The Niqab In the West

MuslimSister —

Salaam

Rahmanara Chowdhury is a bright, affable woman with a charming laugh and an approachable manner. She is a part-time teacher in Loughborough and, given her friendly disposition, it's not surprising that her subject is communication. What is unexpected is that she teaches teenagers 'interpersonal skills, teamwork, personal development' while dressed in an outfit that conceals her whole body and face, except for the eyes.

Chowdhury is one of a growing number of Muslim women in Britain who choose to wear the niqab, the veil that leaves only the eyes on public view. Where once the sight of a fully hidden woman was restricted to a few traditionalist communities, nowadays it is not unusual to see the niqab on high streets throughout the major cities of England and in a number of smaller towns. Just a decade ago, this form of enshrouding was seen as an unambiguous sign of female oppression and feudal custom, but now it is frequently referred to as an expression of religious identity, individual rights and even, in some cases, female emancipation.

If wearing a niqab is an assertion of Chowdhury's individual and human rights, what does it say about the rights of others about her and her responsibilities to the students under her charge? Can they really gain a full understanding of personal communication skills when their teacher conceals that part of the human anatomy that is designed for universal communication: the face? Is there not a problem in explaining the subtleties of facial gestures and non-verbal dialogue?

'No, not really,' Chowdhury argued from behind her veil as we sat together in a busy hall in Loughborough University. 'I've had to teach those things, but it shifts to verbal skills.'

[url=http://observer.guardian.co.uk/review/story/0,6903,1646389,00.html]Guar…]

I was talking about job discrimination with a Niqabi friend of mine (she doesn’t view the Niqab as being Fard)… she believed that people who wear the Niqab are rightfully discriminated against in jobs.

My thoughts on this issue are not black and white…

The face is very expressive and one can tell a lot about someone by just looking at their face, one can relate to someone more so if the face is on display....in professions such as teaching or working with kids this is important…

This issue is very interesting. And I do NOT wish to discuss whether or not Niqab is Fard/wajib or Mubah etc We should accept that differences of opinion exist on this issue and we should learn to respect them…I just want to bring up the implications and limitations (if any) of wearing a Niqab full time in the West.

How do YOU view a Niqabi? Do you (Niqabi’s) ever face job discrimination? Is it important to keep the face on display when working in certain professions?

How do you (Niqabi’s) travel, especially with the security situation post-9/11 and 7/7?

Does covering the face attract more attention? Is it necessary? Can it be harmful? And how do you (non Muslims) perceive the Niqab?

Share your thoughts..

Wasalaam

Forum

MuslimSisLilSis — Fri, 2 Dec 2005 - 22:54

[quote="Constantine"]I never took it out on anyone in particular - it was complicated.[/quote]

point is-ur back

admit it-u cant live without us

how long before u left did u start having withdrawal symptons? :twisted:

Dave — Fri, 2 Dec 2005 - 22:58

[quote="MuslimSisLilSis"][quote="Constantine"]I never took it out on anyone in particular - it was complicated.[/quote]

point is-ur back

admit it-u cant live without us

how long before u left did u start having withdrawal symptons? :twisted:[/quote]

lol well after about 3 weeks I started checking to see how people were.

MuslimSisLilSis — Fri, 2 Dec 2005 - 23:02

[quote="Med"]

If a hundred so called alims today say the face can be exposed in this age then it makes no difference. Uttering fallacies and giving incorrect rulings on clear cut issues are baseless and utter rubbish.

.[/quote]

thats either ur view or the view of ur teachers

but who cares-most people here follow the teachers of "ahle biddah" (ur words/teachers words-not mine)

and they dont hold the view that u have to cover ur face

so I doubt most girls here would agree with u

Dave — Fri, 2 Dec 2005 - 23:05

Lets not break out the ahle bidah stuff just yet - he just got back

lol and am I the only person here that doesn't think med is evil?!

Sirus — Fri, 2 Dec 2005 - 23:15

yes you do dave

i have now dissasociated myself with the Ahlul Biddah, and my allegiances lie with the Gajar ka Halwa. By us, we prefer to be called Ahlul Halwa

If there is any fault in my Halwa, it is by me and not Jamie Oliver.

