convenient.

A controlled explosion is not, as many people believe controlling the explosion of found exploosives, but adding more explosives as to destroy (for example) the prior 'explosive's' timing aparatus.

Now it is used for all suspect packages. It may be a bomb. It may be someone's lunch.

The fact they knew immediately who it was would lead to the theory they had prior intelligence.

We are told that one of the accused bombers is a man with a new family, a young bried and an 8 month old baby.

We are also told that he had a good job (as did she) in education, and therefore had a modest income.

Why didn't he send his wife and child out of the country the day before?

They have family and friends in Pakistan. People travel to show new babies with the relations all the time. One more woman traveling with an 8 month old baby would not raise any eyebrows.

It's one thing to spin a yarn that the man bombed the tube because he "hates our freedoms (copyright 2002-2005 White House)" and quite another to claim he knowingly left his young bride and child to face the consequences of the aftermath.

I got an email with an interesting rumor going around London that just before the attacks, someone was trying to hire Muslims to play terrorists for a terror drill, to try to sneak onto the trains and buses with fake bombs to test out the security.

We know the terror drill was real. We know they were running the drill at the exact same stations the bombings actually occurred.

We know that the accused bombers don't fit the profile of men ready to die for Allah. Indeed it is reported that some of them were not particularly religious.

And we are faced with the strange claim that these men, one of whom had a new family, carried bombs set on timers yet stood there waiting for the bombs to explode.

This makes sense ONLY if they thought they were carrying fake bombs as part of a terror drill. This also explains the nervousness of the man on the bus who had probably just heard of the real explosions and was starting to suspect that the fake bomb he was carrying might not be fake after all.

"Hey you, Muslim person. Wanna make a hundred pounds? You could use that kind of dough, with a new kid and all. We're running a terror drill, and all you gotta do is take this here harmless backpack with a fake bomb inside to work with you tomorrow, just to see if the subway guards catch you or not. Mum's the word, this is national security and all; you can't tell anyone!"

well that rumour does need proof.

If there was someone knocking around for dummies, there must be people who refused. where are they?

I would love some testimony that blows the case wide open, but alas I think it may just be a rumour.

totally agree wit u there admin..

i just find it sad that from day one Muslims had to play it guilty before proven innocent..

anyways gota sleep.. stay safe brothers,. im hearing stories of attacks against muslims..

http://www.thepakistaninewspaper.com/news_detail.php?id=2702

may Allah forgive us all.

yes there were incidents where upto 50 drunken yobs had to be broken up outside a pub in Leeds.

What was worrying was the reporter said she hoped it was not the start of rioting. It must have been serious for that to be speculated.

('Combat 18' and 'National front' logos had also been spray painted near/on muslim property earlier.)

Family mourns bomb victim Shahara

Simon Jeffery

The Guardian

The first of the funerals for the victims of the London bomb attacks was today held for Shahara Islam.

In a statement, Ms Islam's parents said the 20-year-old had been in "the wrong place at the wrong time" when she was killed on her way to work at an Islington bank branch last Thursday morning.

"Today our dear daughter, cause of our joy and light of our eyes, our Shahara is returning to her Lord - an innocent and blood-stained martyr. She was an East Ender, a Londoner and British, but, above all, a true Muslim and proud to be so," the statement said.

"She was a simple girl from a simple family who led a simple life. Unfortunately she was at the wrong place at the wrong time on that unfortunate day.

"The flame of her life has been cruelly extinguished from this beautiful young woman in her prime, who had the whole world ahead of her."

Earlier, prayers were said at the East London Mosque in Whitechapel for the young woman from nearby Plaistow. The mosque's imam, Shaykh Abdul-Qayyum, said the bombers had abandoned justice and committed a heinous crime.

Our leaders must speak up

Failure to oppose the official line creates extremists

Salma Yaqoob

The Guardian

This cycle of violence has to be broken. By confining analysis to simple religious terms, however, politicians are asking the impossible of our security services as well as Muslim leaders. No number of sniffer dogs or sermons denouncing the use of violence against innocents can detect and remove the pain and anger that drives extremists to their terrible acts. The truth is that shoddy theology does not exist without a dodgy foreign policy.

