Human evolution

You —

This is something I have commented on the past - especially the idea of "devolution" - what if over time instead of improving, we would be getting worse?

Today I have come across a Slashdot story in a similar vein:

The history of evolutionary studies has been dogged by the almost irresistible idea that evolution leads to greater complexity, to animals that are more advanced than their predecessor, yet the existence of the Boskops argues otherwise — that humans with big brains, and perhaps great intelligence, occupied a substantial piece of southern Africa in the not very distant past, and that they eventually gave way to smaller-brained, possibly less advanced Homo sapiens — that is, ourselves.

Their average iq has been estimated at 149 (the current average is 100)

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tom (not verified) — Mon, 4 Jan 2010 - 22:25

why should i? noor means dawn a name often adopted by a recent revert whatever, muslims make up a tiny % of the population, since you seem to have no intelligent contribution to make, be silent. we the culturally euroropean non muslim majority are fed up with the attitude of mulims in the uk to us. non-mulims show some respect and there is the every chance that you will be able to continue with your strange cult in england

enjoy your jihad

TPOS — Mon, 4 Jan 2010 - 22:51

😂 wow!

have u ever thought about actually taking in what you read or listening to what someones saying?

Noor — Mon, 4 Jan 2010 - 23:19

[quote=tom]why should i? noor means dawn a name often adopted by a recent revert whatever, muslims make up a tiny % of the population, since you seem to have no intelligent contribution to make, be silent. we the culturally euroropean non muslim majority are fed up with the attitude of mulims in the uk to us. non-mulims show some respect and there is the every chance that you will be able to continue with your strange cult in england

enjoy your jihad[/quote]

if you are so fed up with muslims then why are you posting on a muslim forum?

you love us really.

You — Mon, 4 Jan 2010 - 23:32

[quote=tom]the opposition to darwin is religious is it not?[/quote]

Not on this forum. and when it is a religious opposition, it is mainly focussed in US Christian denominations.

There are a vast majority of Muslims who also oppose aspects of the theory of evolution (natural selection does not equal inter-species evolution, though it can encompass it.), when the majority argue against it, I doubt it is argued against from a strictly dogmatic point of view - the main one is emotional "are you saying I am descended from apes? HOW DARE YOU"

If you really read Dawud's post, I think it is a good question, while also thinking that there will be ways around it. DNA/RNA and recent unsequencing has thrown up a lot of questions that are as yet unanswered. why do humans contain so few protein coding genes - less than a quarter of what was expected and far fewer than what many plant life contain.

If this was a strictly dogmatic question, there would be no muslims accepting natural selection/evolution as possible (refer to the earlier absolutism we touched on in some other topic), but there are and they have not been condemned as apostates - they live freely amongst the Muslim community.

RI_RS — Mon, 4 Jan 2010 - 23:45

[[I fully agree with Noor on the Tom thing now. Enough, it's boring and disruptive =/

Either be nice or leave us to 'enjoy our jihad' in peace. See what i did there? ;] ]]

On topic. Can't you be a theist and believe in evolution in that God could be controlling the evolution process?

But then, if you are, is that saying God is fallible because he created things that need improving and ALSO

As in, why couldn't he make them all at once, why did it take steps?

You — Tue, 5 Jan 2010 - 00:19

[quote=MakeMeRawr_6TeenF]Can't you be a theist and believe in evolution in that God could be controlling the evolution process?[/quote]]

A theist can believe in evolution and that god created the process.

[quote]But then, if you are, is that saying God is fallible because he created things that need improving and ALSO[/quote]

No, maybe what came first was also perfect?
[quote]As in, why couldn't he make them all at once, why did it take steps?[/quote]

Over the millennia the earth's environment has changed and its hospitability to different forms of life has adapted over time, so if everything was thrown into a melting pot, the animals that find life hospitable today would very possibly not have survived.

Dawud — Tue, 5 Jan 2010 - 20:36

[quote=tom]i notice that you did not respond to my points re fossils and the cambrian explosion[/quote]
Yup, heard of fossils and the Cambrian explosion, when there was an 'explosion' in the number of species, no?

Excuse me for being thick, but could you tell me a bit more about what you were getting at?

tom (not verified) — Wed, 6 Jan 2010 - 00:59

[quote=You][quote=tom]the opposition to darwin is religious is it not?[/quote]

Not on this forum. and when it is a religious opposition, it is mainly focussed in US Christian denominations. religion has no business meddling in science

There are a vast majority of Muslims who also oppose aspects of the theory of evolution (natural selection does not equal inter-species evolution, though it can encompass it.), when the majority argue against it, I doubt it is argued against from a strictly dogmatic point of view - the main one is emotional "are you saying I am descended from apes? HOW DARE YOU"[/quote]

I did not say that for fear of being sued by the apes the theory is that both developed from a common ancestor millions ofyears ago yet another muslim that has never heard of fossils and prefers to believe thet he was made by an invisible being from clay so that the invisible being would be worshipped WHY DOES God WANT/NEED TO BE WORSHIPPED?

Ya'qub — Wed, 6 Jan 2010 - 02:33

[quote=tom] WHY DOES God WANT/NEED TO BE WORSHIPPED?
[/quote]

You are a Christian if I'm not very much mistaken. Can I ask you about Christianity please?

Why do you pray?
Do you pray in the same way as Jesus (peace be upon him) prayed?
Who did Jesus (p.b.u.h.) pray to?
Do you believe Jesus (p.b.u.h.) is God in a human body? Or the Son of God? Or both? Or neither?

Because it all seems very confusing and unnecessarily complicated to me.

Thanks 🙂

tom (not verified) — Wed, 6 Jan 2010 - 12:50

[quote=Ya'qub][quote=tom] WHY DOES God WANT/NEED TO BE WORSHIPPED?
[/quote]

You are a Christian if I'm not very much mistaken. Can I ask you about Christianity please?

yes you are very much mistaken - typical response from a muslim living in a religo-centric world.
Why do you pray? who says i do?
Do you pray in the same way as Jesus (peace be upon him) prayed? no
Who did Jesus (p.b.u.h.) pray to? his fsther and "our father" he said
Do you believe Jesus (p.b.u.h.) is God in a human body? Or the Son of God? Or both? Or neither? dunno probably a special man who preached peace snd love, which is probably why muslims reject him

Because it all seems very confusing and unnecessarily complicated to me. so what? why does god want/need to be pray to? why assume god exists at all. if one why not many?
unfortunately you chaps are unable to accept that religion is a private matter

Thanks :)[/quote]

Dawud — Wed, 6 Jan 2010 - 13:29

[quote=tom]dunno probably a special man who preached peace snd love, which is probably why muslims reject him [/quote]
😂 What are you like?

You — Wed, 6 Jan 2010 - 13:44

@ tom -= can you PLEASE learn to quote properly? I cba fixing any more posts due to shoddy quoting. It does not take even an iota of intelligence to carry out such a simple task correctly, but it wastes my time. Time I would rather waste elsewhere.

Dawud — Wed, 6 Jan 2010 - 14:29

[quote=tom]why should i? noor means dawn a name often adopted by a recent revert whatever, muslims make up a tiny % of the population, since you seem to have no intelligent contribution to make, be silent. we the culturally euroropean non muslim majority are fed up with the attitude of mulims in the uk to us.[/quote]
I only just got that. So what you're saying is that white, British, convert Muslims are neither here nor there.

They don't count as a voice for Muslims, because we are essentially a warmongering eastern ethnicity; and they don't count as representative of their white, British roots because you think of yourself as the "culturally European non-Muslim" majority.

tom (not verified) — Wed, 6 Jan 2010 - 15:43

[quote=You]@ tom -= can you PLEASE learn to quote properly? I cba fixing any more posts due to shoddy quoting. It does not take even an iota of intelligence to carry out such a simple task correctly, but it wastes my time. Time I would rather waste elsewhere.[/quote]

it would be better for the rest of us if you learnt to type or had anything to say rather than scoring cheap shots. enjoy your jihad tom

You — Wed, 6 Jan 2010 - 15:52

It is not a cheap shot - til now I have been fixing your posts in order to make sure they are readable to others. but it gets tiring fast and takes effort since I have to scroll back to see which bits are quoted and which bits are not.

EDIT - and you are right, it is a cheap shot. I should know better.

You — Thu, 7 Jan 2010 - 01:39

Something a year old:

Poll reveals public doubts over Charles Darwin's theory of evolution

Belief in creationism is widespread in Britain, according to a new survey.

More than half of the public believe that the theory of evolution cannot explain the full complexity of life on Earth, and a "designer" must have lent a hand, the findings suggest.

...

Richard Dawkins, the evolutionary biologist and author of The God Delusion, said the findings revealed a worrying level of scientific ignorance among Britons.

In the survey, 51 per cent of those questioned agreed with the statement that "evolution alone is not enough to explain the complex structures of some living things, so the intervention of a designer is needed at key stages"

A further 40 per cent disagreed, while the rest said they did not know.

Read more @ Telegraph