I pray we all learn to cook the beloved Halwa in such a manner that pleases our Ustaad's

AMEEEN YA RABBUL ALAMEEEN

MuslimSisLilSis — Fri, 2 Dec 2005 - 23:16

[quote="Ahlul Halwa"]yes you do dave

i have now dissasociated myself with the Ahlul Biddah, and my allegiances lie with the Gajar ka Halwa. By us, we prefer to be called Ahlul Halwa

If there is any fault in my Halwa, it is by me and not Jamie Oliver.

I pray we all learn to cook the beloved Halwa in such a manner that pleases our Ustaad's

AMEEEN YA RABBUL ALAMEEEN[/quote]

LOL!!!!!!!!!! 😃

ur the man Hayder

tell it like it is

*DUST* — Wed, 18 Jan 2006 - 12:26

http://www.therevival.co.uk/newsblog/?p=35

so the niqab has been banned at Imperial and Kings College in London... and im not sure how i feel about it...

i dont think Muslims should get all mad and confrontational - obviously ppl have this security concern now, we should be calm and explain... rather than cursing the unis and getting into headlock with them, like ive seen some ppl suggest...

the unis have got a fair point. we're nowhere near france and i think we've had things increasingly tolerant up to now in England. its our turn to give in a little, and seeing as how niqab isnt considered fard by the majority of muslims, i dont see y not. theyv said religious reasons will be considered tho. so its not set in stone, girls can appeal for their individual cases if they feel the need. IMO its nothing to bang our heads over.

and no-one can say i'm anti-niqaab because i'm a part-time niqaabi myself. 😛

Medarris — Wed, 18 Jan 2006 - 13:29

[quote="*DUST*"]
and no-one can say i'm anti-niqaab because i'm a part-time niqaabi myself. :P[/quote]

I dont think sticking up a pic of an xwomen with her face covered constitutes being a "part time niqabi"!

[size=7]joke yeh[/size]

Ramz — Wed, 18 Jan 2006 - 15:29

[quote="*DUST*"]
i dont think Muslims should get all mad and confrontational - obviously ppl have this security concern now, we should be calm and explain... rather than cursing the unis and getting into headlock with them, like ive seen some ppl suggest...

[/quote]

I agree. Its not like hijaab has been banned or Muslims are asked to eat pig. Its just the Niqab which sometimes invites trouble.

My sister in law took her one off after she was abused whenever she went out wearing it.

*DUST* — Thu, 19 Jan 2006 - 09:03

so i signed the petition.

more for the Prayer facillities than for niqab - people seem to have their priorities mixed up, i mean what's more important?! :roll:

Dave — Thu, 19 Jan 2006 - 13:14

[quote="Med"][quote="*DUST*"]
and no-one can say i'm anti-niqaab because i'm a part-time niqaabi myself. :P[/quote]

I dont think sticking up a pic of an xwomen with her face covered constitutes being a "part time niqabi"!

[size=7]joke yeh[/size][/quote]

lol

yashmaki — Thu, 19 Jan 2006 - 14:29

i stopped going into town for a while after the july bombings, for safety concerns. But since then i've decided i can't let it restrict me. Although i rarely go town, if i need to i go early morning and don't hang around wasting time. So generally i don't get abuse. I may get the odd mumbles or looks but that's inevitable even if you're wearing a headscarf, or traditional ethnic clothing. So what am i gonna do change who i am, what i believe in just coz of the ignorant few. When something bad happens ask of God, and He will deal with the offenders appropriately. I'm not saying curse these ppl, but rather ask of Allah. Allah can give us such comfort, that the next day you'll be thinking so what if i got abused, i'm soo over it.

I wonder if a woman who got abused coz her skirt was too short would start wearing longer ones to avoid abuse...somehow i doubt many would.

*DUST* — Thu, 19 Jan 2006 - 14:42

[quote="Don Karnage"][quote="Med"][quote="*DUST*"]
and no-one can say i'm anti-niqaab because i'm a part-time niqaabi myself. :P[/quote]

I dont think sticking up a pic of an xwomen with her face covered constitutes being a "part time niqabi"!

