I have now read a few times now from people the sentiment that we should not say sorry in vain. Only say it when it means something. Otherwise it cheapens the words.
I am sorry, but saying sorry IS cheap.
If Tony Blair had given a proper apology over the Iraq fiasco, would that make things ok?
If I maim someone or ruin their life by my actions, would saying sorry cut it?
I don't think so.
(title is words from a song called "They" by Jem. Avoid the UK/"space version".)
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I'm so sorry, Admin of Revival, but we had the best of times.
Maybe saying sorry isn't enough, but what about apologising and trying to actively make amends?
“Before death takes away what you are given, give away whatever there is to give.”
Mawlana Jalal ud Din Rumi
But if it was an important matter, would an apology cut it?
Like when Dick Cheney shot his hunting partner a few years ago...
The other guy apologised to Dick Cheney for causing all the fuss.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
He is the (current, outgoing) Vice President of the US of A.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
The internet supersedes the TV (atleast for me it does), but don't worry, this happened a few years ago.
I think it was a while after a pretzel tried to Assassinate the leader of the free world though...
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
Bush Vs Pretzel
Cheney hunting people.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
Depends on what you have done wrong. If you have hurt someones feeling then a genuie "i am sorry" should cover it. If you have killed someone then it aint gonna cut it.
does this count?
http://www.tampabay.com/opinion/editorials/article435306.ece
Anyone can apologise for something they never did... The only time such apologies are any good as when they are used as acknowledgement for a wrongdoing. A verbal apology is never a corrective matter.
(just to be clear, the original post was not written to offer an apology in any way. just to discuss the matter of apologies as it all seems kind of lame to me.)
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
My "problem" with apologies is that they are only words and not a corrective measure.
They may make the apologiser eat humble pie, but does that really mean anything?
If the apology is for something small, an insult, then an apology work.
But that also means that an apology is cheap.
"You cost me a million pounds, but I got your apology. I win"
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
If someone apologises then carries on acting the same way as before, then of course the apology is worthless/meaningless.
IF they apologise and then try to change their behaviour/ make it up to you in some way, then I think that it is valid. Of course, if they do this then an apology is not strictly important, its the actions that GO WITH the apology which give it value... BUT the apology works as sign-post that someone has acknowledged their error... SO I feel that it is good.
But 'demanding' an apology is ridiculous, as was the Church of England going around with placards saying 'Terribly Sorry' or whatever it was, for their part in the slave trade. You can't/shouldn't apologise for the actions of your predesessors/ancestors, because that's just stupid.
Which is why I have a problem with the Christian principal of Original Sin (although that's not really relevant, is it?)
Don't just do something! Stand there.
It's all a part of the plan.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
But what if, say you apologise on behalf of me because I said something stupid.
“Before death takes away what you are given, give away whatever there is to give.”
Mawlana Jalal ud Din Rumi
Would that apology hold meaning?
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
I was in a similar situation about a month ago. My sister took it upon herself to rip into lecturer in front of about 250 students. I was initially going to knock on his door at apologise for my sisters behaviour but then i thought well hes just going to come out with "oh you shouldnt be apologising."
I was only going to apolergise because i didnt want him thinking all Muslims are like that.
No not the gum drop buttons! – Gingy
What did she say, and what did the lecturer say/do.
“Before death takes away what you are given, give away whatever there is to give.”
Mawlana Jalal ud Din Rumi
Something along the lines of your kids are probably ashamed to have you for a dad. Your tapped in the head and need medical help. He threatened to get her thrown off the course and out of the uni.
Read this it might make it a bit clearer
No not the gum drop buttons! – Gingy
No this is erm... intriguing. (I've been told that I use "interesting" too much...)
Why did she feel the need to shout him down?
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
Because she is the biggest homosexual hater and doesnt hide it.
No not the gum drop buttons! – Gingy
If she ever decides to run a business, advise her against it.
The questions of transsexuals having kids also needs more thought.
On another forum I have read someone suggest that if a couple cannot naturally have children, there should not be any artificial methods used. Apart from adoption/fostering.