Well it gets interesting when a national newspaper starts to question the oficial version of events, considering the nationalist backlash that could damage its sales.

WAS IT SUICIDE?
Why did they buy return train tickets to Luton? Why did they buy pay & display tickets for cars? Why were there no usual shouts of 'Allah Akhbar'? Why were bombs in bags and not on their bodies?

Exclusive By Jeff Edwards

THE London bombers may have been duped into killing themselves so their secrets stayed hidden.

Police and MI5 are probing if the four men were told by their al-Qaeda controller they had time to escape after setting off timers. Instead, the devices exploded immediately.

A security source said: "If the bombers lived and were caught they'd probably have cracked. Would their masters have allowed that to happen? We think not."

The evidence is compelling: The terrorists bought return rail tickets, and pay and display car park tickets, before boarding _ a train at Luton for London. None of the men was heard to cry "Allah Akhbar!" - "God is great" - usually screamed by suicide bombers as they detonate their bomb.

Their devices were in large rucksacks which could be easily dumped instead of being strapped to their bodies. They carried wallets containing their driving licences, bank cards and other personal items. Suicide bombers normally strip themselves of identifying material.

Similar terror attacks against public transport in Madrid last year were carried out by recruits who had time to escape and planned to strike again.

Bomber Hasib Hussain detonated his device at the rear of the top deck of a No 30 bus, not in the middle of the bottom deck where most damage would be caused.

Additionally, two of the bombers had strong personal reasons for staying alive.

Jermaine Lindsay's partner Samantha Lewthwaite, 22, mother of his one-year-old son, is expecting her second baby within days. Mohammed Sidique Khan's wife Hasina, mum of a 14-month-old daughter, is also pregnant.

Our source disclosed: "The theory that they were not a suicide squad is gathering pace. They were the weakest link.

"We think it's possible they were told that when they pressed buttons to set off timers they'd have a short time to abandon the bombs and get away before the blast. Instead, the bombs exploded immediately."

Another intelligence source added: "Whoever is behind this didn't want to waste their best operatives on a suicide mission. Instead they used easily recruited low-grade men who may have believed they'd walk away."

At least 54 people were killed in the 7/7 blasts. Khan, 30, of Dewsbury, Shehzad Tanweer, 22, of Leeds, and Jamaican-born Lindsay, 19, of Aylesbury, Bucks, detonated devices on the Tube at Edgware Road, Aldgate and King's Cross.

Hussain, 18, of Leeds, blasted the bus at Tavistock Square. The Tube explosions went off almost simultaneously. But the bus went up an hour later.

Yesterday, Hussain's family told of their horror at the teenager's involvement in the massacre. They said in a statement: "We are devastated over the events of the past few days. Hasib was a loving and normal young man who gave us no concern and we are having difficulty taking this in.

"Our thoughts are with all the bereaved families. We have to live with the loss of our son in these difficult circumstances.

"We had no knowledge of his activities and, had we done, we would have done everything in our power to stop him. We urge anyone with information to cooperate fully with the authorities."

Police are urgently investigating the missing 81 minutes between Hussain arriving from Luton in London and the time his bomb went off.

His device may have malfunctioned. He may have lost his nerve. Or he may have panicked when he discovered the Northern Line, on which he is thought to have been due to travel, was suspended.

Officers want to discover if Hussain met anyone else who either strengthened his faltering resolve or reset his flawed bomb.

TheMirror

Or maybe they were innocent? maybe they were duped into carrying along packages they thought were harmless. Maybe it was not even them that carried the explosion.

If a bomb is not strapped to the body, is it not virtually impossible to find out who's ownership it was under?

The plot thickens.

To add to that: the front cover of The Mirror:

This all could be a storm in a teacup though...

check this out:
the 'conspiracy theory' khan was chatting bout:
http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/july2005/130705teneasysteps.htm

Unfortunately that is all very plausible.

However I do not think the gov would do it. Maybe some third party also interested in the havoc.