[size=7]joke yeh[/size][/quote]

lol[/quote]
not funny. :roll: 😛

yashmaki — Thu, 19 Jan 2006 - 14:52

whats a part time niqabi sis, i musta missed your comment. Do you mean sisters who wear the niqab to lectures, wedding gatherings etc?

*DUST* — Thu, 19 Jan 2006 - 14:57

[quote="yashmaki"]whats a part time niqabi sis, i musta missed your comment. Do you mean sisters who wear the niqab to lectures, wedding gatherings etc?[/quote]
yeh i'm a 'part-time niqabi' - as in i wear it when i feel the need, such as when i'm going to mixed gatherings, going out with make-up on, etc.

MuslimSister — Thu, 19 Jan 2006 - 16:50

[quote="*DUST*"]
i dont think Muslims should get all mad and confrontational - obviously ppl have this security concern now, we should be calm and explain... rather than cursing the unis and getting into headlock with them, like ive seen some ppl suggest...

the unis have got a fair point. we're nowhere near france and i think we've had things increasingly tolerant up to now in England. its our turn to give in a little, and seeing as how niqab isnt considered fard by the majority of muslims, i dont see y not. theyv said religious reasons will be considered tho. so its not set in stone, girls can appeal for their individual cases if they feel the need. IMO its nothing to bang our heads over.

and no-one can say i'm anti-niqaab because i'm a part-time niqaabi myself. :P[/quote]

I totally agree with you Aasiyah...but thats only cos I don't consider the Niqab Fard.

However, I think those who do percieve the Niqab as Fard would look at the situation differently.

Angel — Thu, 19 Jan 2006 - 16:54

[quote="MuslimSister"]

I totally agree with you Aasiyah...but thats only cos I don't consider the Niqab Fard.

However, I think those who do percieve the Niqab as Fard would look at the situation differently.[/quote]

Yeah because for them its like tellin someone who dont do niqab(those who dont consider it fard) to take off their hijab (if that makes sense :? )

I rate sister's who the niqab! I tried it once it looks cool 🙂

MuslimSister — Thu, 19 Jan 2006 - 17:03

[quote="Angel"]
Yeah because for them its like tellin someone who dont do niqab(those who dont consider it fard) to take off their hijab (if that makes sense :? )

I rate sister's who the niqab! I tried it once it looks cool :)[/quote]

Exactly..

Though I don't strongly have an issue with the ban...sometimes it does attract dodgy/abusive attention. :?

But I'm not in a position to talk cos I don't wear one.

*DUST* — Thu, 19 Jan 2006 - 17:16

[quote="MuslimSister"]I totally agree with you Aasiyah...but thats only cos I don't consider the Niqab Fard.

However, I think those who do percieve the Niqab as Fard would look at the situation differently.[/quote]
ofcourse, but there's always the option to appeal on religious grounds for the girls who consider it fardh.

*DUST* — Thu, 19 Jan 2006 - 17:27

[quote="MuslimSister"]Though I don't strongly have an issue with the ban...sometimes it does attract dodgy/abusive attention. :?[/quote]
nah but personally i dont think thats a good enuf reason to stop wearing it - if someone is islamophobic enough to abuse a niqabi, there's nothing to stop them abusing a hijabi or jilbabi. we shouldnt live our lives according to what others may think, but by what we see as right.

if i'm destined to get mugged or sworn at, it'll happen regardless of whether i'm wearing hijab or niqab. (which is y i learnt karate!) 😉

MuslimSister — Thu, 19 Jan 2006 - 17:34

[quote="*DUST*"][quote="MuslimSister"]Though I don't strongly have an issue with the ban...sometimes it does attract dodgy/abusive attention. :?[/quote]
nah but personally i dont think thats a good enuf reason to stop wearing it - if someone is islamophobic enough to abuse a niqabi, there's nothing to stop them abusing a hijabi or jilbabi. we shouldnt live our lives according to what others may think, but by what we see as right.

if i'm destined to get mugged or sworn at, it'll happen regardless of whether i'm wearing hijab or niqab. (which is y i learnt karate!) :wink:[/quote]

Lol-I've go out with my Niqaabi friend a lot...I wear the Hijaab and she wears the Niqab.

