MPAC- TROUBLEMAKERS OR EXACTLY WHAT THE MUSLIMS NEED TODAY?

Sajid Iqbal —

SALAAM

MPAC- they're everywhere now? had that documentary and now they're on many TV channels, interviews etc.

They have a popular site
They ALWAYS bang on about mosques and Imaams...
They put alot of emphasis on being politically active, lobbying, voting etc
They are not shy to criticise Muslim leaders, politicians, Imaams etc Ajmal Masroor is their latest victim!

so what do you make of them? Are they exactly what we need? young, well spoken, energetic, lively, outspoken, active, Muslims who raise the right issues and promote political and religious activation aswell as accountablity of Muslim leaders...

or are they trouble makers? do they give Muslims a bad name? are they moaners? are they disrespectful of mosques and Imaams? do they not represent Muslims in the UK at all? are they out of touch?

ok ppl, share your views.....

wasalaam

Forum

MuslimSisLilSis — Tue, 26 Jul 2005 - 16:09

I like them-I like the way they talk

they do remind me of HT sumtimes cos their apprch is the same

my mate were passing her local Mosque and saw one of the MPAC guys point to some old guy and say louldy "evryone look this traitor votes for Labour" :roll:

they feel strongly about what they believe in

and I agree with much of what they say-they just need to calm down a bit

they're good speakers

my mums brother is one of them -he needs to stop cussing so much tho

MuslimSister — Wed, 27 Jul 2005 - 09:36

Salaam

Another thing with MPAC is that even though they’re very politically active they don’t really seem to focus on educating others on the teachings of Islam.

They have serious issues with all Mosques/Imams because they teach children about Islam yet don’t emphasize the importance of political lobbying.

However, BOTH are equally as important.

Of course, our Imams should teach our youth Islamic Beliefs, Seerah, Islamic manners, how to live an Islamic life etc etc…yet MPAC seem to totally dismiss its importance and think that political lobbying is the be all and end all.

From what I’ve seen MPAC members are very politically active and are articulate, dynamic speakers…however they seem to be very liberal in the way they choose to live their life.

Obviously I can’t speak on behalf of all of them, I only personally know an uncle of mine who’s involved with MPAC and a bunch of his friends (who are the main guys behind MPAC)…

Knowing how one should live their life as a God-Fearing Muslim is equally if not more important then politically lobbying….so MPAC shouldn’t really diss our Islamic Leaders who are trying to pass on the true teachings of Islam to our youth.....Imams arent always "sleeping", they too are working hard.

Wasalaam

Sajid Iqbal — Tue, 2 Aug 2005 - 09:49

salaam

did anyone watch newsnight yesterday, Asghar Bukhari from MPAC was on with MP Khalid Mahmood,,,,they had a good argument....
it wasnt as good as i hoped...
some points made by MPAC were good but others not so... it just seemed like a squabble between the two.

the report before the debate was shocking, interviews of two former al muhajiroun guys, now known as al gurbaah...they were just ridiculous saying 7/7 was good, allowed, british people are a legitimate target etc...these people are sick....

so what do you people think?

Are MPAC the best we have to represent us on the media?

wasalaam

Beast — Tue, 2 Aug 2005 - 10:45

[quote="TheRevivalEditor"]

Are MPAC the best we have to represent us on the media?

[/quote]

MPAC are the best we have on the media. No-one else delivers such a coherent message as clearly as MPAC. All other Muslim representatives either have broken English or don't know what they're talking about.

They are getting better with each media appearence. But last night was a bit of a squabble. Both Khalid Mahmood and Asghar Bukhari wanted to talk about HT but the presenter wanted to focus on the group in the report.

MuslimSisLilSis — Tue, 2 Aug 2005 - 12:42

[quote="irfan"][quote="TheRevivalEditor"]

Are MPAC the best we have to represent us on the media?

[/quote]

MPAC are the best we have on the media. No-one else delivers such a coherent message as clearly as MPAC. All other Muslim representatives either have broken English or don't know what they're talking about.

