Is following religion a choice for a child?

[quote=You]
He thinks a newborn should be asked whether it wants milk of fizz.[/quote]

I never said that

[quote=lollywood][quote=You]
He thinks a newborn should be asked whether it wants milk of fizz.[/quote]

I never said that[/quote]

I'm just paraphrasing your question in different terms.

Same concept. when children are young enough, you make the decisions for them in all aspects of life and hope that they are the right ones.

[quote=You]
I'm just paraphrasing your question in different terms.
[/quote]

I don't think that's fair tbh

[quote=You]
Same concept. when children are young enough, you make the decisions for them in all aspects of life and hope that they are the right ones.[/quote]

When it comes to health you make decisions that you as a parent think are going to be best for the child’a health and well being but religion is a different kettle of fish because you’re making decisions for the child only because you’ve been told or brain washed to think that they’re the best for them, each child is an individual with it’s own mind ideas thoughts and beliefs and it’s not the parents job to force their beliefs onto the child

Same thing. both are for the childs health, be it physical, mental or spiritual health.

Parents should try to give their children the best upbringing they can and that means also teaching the right morals, the right ethics, giving the right foods and teaching them Islam.

Any other way will mess them up in this life too by not giving a good mental model for them to adapt to.

You want to force parents to stop trying to do what they think is the best for their kids. How is that sensible in any way shape or form?

Besides if it doesnt hurt the child, I dont see what right anyone else has to tell the parent to not bring up their kids in the best way they think possible.

[quote=You]Same thing. both are for the childs health, be it physical, mental or spiritual health.
[/quote]
No

[quote=You]
Parents should try to give their children the best upbringing they can and that means also teaching the right morals, the right ethics, giving the right foods and teaching them Islam.
[/quote]

OK, give them the right morals food and all that but don't force your religion on them

[quote=You]
Any other way will mess them up in this life too by not giving a good mental model for them to adapt to.
[/quote]

So religious people are perfect in everyway? they don’t lie cheat and steal?

[quote=You]
You want to force parents to stop trying to do what they think is the best for their kids. How is that sensible in any way shape or form?
[/quote]

No, they can do what's best for the child when the child does not understand anything but when the child starts understanding things then they should not force religion on them but they're forced themselves to force as it's in their religion to do so
here is an example

Islam says if a child does not pray by the age of 7 or 8 beat it and make it pray what kind of religion is Islam it advocates the beating of innocent children in its scriptures

Besides if it doesnt hurt the child, I dont see what right anyone else has to tell the parent to not bring up their kids in the best way they think possible.[/quote]

Islam says if a child does not pray by the age of 7 or 8 beat it and make it pray what kind of religion is Islam it advocates the beating of innocent children in its scriptures

Maybe you should find out what the 'beat' means in the sentence. I'm not gonna go into detail but it doesn't mean that you beat the living day lights outta them... let me quote:
"And beat them..." has been explained by Ibn Abidin, the great Syrian jurist, as being with the hands and not with a rod, and that this should also not exceed three strikes (Radd al- munhtar 1:235).[A] The purpose is discipline, so it is forbidden to inflict wounds or cause injury through such beating."

Also, according to you, you think that a parent only 'forces' their child to believe in Islam becuase they have been brainwashed to do so kinda thing...right? Ok, so let me pose you question... if a parent is a revert/convert to Islam, and when he/she brings up thier kids, they teach them the islamic way of living and being a muslim... are they too brainwashed???

Nasheedgirl wrote:

we just popped out of nowhere and we came out made Purrfectly...right? Wrong.

Wrong because it's perfectly

My English is not very good

You said so yourself, maybe you don't understand tones in language... but then again, your signature proves it doesn't it.

[quote=Nasheedgirl]
Maybe you should find out what the 'beat' means in the sentence. I'm not gonna go into detail but it doesn't mean that you beat the living day lights outta them... let me quote:
"And beat them..." has been explained by Ibn Abidin, the great Syrian jurist, as being with the hands and not with a rod, and that this should also not exceed three strikes (Radd al- munhtar 1:235).[A] The purpose is discipline, so it is forbidden to inflict wounds or cause injury through such beating."
[/quote]

Please, don't you think that's bad enough?

[quote=Nasheedgirl]
Also, according to you, you think that a parent only 'forces' their child to believe in Islam becuase they have been brainwashed to do so kinda thing...right?
[/quote]

Not only Islam whatever religion the patents themselves believe in

[quote=Nasheedgirl]
Ok, so let me pose you question... if a parent is a revert/convert to Islam, and when he/she brings up thier kids, they teach them the islamic way of living and being a muslim... are they too brainwashed???
[/quote]

They would've only converted to Islam after being brain washed

Or they find Islam fully logical.

It is atheism which is illogical.

You position is also illogical because you are asking parents to not bring their children up in ways they consider best. Its like asking them too bring up failures on purpose - a crazy illogical idea based on your personal desires and illiberal attitude and nothing else.

[quote=lollywood][/quote]

There's more to academic education than the job interview, there's also more to reigious or spiritual education than reciting Sura Fatiha, in fact did you know, academic education can also be a form of worship in Islam?
People who are spiritual/religious are happier (by in large) than those who are not. So it is important, if you look beyond the paper.

Not every Muslim follows the older Pakistani generation.
If praying in Arabic seems weird to you, then the answer is...... to understand and learn Arabic and what you're saying, that will actually be better for you in the hereafter.
Secondly, the recitation is more authentic to the Quran if it's done in Arabic, translation has some danger of loosing the meaning, but so long as you're aware of this then it should be fine. That's why we recite in Arabic.
Also, no Allah doesn't answer prayers only in Arabic, when you make a dua/supplication to Allah, he will answer that Inshallah, regardless of language.

These people who kill for the Akhirat are misguided, they do it for themselves, their egos or for their false leaders. They don't understand the spirit of Islam or the hereafter.
I think we've pointed this out to you, but the "72 virgins" thing is not in the Quran, its what an American general made up about a Turkish king.

Lollywood, I have a challenge for you.
A)Listen to the points that are being made without assuming certain things.
B) When you make an argument back it up, elaborate and be concise- don't just say what you think and say the same thing over and over unless you think we've misunderstood your point.
C) Don't leave your points/arguments half baked, conclude your point. I'll give you an example: arguing for heavy prison sentences and if someone else points out the low rehabilitation rate, but then you saying that that's better than nothing. That's an unconcluded argument that isn't backed up.

Seriously, consider applying this to your posts, it'll make everyone's life easier, including your own.

[quote=The Lamp]

There's more to academic education than the job interview, there's also more to reigious or spiritual education than reciting Sura Fatiha, in fact did you know, academic education can also be a form of worship in Islam?
[/quote]

I didn’t know that

[quote=The Lamp]
People who are spiritual/religious are happier (by in large) than those who are not. So it is important, if you look beyond the paper.
[/quote]
I don't think so

[quote=The Lamp]
Not every Muslim follows the older Pakistani generation.
[/quote]

Pakistani Muslims want you to learn Arabic, Arabic has nothing to do with us as Pakistani’s or British Pakistani’s the language we speak is Urdu or Punjabi it might have some words taken from Arabic but that does not mean we have anything to do with Arabic or Arabs

We‘re suffering from an identity crises
The languages we speak Urdu Punjabi are similar languages to Hindu’s – We don’t speak Arabic by birth like the Arabs do- our script has letters taken from Hindi
TEY, CHE, GAAF, REE, Arabic doesn’t have these letters in its language but ours does

The cloths we wear are similar to Indians- another disturbing thing I’ve noticed is that Pakistan women are wearing saris at special occasions and they’re also wearing a matching coloured “Bindi” to go wit the sari

Our Weddings are based on Hindu customs the only Muslin thing we do in a wedding is Nikah, when ever you go to a Pakistani wedding 99% of the time you will hear Indian Music

[quote=The Lamp]
If praying in Arabic seems weird to you, then the answer is...... to understand and learn Arabic and what you're saying, that will actually be better for you in the hereafter.
Secondly, the recitation is more authentic to the Quran if it's done in Arabic, translation has some danger of loosing the meaning, but so long as you're aware of this then it should be fine. That's why we recite in Arabic.
[/quote]

Why does it have danger of loosing meaning?