I'm often ignored whilst she is verbally abused. Even she admits that sometimes its safer not to wear the Niaqab...

I believe that if you are abused a LOT because of it and it bothers you.... and you don't consider it Fard...you might as well take it off.

yashmaki — Thu, 19 Jan 2006 - 17:41

i've noticed i get ignored a lot, the next sales assistant who blatantly ignores me is gona feel all the wrath, poor gal best take her day off soon. I mean whenever i go shopping with my husband in town, i'm the one purchasing the garment. It's so obvious coz it's a ladies shop, but the sales assistant will blatantly make eye contact with my husband, ask him for the money, when i'm the one with the money? The other day the lady said to my husband would you like a store card, earn points etc etc, she never once looked at me. I turned around and said actually i've already got one of them, don't use it. She said oh really, like gals with niqabs can't get store cards huh!

Wat would my husband want with a store card from a ladies shop! :x

*DUST* — Thu, 19 Jan 2006 - 17:41

[quote="MuslimSister"]I'm often ignored whilst she is verbally abused. Even she admits that sometimes its safer not to wear the Niaqab...

I believe that if you are abused a LOT because of it and it bothers you.... and you don't consider it Fard...you might as well take it off.[/quote]
wow thats wierd (that they ignore u and not her) but i guess ppl do see the niqab as more 'threatening' or something.

true, there's nothing stopping us from taking it off if we dont believe it's fardh, but different people wear it for very different reasons... i started wearing niqab for the first time to my co-ed college, i explained my reasons in the sisters forum i think, and they were important enough for me to keep it on regardless of any abuse i got (alhumdulillah i didnt get much).

so it does depend on one's reasoning and conviction.

*DUST* — Thu, 19 Jan 2006 - 17:42

[quote="yashmaki"]i've noticed i get ignored a lot, the next sales assistant who blatantly ignores me is gona feel all the wrath, poor gal best take her day off soon. I mean whenever i go shopping with my husband in town, i'm the one purchasing the garment. It's so obvious coz it's a ladies shop, but the sales assistant will blatantly make eye contact with my husband, ask him for the money, when i'm the one with the money? The other day the lady said to my husband would you like a store card, earn points etc etc, she never once looked at me. I turned around and said actually i've already got one of them, don't use it. She said oh really, like gals with niqabs can't get store cards huh!

Wat would my husband want with a store card from a ladies shop! :x[/quote]
LOL. but gosh yeh, that can get SO annoying. :evil:

star — Thu, 19 Jan 2006 - 18:43

[quote="*DUST*"]whether i'm wearing hijab or niqab. (which is y i learnt karate!) :wink:[/quote]

you know karate !! wicked LOL....

is there anything tomboyish u havent done ? 😛

Medarris — Thu, 19 Jan 2006 - 20:49

Women who observe hijab are to be congratulated. It is indeed a great virtue for a person born/brought up in the lap of indecency and immodesty to adopt the way of modesty and bashfulness.

Those women who observe the hijab should observe it in all cases.

Going to the city centre, or going to the local shops.
Opening the door or going into the front garden.
Emerging in daytime and in the nightime.
In this country or backhome.

In ALL cases the hijab observing believing lady should be constant and steadfast.

What is th point of having the face closed in the day but leaving it open at night? Or keeping it closed in UK but having it open in Pak/Bangdsh/Saudia etc.

*DUST* — Thu, 19 Jan 2006 - 22:55

[quote="Med"]In ALL cases the hijab observing believing lady should be constant and steadfast.

What is th point of having the face closed in the day but leaving it open at night? Or keeping it closed in UK but having it open in Pak/Bangdsh/Saudia etc.[/quote]
u wouldnt understand because ur a guy - the reasons behind y women wear the niqab are wide and varied, each is influenced by their personal experiences/environment.

naj, there isnt really anything particularly tomboyish about karate - IMO its more important for girls than it is for guys. 🙂