.[/quote]

I agree

I have not come across better, dynamic speakers-and its tru that most knowldgeble speakers speak broken English

I'm more then happy to allow them to represent Muslims

Sajid Iqbal — Fri, 5 Aug 2005 - 16:36

salaam

Mpac are great but stuff i dont agree with:

they come on TV and shout :
THE GOVERNMENT NEEDS TO TEACH MUSLIMS DEMOCRACY IN THE MOSQUES

THE IMAMS NEED TO BE TAUGHT DEMOCRACY

THEY CUSS THE IMAMS ON LIVE TV..WHICH DOESNT ACHIEVE ANYTHING

THEY CUSS MUSLIM GROUPS AND INDIVIDUALS ALL THE TIME...THEN THEY DEFEND THE LIKES OF H.T. :shock:

they need to be more constructive and toned down.....and realsie we dont help from the government to improve our mosques, imams etc..that is the responsibility of the Muslim community.....

wasalaam

wasalaam

yuit — Fri, 5 Aug 2005 - 17:12

I have to agree with Ed on this one. They have their good point and the main member always construct a good agrument. But like all these other groups they in the end going to fail for one main reason. Any effective group is going to have too go through the mosque as that is the centre of the community, no matter if the mosque is very effective or not. You can not expect to go against the mosque and still expect to get widespread support from the community even if you speaking the truth. When HT first came about they were allow in most mosques and that when they got alot of members ans success, but as soon as they lost the support of the mosque, they have struggled.

yuit — Fri, 5 Aug 2005 - 17:26

HT get noticed, but it doesn't really mean anything. Because if the solution doesn't seem possible, people will lose hope with a group, like HT and the Khalifah, anyone agreed they doing a good thing, but not many people think they can actually put it off, and they lose people support after a while. No one perfect, but if you go round critising everyone, it certainly gives the people the impression that they think they are. It much better to work within then from the outside.

Beast — Fri, 5 Aug 2005 - 23:40

[quote="TheRevivalEditor"]salaam

Mpac are great but stuff i dont agree with:

they come on TV and shout :
THE GOVERNMENT NEEDS TO TEACH MUSLIMS DEMOCRACY IN THE MOSQUES

[/quote]

The statement about gov teaching democracy in mosques was only on one interview. I admit I did find it strange that Asghar Bukhari would say that. I think what he meant to say was that the gov needs to encourage mosques to promote a 'democratic culture', therefore allowing Muslim communities to have an effective voice.

[quote="TheRevivalEditor"]

THE IMAMS NEED TO BE TAUGHT DEMOCRACY

[/quote]

Imams being taught democracy is no bad thing. Imams need to understand all the options available to their congregation when encouraging dawah, jihad, etc.

[quote="TheRevivalEditor"]

THEY CUSS THE IMAMS ON LIVE TV..WHICH DOESNT ACHIEVE ANYTHING

[/quote]

I don't think any member of MPAC has used offensive language to describe imams.

If anything MPAC 'cuss' mosque committees. It is mosque committees who run mosques and decide what kind of imams to hire. Committees usually hire pliable imams who refuse to speak out against the corruption that often goes on in mosque committees. Mosque committees often missappropriate funds that could be better used to make Muslims more politically, socially and economically active.

Imams realise the need to 'liberate' mosques from these largely unrepresentative committees. I suspect many imams welcome the kinds of reforms that MPAC envisages.

[quote="TheRevivalEditor"]
THEY CUSS MUSLIM GROUPS AND INDIVIDUALS ALL THE TIME...THEN THEY DEFEND THE LIKES OF H.T. :shock:
[/quote]

All Muslim organisations are more or less 'unelected'. Muslim leaders are far less 'elected'. But if these orgs and leaders are to claim to represent and speak for Muslims then they must be held accountable. That is what MPAC endeavours to do. MPAC holds Muslim orgs and leaders to account.

MPAC encourage British Muslim involvement in politics. HT discourage British Muslims from involvement in politics. MPAC and HT are ideologically opposed.

MPAC are defending HT against a gov ban. MPAC do not agree with what HT say but they defend HT's right to say it.

[quote="TheRevivalEditor"]
they need to be more constructive and toned down.....and realsie we dont help from the government to improve our mosques, imams etc..that is the responsibility of the Muslim community.....
[/quote]

If improving mosques is the responsiblity of the Muslim community then the Muslim community must ensure that its mosques are run effectively.

Any [u]real[/u] help from the gov should be welcomed.

yuit — Fri, 5 Aug 2005 - 23:49

One of the main problems Mpac will face will be that many people will percieve that they get their ideas primary from the West and then look at what Islam say about it, they never really put a good argument on why voting ain't haraam and rather focus on what muslims could get out of it (worldly desires).

They will have much more success with muslims who ain't practicing then the praticing one. They will get most of their success at Uni I think, they will struggle in the community. they could really do with having some scholar on their side.

Beast — Sat, 6 Aug 2005 - 00:18

[quote="kash"]One of the main problems Mpac will face will be that many people will percieve that they get their ideas primary from the West and then look at what Islam say about it, they never really put a good argument on why voting ain't haraam and rather focus on what muslims could get out of it (worldly desires).

They will have much more success with muslims who ain't practicing then the praticing one. They will get most of their success at Uni I think, they will struggle in the community. they could really do with having some scholar on their side.[/quote]

Who is the community anyway? Roughly speaking there are our foreign-born elders and then there is the British-born youth. The generation of our elders is somewhat wedded to the ideals and cultures of the 'homeland'. But if we are to prgress as citizens of this country then we need to able interact with this society. We cannot be isolationist and silent. We need to work out a method of functioning in this country that is not counter to our religion.

Whether something is Eastern or Western doesn't make it good or bad. We should learn from the 'West' just as we should learn from the generation of our elders.

Many scholars put arguments forward to say why voting isn't haraam. It is largely the radical fringe which rejects voting.

What worldly desires do MPAC focus on? One of their primary aims is the liberation of Palestine. Is this worldly desire? MPAC aim to counter the infleuence of the Zionist lobby. Is this worldly desire?

To say that MPAC will have more of an impact with non-practicing Muslims rather than practicing Muslims is a massive generalisation.

yuit — Sat, 6 Aug 2005 - 10:39

The Community is where the consesus is build. I see it in my community, the mosque always give the backing to the labour candidate and he nearly always win, this year we had quite a few people either stating voting haraam or vote Cons, but in the end Labour got the most votes, why because most of the committee member of the mosque have a lot of influence over the community due too the years of help they have given them. So standing outside the mosque trying to state something, isn’t alway going to work, which is why MPAC had very little impact in this last general election.

I also all from learning from the West, but it need to be done on an Islamic basis first. The argument we normally hear, is look at the jews and what they were able to achieve we need to do the same which is the worldly thinking I going on about. Don’t have a problem with the main cause, it just need to be put forward better. This is one of the problems, with group like HT, they bring the Islamic point of view across first and then the point they want to make, MPAC IMO don’t do this. Making out that only the radical fringe don’t believe in voting is a typical problem, Looking at the argument on this forum and in general, the people who put forward the argument that we shouldn’t vote, IMO did a much better job then the one you said we should. Plus apart from the MCB scholars, I personally didn’t hear too much scholar mentioning voting, infact I heard on Islam Channel more scholar were actually against it.

To interact with the wider community doesn’t mean we have to change. IMO the elder intergrated a lot considering that they did not attend schools and the purpose they came too was work. I personally don’t have too much of a problem with what MPAC do or what they want to acheive, but as I said the method they use will IMO cause more harm then good, if they actually intergrated more into the muslims community then they will have more of a basis to make their points, they would also realise what is required to gain the attention of the community, which at the moment seem to be a carbon copy of what HT do with little success. Take out that Asghar bloke from the group and they have very little going for them. But this is just my personal opinion

MuslimSisLilSis — Sat, 6 Aug 2005 - 13:28

[quote="kash"] Take out that Asghar bloke from the group and they have very little going for them. But this is just my personal opinion[/quote]

Thats tru

he's the best-but the only one who's always in the spotlight

(mainly cos he has the most free time on his hands)

but its tru that MPAC need support of Mosques which they cant do if they cuss Imams too much

HT has lost support of mosques and see how they suffer

yuit — Sun, 7 Aug 2005 - 23:59

His speech kind of confuse the event for me. the first two follow a certain line, then after his speech everyone speech was kind of contradicting each other. Abdul Hakin Quick talk struck the best balance in my opinion, MPAC are 100% political and refer very few point back too islam apart from the helping the muslims ummah out. Which is ok, as long as they don't attempt to make out they are a authority over islam.