[quote=The Lamp]
Also, no Allah doesn't answer prayers only in Arabic, when you make a dua/supplication to Allah, he will answer that Inshallah, regardless of language.
[/quote]

Have you tried? has it worked?

[quote=The Lamp]
These people who kill for the Akhirat are misguided, they do it for themselves, their egos or for their false leaders. They don't understand the spirit of Islam or the hereafter.
[/quote]

But they do it in the name of religion

[quote=The Lamp]
the "72 virgins" thing is not in the Quran,
its what an American general made up about a Turkish king.
[/quote]

No they are called Hoor in Urdu I don't know about Arabic and this is what they are suppose to look like

A hoor is a girl of tender age, having large breasts which are round (pointed), and not inclined to dangle. Hoor dwell in palaces of splendid surroundings

The concept of 72 virgins in Islam refers to an aspect of paradise. In a collection by Imam at-Tirmidhi in his "Sunan" (Volume IV, Chapters on "The Features of Heaven as described by the Messenger of Allah", chapter 21: "About the Smallest Reward for the People of Heaven", hadith 2687) and also quoted by Ibn Kathir in his Tafsir (Qur'anic Commentary) of Surah Quran 55:72, it is stated:

'The smallest reward for the people of Heaven is an abode where there are eighty thousand servants and seventy-two hoors

I think your whole argument goes down the draim when you consider that we in the UK speak english.

You can stick to your urdu/punjabi/hindi if you like.

If you really were as "progressive" as you suggest, you would be suggesting that the language that people speak over here is the important one, not the one spoken back then back home.

Your whole argument it seems to be - apart from just posting random stuff - that people and communities should not adapt or change.

I will like to suggest something: that since all nations were sent prophets and messengers, even far out religions such as hinduism (in its many guises - its not one religion) would be a twisting of an actual monotheistic faith that was preached in the place in times gone by.

@ The Lamp - he is not here to reason. you are just giving him an avenue to keep talking without making sense. Ignore him for he has no real point and if you do refute what he says, he will just start talking about something else instead.

[quote=You]I think your whole argument goes down the draim when you consider that we in the UK speak english.
[/quote]
We do, but a lot of our parents don't
[quote=You]
You can stick to your urdu/punjabi/ if you like.
[/quote]
and English
[quote=You]
If you really were as "progressive" as you suggest, you would be suggesting that the language that people speak over here is the important one, not the one spoken back then back home.
[/quote]
Both are but our parents want us to learn Arabic

[quote=You]
Your whole argument it seems to be - apart from just posting random stuff - that people and communities should not adapt or change.
[/quote]

I posted stuff about hoors because lamp said it's not true

[quote=You]
I will like to suggest something: that since all nations were sent prophets and messengers, even far out religions such as hinduism (in its many guises - its not one religion) would be a twisting of an actual monotheistic faith that was preached in the place in times gone by.
[/quote]

Hinduism is messed up they worship many gods and even animals, I think they also worship male and female private parts

If people were happy with Buddhism, Hinduism, Islam, then why did a lot of Hindu’s and Muslims convert to Sikhism? I’m not saying that Sikhism is right- I believe it’s a mixture of Hinduism and Sufi Islam they also believe in Muslim saints like Baba Fareeduddin Ganjshakar, what I’m trying to say is that another religion was made when 3 or more religions were lready available, does that indicate that people did not have faith in them?

The Shaytaan always tries to twist the truth and has done for a long time and with the message of all other prophets too.

The idea is to mix a little of the truth with lies in order to make the lies more appealing.

That doesnt mean its right.