One thing which I would really like to know, but I suspect there would not be much data on for about 15/20 years is what proportion of kids whose parents (both real parents and also adoptive, and separately) are homosexual also turn homosexual... In short how much of an effect would it have?
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
I take it that your referring to Islam there. Other methods are debateable but I dont see anything wrong with IVF.
I doubt you will find anything. Homosexuality has/still is shunned /looked down by society. Its only recently homosexuals are more open about it. Nevertheless its an intriguing question you pose.
No not the gum drop buttons! – Gingy
Nope - The poster may have been Christian but it was on on a pretty strongly athiest forum.
Her argument was more humanitarian - there are plenty of kids out there that need taking care of. If you cannot have your own, would it not be better to just take care of them instead of expensive procedures to cheat nature - and the chances are there is a reason why you cannot have kids. Call it evolution.
None of it will mean anything, but there will be a question of wether they are "preached" homosexuality or not... what would a homosexual couple teach their (mainly adoptive here) kids? Will it be that "homosexuality should be tolerated", "its not abnormal" or will it be more than that? What would they teach as the default orientation? can such a thing even be taught? I suspect that many peple have asked such questions and come to different conclusions.
We'll have answers in 15/20 years from now when those adopted kids are adults and decide to take part is studies.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
She makes a valid point.
Im assuming homosexual couples tell their kids that having 2 mummies or 2 daddies is normal and that we shouldnt be ashamed or who we are bla bla. They are hardly going to be telling their kids they are abnormal. That link i put up about the lecturer he is a Christian, goes to church every Sunday and he justifies homosexuality in that it doesnt state in the bible or any holy book that homosexuality is a sin. Which got me thinking is there actually anything in the Quran which states in black and white the words homosexuality is a sin? (well its not going to have the word homosexuality but anything along the lines of man being with man or woman being with woman is a sin?). He seems to think you can be a Christian and also be gay. Oh and his eldest daughter who is 16 is dating a Muslim boy!
No not the gum drop buttons! – Gingy
There is a page on wikipedia on this. It links to a few different sets of verses. click on the verse numbers to get multiple translations from USC. or look them up elsewhere.
There is also Qur'an 4:15 and 4:16.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
Ive actually read that chapter and cant believe i forgot it. :oops: I think i should revisit it sometime soon.
Cheers big ears
No not the gum drop buttons! – Gingy
Forgetfulness is the human way.
As such, the verses do not explicitly 110% say Homosexuality is haraam, so those that argue that on technicalities are correct, but those that ask only for a reasonable 100% get that.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
and I somehow managed to miss the biggest argument against homosexuality.
Sexual intercourse is only allowed through marriage. If the marriage has to be between a man and a woman, that by default disallows homosexuality.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
But the law now allows a homosexual couple to marry. So if you used that argument they can just turn around and say but we are married.
I think a better argument would be procreation. But then again they could use artifical methods as a come back.
Anyway i think ive wasted enough time on here. Need to crack on with some revision. Ta ra and salaams all.
No not the gum drop buttons! – Gingy
Islamic marriage, not british legal marriage.
If you get married in the uk but do not carry out the islamic rites, the marriage will not be islamicly valid.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
I know one boy who had that upbringing.
He was in my primary school, he was adopted my 'two mummies'. It wasn't allowed by law in those days, but one of the women said she was single and adopted him as a lone parent.
Her parter (the boy's other mum) was the headteacher at my school.
I don't know if it was to do with having lesbian parents, having to keep it a secret from everyone, homophobic teasing, the fact that he was adopted in the first place or just an unrelated case of mental illness bought on by cannabis, but he is one of the most messed-up people I've ever met. He was the type of person I couldn't trust in my house without supervising him. I met other people like that, but not people I'd known since we were 8 years old!
Then again, one of my best friends' brother turned out identical, and his parents are heterosexual and happily married!
The case is still open on this. One thing though: God chooses our (adoptive or not) parents.
Don't just do something! Stand there.
God created Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve.