Pop Culture in the Name of Islam

Tushu —

It seem as though the classic na'at khwan and nasheed reciters are a dying breed. Everyone now seems to be using music which is a subject of dispute amongst the scholars.

I think the following article is highly relevant in this regard:

Pop Culture in the Name of Islam
YVONNE RIDLEY
Monday, April 24, 2006

I FEEL very uncomfortable about the pop culture which is growing around some so-called Nasheed artists. Of course I use the term 'Nasheed artists' very lightly. Islamic 'boy bands' and Muslim 'popsters' would probably be more appropriate.

Eminent scholars throughout history have often opined that music is haram, and I don't recall reading anything about the Sahaba whooping it up to the sound of music. Don't get me wrong. I'm all for people letting off steam, but in a dignified manner and one which is appropriate to their surroundings.

The reason I am expressing concern is that just a few days ago at a venue in Central London, sisters went wild in the aisles as some form of pop-mania swept through the concert venue. And I'm not just talking about silly, little girls who don't know any better; I am talking about sisters in their 20's, 30's and 40's, who squealed, shouted, swayed and danced. Even the security guys who looked more like pipe cleaners than bulldozers were left looking dazed and confused as they tried to stop hijabi sisters from standing on their chairs. Of course the stage groupies did not help at all as they waved and encouraged the largely female Muslim crowd to "get up and sing along." (They're called 'Fluffers' in lap-dancing circles!)

Do we blame the out-of-control sisters? Or do we blame the organizers for allowing this sort of excessive behavior which demeans Islam? Or do we blame the artists themselves?

How many will jump up and down and wave their arms in the air, shouting wildly for justice for our kin in Kashmir, Afghanistan, Chechnya, Palestine, and Iraq? There are many more killing fields as well across the Asian and Arab world. Will you climb on theater chairs and express your rage over Guantanamo Bay and other gulags where our brothers and sisters are being tortured, raped, sodomized, beaten, and burned?

Or will you just switch off this concerned sister and switch on to the likes of Sami Yusuf because he can sell you a pipe dream with his soothing words and melodic voice?

Oh, Muslims, wake up! The Ummah is not bleeding; it is hemorrhaging. Listen not to what is haram. Listen to the pain of your global family.

[url=http://www.dailymuslims.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1…]

I'll stick to Sidi Owais. He is the man.

[b]TOPIC SPLIT FROM NAATS/NASHEED THREAD[/b]

Forum

Angel — Sun, 25 Jun 2006 - 00:22

See this is the exact reason why i said we ourselves who are not educated to the level of the scholars can accuse the other opinion of being false and that we should respect both opinions becoz these scholars have done in depth studies and dont just make views out of the blue! (Last time i said that i got a silly reply back from med)

There are two views on music, now if one hasnt checked out Ahadith indepth cannot say one view is wrong and the other is correct, actually no scholar says the views of previous scholars is wrong, this is known as "difference of opnion".

Medarris — Sun, 25 Jun 2006 - 00:35

First off I didnt say music was shirk. I was saying that people recommend shirk, so recommending a haraam act is a minor issue.

Secondly I wont presume to comment on ahadeeth. And trying to make me say something abt Nabi salallahu alayhi wa sallam is a foolish endeavour- because however bad I am - I aint that mad as to comment on Nabi salallahu alayhi wa sallam.

But the point with ahadeeth is that unless your an alim of the highest calibre you cant comment on it. I can provide ahadeeth permitting mut'ah, I can provide full ahadeeth mentioning how jaleel o qadr Personalities approached salaah whilst intoxicated. But that doesnt prove anything. I can provide ahadeeth that an Ummul Mu'mineen was buried without having any janaazah salaah read over her.

In regard music - you're reason for being off with me is that I dont think theres a difference of opinion on it. You do. If its haraam I'll say its haraam simple as that.

And anyways I thought you were muqallid? Quoting ahadeeth out of context with no sharah is something very bad. I quoted a full article from a respected Alim.

Khayr - I've said what I need to on this. Bas.

Angel — Sun, 25 Jun 2006 - 00:48

[quote="Med"]First off I didnt say music was shirk. I was saying that people recommend shirk, so recommending a haraam act is a minor issue.

[/quote]

How do people recommend shirk, in what way :?

Medarris — Sun, 25 Jun 2006 - 00:49

[quote="Angel"][quote="Med"]First off I didnt say music was shirk. I was saying that people recommend shirk, so recommending a haraam act is a minor issue.

[/quote]

How do people recommend shirk, in what way :?[/quote]

No comment!!

You — Sun, 25 Jun 2006 - 00:51

[quote="Med"]First off I didnt say music was shirk. I was saying that people recommend shirk, so recommending a haraam act is a minor issue.[/quote]

I never said you called music shirk.

I know exactly what you called shirk, and what/who you were referring to. That is why I said you are on thin ice and that was one of the things you were originally banned for.

Just a reminder, calling , or infering some muslim here is a mushrik will still earn you a ban.

[quote]Secondly I wont presume to comment on ahadeeth. And trying to make me say something abt Nabi salallahu alayhi wa sallam is a foolish endeavour- because however bad I am - I aint that mad as to comment on Nabi salallahu alayhi wa sallam.[/quote]

Well you did bring up the ahadith even after I had warned you. You did not post a scholarly opinion, but a lik to some hadith. Now stop acting holier than thou, and tell the truth. You wanted to make their minds using those ahadith.