Sirus — Mon, 8 Aug 2005 - 00:47

and that is why i have joined them as of today. never heard of them before this thread....but they impressed me, and are more about raising political and social awareness rather than a religious group. i couldnt see anything major bad in them, and they gave free t-shirts so hey, why not join! 😛

Sajid Iqbal — Mon, 8 Aug 2005 - 10:16

salaam

MPAC are cool, Asghar Bukhari's talk at the Unity conference was excellent..best one of teh day i think, rest were wishy washy...

i had a good chat with Asghar Bukhari and few of their other members...

we mainly agree with each others work, and have agreed to work together as much as we can...Asghar Bukhari was handing out The Revivals aswell, with his leaflet inside them- now thast what i call unity 😃

wasalaam

Asghar Bukhari — Thu, 5 Jan 2006 - 02:26

I can't answer many of the questions on this forum as I would like too, as its late and time is short. Have mainly logged on to say "Well done to all the Muslims who support the Revival" and keep it up.

As an offer of support from the MPAC team send us a banner to the info@mpacuk.org account and we will put it on the site for free to kick start the magazine - thats the least we can do.

Good luck! and remember many of the posts I read hear seemed to think Islam and politics were two different things - they are not! Politics in todays world is jihad - and Jihad is fard! - never forget that! - dont cry when Iran and then Pakistan is bombed when you did nothing to stop it - your enemies are not sleeping and debating, the are acting, see: http://www.mpacuk.org/content/view/1263/103/

And for those who do not understand why we criticise the Mosques read : http://www.mpacuk.org/content/view/4/1262/103/

Anyway - may Allah bless the jihad and those who strive to defend Islam. And that includes the revival team. One of the few magazines that actually have the guts to tell the Muslims the truth without selling us out.

ws

Asghar
MPACUK

Medarris — Thu, 5 Jan 2006 - 15:02

Jihad is the jihad of the battlefield. MashaALLAH the work of MPAC is good and appreciated but deceiving people and calling your lobbying and media meetings etc as jihad is not on.

Whenever the call for jihad was made, the Sahabah Karaam came out with their swords, they never came out with the pen to write diplomatic letters, or ploughs to till barren land, or come out with placards and leaflets saying be more politically active. The jihad is the battlefield.

MashaALLAH the work of MPAC has good and bad in it. But abusing the masaajid and imams is not the way. The honour of the masjid must be maintained.

Btw TOTALLY agree with you shaming that Lord Patel. That kinda stuff is excellent.

*DUST* — Thu, 5 Jan 2006 - 15:33

[quote="Asghar Bukhari"]I can't answer many of the questions on this forum as I would like too, as its late and time is short. Have mainly logged on to say "Well done to all the Muslims who support the Revival" and keep it up.

As an offer of support from the MPAC team send us a banner to the info@mpacuk.org account and we will put it on the site for free to kick start the magazine - thats the least we can do.

Good luck! and remember many of the posts I read hear seemed to think Islam and politics were two different things - they are not! Politics in todays world is jihad - and Jihad is fard! - never forget that! - dont cry when Iran and then Pakistan is bombed when you did nothing to stop it - your enemies are not sleeping and debating, the are acting, see: http://www.mpacuk.org/content/view/1263/103/

And for those who do not understand why we criticise the Mosques read : http://www.mpacuk.org/content/view/4/1262/103/

Anyway - may Allah bless the jihad and those who strive to defend Islam. And that includes the revival team. One of the few magazines that actually have the guts to tell the Muslims the truth without selling us out.

ws

Asghar
MPACUK[/quote]
salaam, dunno if ul come back to this forum again, if not hopefully irfan or someone will answer my Qs:

wots the deal with Nazir Ahmed (i refuse to use the 'l' word wen referring to a man :?)? as in is he a 'goodie' or a 'baddie' wen it comes to representing Islam in Parliament? (i'm always confusing him with that Patel dude who clashed with MPAC outside a mosque...)

Beast — Thu, 5 Jan 2006 - 16:52

Someone asked about the use of the title 'Lord' at MICS. The answer given was that it was OK because it is a wordly title. It does not assume any 'godly' authority.

As for whether Lord Nazir is a 'goody' or a 'baddy', that's a difficult question.

For one thing, it's very difficult to get that far into the system without being a bit dodgy. A certain forum member [u][b][i]seems[/i][/b][/u] to know a bit about him but refuses to tell us. He's certainly not as bad as Khalid Mahmood or Shahid Malik though.

From what I've heard him say he is genuinely moderate IMO.