Shariah law & Crime

This is a vast subject 100 per cent leniency can be given if one chooses to forgive. You must read and read until you have some answers. Many times I have wanted an eye for an eye would you believe I can be very vengeful but then my husband talked me down each time saying its wiser to forgive for the benefit of my own soul of course I have to agree with him but one can't change ones nature. Islamic law is so good it gives chance for both options and many in between.

This reminds me of a talk on Quran tafseer by NAK. Think it was a few ayahs from Surah Baqarah.

Anyway he said how forgiveness is better than justice though justice is allowed.

If you forgive, Allah will forgive you.

ALSO he said true justice is very hard for people to get. Instead of justice people's emotions take over and they try to get revenge, which is obviously not the same and not allowed. Another reason why it's hard is because the same punishment is not always possible. E.g. if someone slaps you, you could slap them back - but how would you work out if your slap was as hard as the one you received? If you hit them harder then it's not true justice.

So it's better to leave the justice up to Allah

Asalaamu Alaikum,

It's a bit difficult to be convicted in the first place. Read this - http://qa.sunnipath.com/issue_view.asp?HD=1&ID=1895&CATE=12

[quote=ThE pOwEr Of SiLeNcE]Does context matter? E.g. would a poor person still have his hand cut off for stealing[/quote]

yes context matters, but a poor person would still be punished if there was no reason.

During the time of Hadhrat Umar (ra) there was a famine and during the famine punishment for crimes was stopped because people were forced into stealing food.

[quote=Patience]Aint that just an excuse?[/quote]

a famine?

yes context matters. for the hand chopping you have to steal over a certain amount and if you had a reason for stealing aka hunger or having to feed a family etc.. then your hand wouldnt be chopped off

same for adultery. to be stoned to death. the person accusing has got to have 4 witnesses who saw the act. (have i said this befoer on here?) and if he hasnt (got the witness) then he'll receive 80 lashes for accusing without proof.

[quote=ThE pOwEr Of SiLeNcE]Is there any leniency with the punishments? Or does every crime have to be punished?

[/quote]

no leniency. punishment have been establish by the all wise - Allah.

every crime have to be punished when all conditions are met and no doubts are present.

[quote=Lilly][quote=ThE pOwEr Of SiLeNcE]Is there any leniency with the punishments? Or does every crime have to be punished?

[/quote]

no leniency. punishment have been establish by the all wise - Allah.

every crime have to be punished when all conditions are met and no doubts are present.[/quote]
Obviously I didn't mean if we can go against what Allah has prescribed! I was talkig about the conditions

[quote=Lilly]yes context matters. for the hand chopping you have to steal over a certain amount and if you had a reason for stealing aka hunger or having to feed a family etc.. then your hand wouldnt be chopped off[/quote]

and neither would it be in most modern societies.

The punishment has to suit the situation and in a nomadic society, where justice was rare, on the few occasions it was done, it had to have the effect of putting people off from risking it.

In current society with better policing, the same level of deterrence is not required and we are also softer.

An application of the shariah law right here right now probably wouldnt allow for such things.

just a note: im not for applying shariah law in non-muslim country. but i do believe it should be applied in a muslim country. if the punishment of getting your hand chopped off was out there no one would steal and there would be no handchopping needed. and if someone did steal. that's just coz they're being wicked.

[quote=Patience][quote=Lilly][quote=Patience]Aint that just an excuse?[/quote]

a famine?
[/quote]

Being Poor.
And as far as famine is concerned shouldn't people be advised to have (wait for it) Patience and trust in Allah/God?

Most crimes will only be punished IF the guilty person ADMITS to it and wants to repent, otherwise it's only investigated objectively.[/quote]

well...i think not everyone will have THAT particular leel of patience where they'll be able to refrain from stealing when a famine strikes.

and basically. if the person is poor and forced to steal then its not punishable because basically there's being a problem in the smooth running of islamic state. coz no one should be starving. coz of the whole zakaah thing. and eating is a basic need. for all these reasons i find it amazingly fair that you dont get your hand chopped off for stealing for eating.

Admin said it doesn't apply to poor people generally.

Also they chop your hand off in Saudi

[quote=ThE pOwEr Of SiLeNcE]Admin said it doesn't apply to poor people generally. [/quote]

I meant that it shouldn't be thought of something that will apply automatically to anyone. Society has changed. The idea is justice and deterrence.

[quote=ThE pOwEr Of SiLeNcE]Also they chop your hand off in Saudi[/quote]

They do many things there, like destroy Islamic heritage to "stop idolatory" but then preserve actual idols in order to show Saudi heritage in museums.

Ok I'm confused now - so the poor can get away with it? :s
If yes, why, when begging isn't even recommended?
What do you base your statement on - the these kind of punishments should not apply today?
Which idol have the Saudi kept?