Thinking of it has the gov burried any bad news lately? I would expect them to do so.

admin, you beat me to it..

my thoughts are like a seasaw at the moment, going into..

why did the muslim boys do it? on one side..

then given the points raised on this forum, the story does not tie up and sounds very 'set-up'

nevertheless Muslims are being attacked as a result, quite literally. I've already heard from several of my friends of insults, acts of violence, muslim sisters being spat at..

this aint good.

Just stay careful Muslims, - we cannot be blamed for the bombings,

if anybody thinks otherwise out of anger, hatred.. the best we can do is calmly walk away.. rather we gotta point them to the source of our Religion which is the Glorious Qur'an sent down to the 'entire' mankind.

inshAllah, then they will be able to understand what Allah wants from humans.

btw.. thought the amir khan match was fantastic.. me and family we're being tempted into a fight with a coupla racist drunk thugs following the match.. we just kept our cool, was ready to defend ourselves but managed to talk sense into them..

thinking back it could have been much worse..

i dunno maybe we can have a separate thread on this but.. What can Muslims do in the current situation to protect their families and themselves?

True.

1. We have nothing whatso ever to apologise for.
2. We did not do the bombings.
3. I have not physically met anyone (muslim or not) who buys the oficial line wholesale.
4. Too many unanswered questions.
5. I do not like being on the defensive.
6. Alqaeda was and still is the most likely suspect.
7. I hate the bandwaggon the Israelis have jumped onto, sympathising, but saying they suffer this daily. I find it sick. In every 'news' report, you are taken through the mind of the bomber via Israel. Very good hijacking of emotions.
8. I found the Amir khan match disappointing. I wanted to see a real fihgt, not 30 seconds of warm up.
9. I like numbered lists. 😛

I read all the posts in the last five pages and I generally agree with irfans view on this

IMO parents should REALLY keep MORE of an eye on their kids-its aint just enouh to send them to Mosques or to talks

they need to KNOW what is being taught to their kids

its obvious that the branwashing never came from their upbringing-outsiders messed with the boys heads

parents need to know what their kids are on

all families claimed that they never saw this coming-BUT THEY SHOULD HAVE

the back lash is awful

I was in Manchester all last week and almost every other day my aunty was telling me about some Hijaabi she personally knew that has been kicked or verbally abused

here in London dad/mum told me about some Hijaaban they personally knew that has been slapped up by white skin heads

and we live in area that is predominatly asian

we're forbidden to go to central London-and dad calling us 24/7 on the mobile when we're out has increased :roll:

when we was coming from Manchester dad asked us what we were wearing-and asked us if we had a Jilbaab/shalwar kameez on....we told him that cos its so hot we're wearing skirts and he relaxed a bit...which is weird since he has always had an issue with his girls wering english clothes

later we found out that he was stressing cos my mum went shopping with her mate the other day and a bunch of white skin heads were swearing at her and calling her a "suicide bomber"

what the hell has this crap achevived apart from making life more difficult for the Muslims?

OF COURSE every Muslim should speak out against this-its the MUSLIMS that are suffering as a result

hasnt anyone been following BBC news and listeing to the reports of the attcaks on Mosques?

its a sick sad world we live in :evil:

deleted

Yeh agree with the 2 posts above, becuz of the ignorance of these ppl muslim bro's/sis's are getin attacked but that doesnt seem to make it to the media, they are quick to point out "Muslim" terrorist but the fact that we muslims are getin attacked and abused doesnt seem to register..

its disgustin why should us muslims have to suffer due the lack of intellect of others who cnt be bothered to find out bout islam and those who just go with what the media says, these stupid ppl cant think for themselves!

The fact mosques are getin removed is just goin to far!

phew i needed to say all that

As I said before, e have nothing to apologise for.

So first step, don't apologise. Do not get defensive.

Second step turn the questioners questionn onto themselves. Make them feel guilty.

Third step make them aware their are intolerant. Add a few spicy words.

Feel good about yourself.

angel
The fact mosques are getin removed is just goin to far!

What mosques are being removed?