And good to see you are not arrogant enough to atleast take the last of the three options available to you. But sorry to see you have not absolved yourself from the second one.

[quote]But the point with ahadeeth is that unless your an alim of the highest calibre you cant comment on it. I can provide ahadeeth permitting mut'ah, I can provide full ahadeeth mentioning how jaleel o qadr Personalities approached salaah whilst intoxicated. But that doesnt prove anything. I can provide ahadeeth that an Ummul Mu'mineen was buried without having any janaazah salaah read over her. [/quote]

So again, why did you link to ahadith, when that is what you think of reading them without guidance? It seems hypocritical to only bring this up when there are ahadith to support an opposing stance to yours.

[quote]In regard music - you're reason for being off with me is that I dont think theres a difference of opinion on it. You do. If its haraam I'll say its haraam simple as that. [/quote]

Imam Ghazzali Disagrees with your high opinion. So do a number of other prominent scholars.

[wuote]And anyways I thought you were muqallid? Quoting ahadeeth out of context with no sharah is something very bad. I quoted a full article from a respected Alim.[/quote]

And I never said 'its all good'. What I said was that it is complicated with many diferent opinions by diferent scholars. I did not disprespect any of them by sayign their opinion is incorrect. Unlike you, who say there is no differece of opinion, marginalising the opinions of major scholars.

[quote]Khayr - I've said what I need to on this. Bas.[/quote]

You cannot just call it a day that simply. Well you can. but it looks like throwing your hands up in a strop.

I can argue quite fiercely. In the future if you do not want a fukkl blooded debate, do not start one. I was especially nice when I warned you off this the first time.

The second time is just gauding. You know it. Stop acting high and mighty about it as if you have been wronged. You know the stakes. You posted the ahadith. now you cannot be hypocritical about it and say they need to be interpreted by scholars. That is also the case with the ahadith you posted.

I also linked to a full article, but provided choice quotes, expecting you to actually read the article. It is full of answers by scholars (mentioned by name) that they asked about this.

Angel — Sun, 25 Jun 2006 - 01:08

Yeah you say bas when you realise your in the wrong. You knw what your problem is med, you cant accept others views, you think you are right and thats where it ends, welcome to the real world! Learn to accept others views and admit when you're wrong.

*DUST* — Sun, 25 Jun 2006 - 02:26

[quote="Admin"][quote]Al Bukhari Volume 7, Book 69, Number 494v:

The Two Festivals (Eids) - Narrated Aisha: Abu Bakr came to my house while two small Ansari girls were singing beside me the stories of the Ansar concerning the Day of Buath. And they were not singers. Abu Bakr said protestingly, "Musical instruments of Satan in the house of Allah's Apostle !" It happened on the 'Id day and Allah's Apostle said, "O Abu Bakr! There is an 'Id for every nation and this is our 'Id." [/quote][/quote]
the reference doesn't match with the hadith.

btw why are you being so aggressive admin? :|

You — Sun, 25 Jun 2006 - 04:53

Just I advised him off the topic before. I know people disagree. Vehemently.

People have diferent views.

So I warned him off.

But once into argument, he uses his old tricks 'leave it to scholars' 'I will mention ahadith, but we cannot discuss the ahadith you mention as we are not scholars'. He should have done that at the start... I just asked for him to respect the fact that there is a diference of opinion. WHich he still does not do, but I'll leave that for now.

Think of it a lesson, Admin stylee.

(I cannot teach to save my life as this lesson shows!)

Got the reference from that link, so not cross referenced it myself.

Medarris — Sun, 25 Jun 2006 - 09:26

[quote="*DUST*"]
the reference doesn't match with the hadith.
[/quote]

[quote="Admin"]
Got the reference from that link, so not cross referenced it myself.[/quote]

In the land of the blind - the one eyed man is king. :twisted:

Btw admin just read your link. That article could be ripped apart by me let alone an alim. Basic knowledge is enough to discredit it as well as the contradictions in it itself. If you find a better article in your studies on the net then PM it to me please.

You — Sun, 25 Jun 2006 - 13:01

You said 'BAS' did you not?

I do not care if you agree with the other opinion, as long as you agree there is one.

And to be frank, I got better things to do.

Unless you wanna continue the punch and judy show.

*DUST* — Mon, 26 Jun 2006 - 20:45

[quote="Admin"]Got the reference from that link, so not cross referenced it myself.[/quote]
i know the reference was from the link. is it a trustworthy source?

the correct reference is: Sahih Bukhari, Volume 2, Book 15, Hadith Number 72.

You — Mon, 26 Jun 2006 - 20:58

[quote="MuslimSisLilSis"]:shock:

didnt know Mr Admin had a clever side

i'm impressed[/quote]

Don't be overly impressed. I did make quite a few errors there, as have been pointed out. and also a 'possible slander'.

I have the gift of sounding intelligent. :twisted:

About the course (MYNA Raps) No idea if they are trustworthy.

I did look into, and lilisten to a few songs of theirs, which I believe were quite catchy, a couple of years ago, just to check them out. Cannot remember what I decided on the group... or even if I had any opinions.

To be honest, this is not my topic. I rarely listen to music. Not because I am not sure of its status, but because its mostly boring.