-

What happens if the conditions (stated in the link above, if anyone wants to know) aren't met? They're just told off?

hudood AFAIK means limits. These are the limits of punishment, not the only punishment.

You find other punishments for lesser crimes.

so the poor can get away with it?

no, but their context should be taken into account.

[quote=Lilly][quote=Patience][quote=Lilly][quote=Patience]Aint that just an excuse?[/quote]

a famine?
[/quote]

Being Poor.
And as far as famine is concerned shouldn't people be advised to have (wait for it) Patience and trust in Allah/God?

Most crimes will only be punished IF the guilty person ADMITS to it and wants to repent, otherwise it's only investigated objectively.[/quote]

well...i think not everyone will have THAT particular leel of patience where they'll be able to refrain from stealing when a famine strikes.

and basically. if the person is poor and forced to steal then its not punishable because basically there's being a problem in the smooth running of islamic state. coz no one should be starving. coz of the whole zakaah thing. and eating is a basic need. for all these reasons i find it amazingly fair that you dont get your hand chopped off for stealing for eating.[/quote]

Lilly, I strongly disagree with the notion that there can be no leniency. The verse after the each punishment allows for forgiveness and leniency where appropriate.

Actually, if somenoe is willing to genuinely repent for their actions, then in most cases the maximum penalty cannot be carried out, that's what the Prophet (pbuh) supported.

But I agree that Islam always says look at the roots of a particular problem before giving the punishment. The roots could be famine, force or drug abuse or whatever.

[quote=The Lamp]
Lilly, I strongly disagree with the notion that there can be no leniency. The verse after the each punishment allows for forgiveness and leniency where appropriate.

[/quote]

what do you mean by leniency. i dont evne know what i meant. imm too young to have strong opinions abt anything much, rationally. so you know. *Shrugs*

Yeah, I went back to what you wrote. What you described about the famine, that is leniency, believe it or not! 😉
Don't be too hard on yourself!

[quote=The Lamp]Yeah, I went back to what you wrote. What you described about the famine, that is leniency, believe it or not! 😉
Don't be too hard on yourself![/quote]

the way i see it.

Allah made these rules. and in His INFINITE WISDOM. he made the rules SO.. PERFECT that there is no need for leniency. i mean. can you really be lenient with the rules of punishment for zina? will you really push it and say "ohh i think 3 witness is enough, or the other way 5 witnesses should be given" instead of 4? or the one who accused chaste woman and couldnt provide the 4 witnesses. he's supose to receive 80 lashes, his testimony never taken again and he's considered a faasiq. does your definition of leniency mean that we give him 40 lashes coz..you know.. its [insert reason] and that we do take his testimony again?

all im saying is. the rules are freakingly awesomely perfect. i dont feel the need to bend them. and that MY understanding of leniency. bending the rules for a good cause. or something like that.

Lilly you're not understanding what we mean by leniency. We don't mean "can we bend Allah swt laws?" of course we can't. We mean has Allah Himself placed some leniency in His laws. Does His laws take require understanding and mercifulness? And of course they do.

By *asking* about leniency.***

It goes without saying that we can't bend Allah swt laws! How dare we!

[quote=ThE pOwEr Of SiLeNcE]Lilly you're not understanding what we mean by leniency. We don't mean "can we bend Allah swt laws?" of course we can't. We mean has Allah Himself placed some leniency in His laws. Does His laws take require understanding and mercifulness? And of course they do.[/quote]

it always condenses to how blond i am. or how i cant read. but i think this time it was also a mixture of how you didnt formulate your questions right.

Hey don't blame me! You didn't understand lampy either! :p

Lol sorry

[quote=ThE pOwEr Of SiLeNcE]Hey don't blame me! You didn't understand lampy either! :p

Lol sorry[/quote]

I BLAME YOU FULLY AND TOTALLY! (can i build another bonfire....)

Hadith -

"Repel the hudud from the Muslims whenever you can. If there is for him an escape, let him go free. It is better for the ruler (imam) to err in pardon than to err in punishment" - Al-Tirmidhi (Hadud 1424)

SubhanAllah.

[quote=Lilly][quote=ThE pOwEr Of SiLeNcE]Hey don't blame me! You didn't understand lampy either! :p

Lol sorry[/quote]

I BLAME YOU FULLY AND TOTALLY! (can i build another bonfire....)[/quote]

Bit harsh, no?

Where's your leniency, Lilly?

She doesn't believe in leniency lol

[quote=The Lamp]Where's your leniency, Lilly?[/quote]

#Silly Lilly, where did you niency go?# lool, it was in correlation with another topic and was relevant then. twas a bonfire time thing.

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