The Niqab In the West

MuslimSister —

Salaam

Rahmanara Chowdhury is a bright, affable woman with a charming laugh and an approachable manner. She is a part-time teacher in Loughborough and, given her friendly disposition, it's not surprising that her subject is communication. What is unexpected is that she teaches teenagers 'interpersonal skills, teamwork, personal development' while dressed in an outfit that conceals her whole body and face, except for the eyes.

Chowdhury is one of a growing number of Muslim women in Britain who choose to wear the niqab, the veil that leaves only the eyes on public view. Where once the sight of a fully hidden woman was restricted to a few traditionalist communities, nowadays it is not unusual to see the niqab on high streets throughout the major cities of England and in a number of smaller towns. Just a decade ago, this form of enshrouding was seen as an unambiguous sign of female oppression and feudal custom, but now it is frequently referred to as an expression of religious identity, individual rights and even, in some cases, female emancipation.

If wearing a niqab is an assertion of Chowdhury's individual and human rights, what does it say about the rights of others about her and her responsibilities to the students under her charge? Can they really gain a full understanding of personal communication skills when their teacher conceals that part of the human anatomy that is designed for universal communication: the face? Is there not a problem in explaining the subtleties of facial gestures and non-verbal dialogue?

'No, not really,' Chowdhury argued from behind her veil as we sat together in a busy hall in Loughborough University. 'I've had to teach those things, but it shifts to verbal skills.'

[url=http://observer.guardian.co.uk/review/story/0,6903,1646389,00.html]Guar…]

I was talking about job discrimination with a Niqabi friend of mine (she doesn’t view the Niqab as being Fard)… she believed that people who wear the Niqab are rightfully discriminated against in jobs.

My thoughts on this issue are not black and white…

The face is very expressive and one can tell a lot about someone by just looking at their face, one can relate to someone more so if the face is on display....in professions such as teaching or working with kids this is important…

This issue is very interesting. And I do NOT wish to discuss whether or not Niqab is Fard/wajib or Mubah etc We should accept that differences of opinion exist on this issue and we should learn to respect them…I just want to bring up the implications and limitations (if any) of wearing a Niqab full time in the West.

How do YOU view a Niqabi? Do you (Niqabi’s) ever face job discrimination? Is it important to keep the face on display when working in certain professions?

How do you (Niqabi’s) travel, especially with the security situation post-9/11 and 7/7?

Does covering the face attract more attention? Is it necessary? Can it be harmful? And how do you (non Muslims) perceive the Niqab?

Share your thoughts..

Wasalaam

Forum

yuit — Fri, 2 Dec 2005 - 12:20

[quote="seema*"]thank God thats over lilsis wins the day yet again[/quote]

Yeah she good at that, she wears you down, till u lose the will to live and finally accept defeat 😉

MuslimSisLilSis — Fri, 2 Dec 2005 - 12:22

well when u love to argue for the sake of argueing then u always get the last word- 😉

btw serioulsy is it practical for nurses, or teachers to be wearing Niqab?

laila — Fri, 2 Dec 2005 - 12:22

[quote="yuit"][quote="seema*"]thank God thats over lilsis wins the day yet again[/quote]

Yeah she good at that, she wears you down, till u lose the will to live and finally accept defeat :wink:[/quote]

lol

shes gonna be my lawyer from now on 😃

MuslimSisLilSis — Fri, 2 Dec 2005 - 12:25

[quote="seema*"][quote="yuit"][quote="seema*"]thank God thats over lilsis wins the day yet again[/quote]

Yeah she good at that, she wears you down, till u lose the will to live and finally accept defeat :wink:[/quote]

lol

shes gonna be my lawyer from now on :D[/quote]

I'd LOVE to be ur lawyer

atm I'm my sisters lawyer and angels-and Mr Ed's "cheerleader"-cos I like it when he cusses the extremists :twisted:

I' be more then happy to be ur too

laila — Fri, 2 Dec 2005 - 12:26

[quote="MuslimSisLilSis"]well when u love to argue for the sake of argueing then u always get the last word- 😉

btw serioulsy is it practical for nurses, or teachers to be wearing Niqab?[/quote]

yes of course if its worn hygenically for nurses and if you have a commanding voice - for teachers

laila — Fri, 2 Dec 2005 - 12:29

[quote="MuslimSisLilSis"]I meant-for interaction with students and patients

wouldnt they wish to relate to the teacher/docter?[/quote]

they can interact by their manner body language etc by the way are we talking of a niqaab that covers the eyes as well because if not then no probs eyes we all know express alot

MuslimSisLilSis — Fri, 2 Dec 2005 - 12:31

[quote="seema*"][quote="MuslimSisLilSis"]I meant-for interaction with students and patients

wouldnt they wish to relate to the teacher/docter?[/quote]

they can interact by their manner body language etc by the way are we talking of a niqaab that covers the eyes as well because if not then no probs eyes we all know express alot[/quote]

suppose ur right

but generally speaking-I've never come across a niqabi teacher/nurse

maybe I'm generalising but maybe those who wear Niqabs arent the type to work in mixed places?

yuit — Fri, 2 Dec 2005 - 12:34

Just out of interest, how is the niqab meant to be worn, I was in this different town a couple days ago and was walking pass this niqabi, and basically she kind of took it off to adjust it. Also why is it that some niqabi look perfectly find in one and you can walk pass them without noticing them but other tend to stick out more. :?

BTW at my sis college there quite a few niqabi taking childcre courses, so they do work.

laila — Fri, 2 Dec 2005 - 12:35

you know i've been thinking - being tanked up on lemsip really helps- you can wear the niqaab covering eyes one for just about any occupation including the army

women can do anything with one on - we will be free at last. its like we'll be travelling in our own mini tanks no one can touch us

we can go anywhere do anything and noone will know

niqaab is the true liberation of women

yuit — Fri, 2 Dec 2005 - 12:36

[quote="seema*"]you know i've been thinking - being tanked up on lemsip really helps- you can wear the niqaab covering eyes one for just about any occupation including the army

women can do anything with one on - we will be free at last. its like we'll be travelling in our own mini tanks no one can touch us

we can go anywhere do anything and noone will know

niqaab is the true liberation of women[/quote]

LOL are u sure it just lemsip u taking 😉

MuslimSisLilSis — Fri, 2 Dec 2005 - 12:37

some Niqabi's are part time ones-thats why they'll take it off when they are eating or lift it up when chatting to someone they know

either u can get the black niqabs that u tie at the back of ur head (them ones u can lift up for talking/eating

some know how to transform their hijaabs into Niqabs with a tiny safety pin-that IMO looks very neat and pretty

only problem with that style is that u cant easily lift it up for talking or eating without undoing the whole thing

yashmaki — Fri, 2 Dec 2005 - 13:29

ok i'll try and help. I always used to think how to do the different niqab styles now i pretty much know them all.

1) You said some niqabis stick out, maybe they;re wearing the triple layer niqabs. They normally have a spare veil which is flipped over the head, but can be flipped down to cover the eyes aswell. This tends to move about in the wind. And the veil covering the face tend to be quite long, long enough to cover chest area. They may not be the neatest but they offer full coverage, and they're easy to flip over. Example with eyes covered:

http://www.almuhajabat.com/images/prod/niqab-ummsahl.jpg

2) Then you have another similar veil to the one above cept it only has one layer to cover the face no extra layer over the head. So it can look neater example:

http://www.geocities.com/opulent_gardens/burqview.jpg

If this is tied under the headscarf rather than over the top it looks very neat. Match the niqab colour with the scarf and it looks like it's all one piece like here.:

http://www.muslimahconnection.com/images/niqabsets.jpg

3) Some sisters prefer the half niqab, it doesn't cover the forehead area. But and undercap can be worn to cover the forehead or the scarf can be pulled forward to cover it, some sisters do this:

http://www.muslimhomeschool.com/mhsnr/ED/phonics/images/niqab

http://www.superkaratemonkeyfist.com/niqab803_3616.jpeg

These half niqabs can be bought elasticated so you can pull it down easily. Or with tie strings, which obviously can't be pulled down without opening up. But you could eat under it.

4) tying the the headscarf into a niqab, not so practical for eating as mentioned by muslimsislilsis, but prob the most neat one around, this sisters done hers tight, with more fabric can be done looser:

http://doaa25.tripod.com/niqab/thumbnails/100x100/hotan.jpg

5) ok this is the last one for now given you most the popular ones already. Wearing a khimar which is a longer scarf which can go anywhere from head to thigh to head to foot. The niqab can be tied underneath looks very neat. Sometimes you can buy them with an attached niqab, but hard to get them in the uk, would look like this even though this ain't the correct article:

http://www.geocities.com/opulent_gardens/sagecombo.jpg

I look like that most days, my preferred style. Although i do wrap a headscarf into a niqab sometimes coz muslimsislilsis mentioned it, looks aight. It's prob the best style to wear with a coat. The khimars can't really be worn with coats gets too bulky then.

Ok that's your niqabi class part one done, exam soon so revise brother.

yuit — Fri, 2 Dec 2005 - 13:53

lol, cheers for that,you should really give each style it own unique name.

btw if any niqabi complain about me staring at them, trying to clock what style they got, i going to blame you :oops: .

judda — Fri, 2 Dec 2005 - 14:28

Most girls that where one are either forced to where it or they just look down at the west. :roll:

yashmaki — Fri, 2 Dec 2005 - 14:37

yeah i hate the west so much i went through their school system. I mingle with non muslim neighbours. I have non muslim friends. Lived here for 25 years of my life i hate it so much i don't wana leave. Boy i hate it.

My parents love the niqab so much they ridiculed me when i wear it. yeah juddah u make complete sense.

ppl like you need to sit down and ask yourself why are you so concerned about women who wear the niqab, even when they tell u they chose to wear it.You make out you're some freedom fighter trying to free oppressed muslim women. Well listen up we're not asking to be freed, i'm already free thank you very much. I don't need some hereo wanabe. Find another cause. There are plenty of orphans out their who need help, Plenty of ppl starving. Plenty of sexually abused women. Many causes choose a new one leave me out of this it's a lost cause.

yashmaki — Fri, 2 Dec 2005 - 14:42

yeah but judda you obviously haven't met any sisters like myself. I actually chose to wear it can you understand that? i best go chat later

judda — Fri, 2 Dec 2005 - 14:45

tell admin to gimmee my PM previelige back then we can talk on PM 😉

Medarris — Fri, 2 Dec 2005 - 14:51

Bismilllah,

I had left this forum but thought would add my piece to this topic. For peoples information it is only in ahnaaf where the obligatory nature of niqab was at one time debated, the other three madhahib according to my knowledge are most stringent on it in their books. The softness in ulama e ahnaaf was due to women being allowed to expose on condition that ther is NO risk of fitnah.

The ulama of ahnaaf have ruled that this is no longer the case, the fitnah has become widespread everywhere so the ruling is the same as with the other madhahib. Should be noted the hanafi ruling was NOT that she can expose her face, but if she fears mischief then she should cover it. NO. The hanafi ruling was she must cover the face, and is allowed to expose it IF there is NO risk of fitnah. But even then it is in n way encouraged or seen as good.

Alhamdulillah the ahnaaf of indo-pak-afghan are strong on this and the Salafiyya in saudia are mashaALLAH strong on this also. If a hundred so called alims today say the face can be exposed in this age then it makes no difference. Uttering fallacies and giving incorrect rulings on clear cut issues are baseless and utter rubbish.

This is not narrowmindedness. Some things are clear cut and cant be compromised. Eg if a group of Mufti's say that vodka is allowed cos the alcohol is chemical ethanol and is not derived from the produce mentioned in hadeeth viz grape,barley,date then it is no narrowmindedness to openly say they utter rubbish and they are on batil.

Similarly the issue of niqab/hijab was clear cut until about 30 yrs ago, it makes no difference if ppls misguided shaykhs or peers or ustaads start instigating the purdahnasheen women of islaam to unveil and debase themselves for those who have the modesty will clling to it, those who look for an excuse will undoubtedly find it.

Khan brother, u shud encourage your housepeople on this. Perhaps the people of your house find it hard to be only one person on this obligation, you as her husband can make a world of difference to her in giving her encouragement and support.

laila — Fri, 2 Dec 2005 - 15:00

are you back for good Med? if not why not? come back

cant you see whats happening

by the way dont agree with you

Angel — Fri, 2 Dec 2005 - 15:46

lol Med u said u weren't comin bak, the fact that u posted shows u hang bout and are back!

yashmaki — Fri, 2 Dec 2005 - 16:48

i admit the salafi women inspired me to wear the niqab. It was in a salafi bookstore that i was given a bunch of free literature one of which was about the hijab and niqab. My interest began there. Ironically i follow the hanafi madhab.

I think the salafi women i've met are remarkably strong independent women. They don't let the niqab hold them back, they're far from oppressed feeble women. Not that sisters from other madhabs aren't strong, they just happened to be the ones who got me thinking about the niqab intially. And whenever i see my somali sisters in their two piece burqas and matching niqabs walking with attitude i think wow masha'Allah power to the sisters 😃

Dave — Fri, 2 Dec 2005 - 22:44

[quote="MuslimSisLilSis"]Look who's baaaaack 😉 :roll:[/quote]

You left?

Why didn't you say anything?!

MuslimSisLilSis — Fri, 2 Dec 2005 - 22:46

[quote="Constantine"][quote="MuslimSisLilSis"]Look who's baaaaack 😉 :roll:[/quote]

You left?

Why didn't you say anything?![/quote]

not me Med ^^ look up

me and Hayder were discussing in the other thread about people who make a whole big fuss about leaving and come running back a few days later

but then again-u should be more clued up on the behaviour of such people :twisted: 😉

Dave — Fri, 2 Dec 2005 - 22:50

[quote="MuslimSisLilSis"][quote="Constantine"][quote="MuslimSisLilSis"]Look who's baaaaack 😉 :roll:[/quote]

You left?

Why didn't you say anything?![/quote]

not me Med ^^ look up

me and Hayder were discussing in the other thread about people who make a whole big fuss about leaving and come running back a few days later

but then again-u should be more clued up on the behaviour of such people :twisted: :wink:[/quote]

I uhh..

*ahem*

😃

You know your 12 point Times New Roman is looking very elegant today.

Anybody ever tell you, you have a comfortable air about you?

MuslimSisLilSis — Fri, 2 Dec 2005 - 22:51

[quote="Constantine"]

I uhh..

ahem...

😃

You know your 12 point Times New Roman is looking very elegant today.

Anybody ever tell you, you are really quite a pleasant person?[/quote]

:?:

Dave flattery will get u no where.

You still one of "them"

the ones who kick revival, make out as if ur too "good" for it" and then shamelessly come running back few dys later :twisted: